Global War 1940 2nd ed.

As far as Tech there was only 6 in this game. Below the ave. This had no affect on game. Axis got to 32 points at the end of turn 6. Allies got back 2 points for taking back Hawaii to still stay at 30 and at end of turn 7 was able to hold it for the win.
If Moscow wouldnt have fallen then the Axis would of needed to get 3 more points some where else.

China got a victory city. Sweet ! pic of charts below.

After thinking the last few days on the Stg Bomber values and reading up on some history on them and the Tac Bomber we are going with a new set of values for these 2 planes next game. New stats. Just be attack changes.

Stg. Bomber

A 3d12s @4  roll of 1 no return fire and any Double 12s is a Friendly kill. First round only

This is for the bomber dropping most or all of his payload while carpet bombing first round of combat.

Tac Bomber

A @7 roll of 4 or less no return fire and only for first round of combat. Any rounds after is a normal roll of 7 or less is a hit.

Dive and Tac only carried 1 torpedo (using both versions in game) so the torpedo drop is for first round only. Any 7 or less rolls after first round count as hits do to there payload of small bombs.

Any thoughts on this as far as being close to historical ?

CWO ?

@SS:

Dive and Tac only carried 1 torpedo (using both versions in game) so the torpedo drop is for first round only. Any 7 or less rolls after first round count as hits do to there payload of small bombs.
Any thoughts on this as far as being close to historical ?
CWO ?

I’m unfortunately not any good at converting historical information (my area of interest) into A&A unit combat values, so I can’t really help out with the specific numbers in your post.  The one thing that caught my attention is this: “Dive and Tac only carried 1 torpedo (using both versions in game) so the torpedo drop is for first round only. Any 7 or less rolls after first round count as hits do to there payload of small bombs.”  This seems to imply that surface-attack planes (such as dive bombers and torpedo bombers) simultaneously carried one big weapon plus several small bombs, and that they dropped them at different times during the same mission.  That’s not correct as far as I know: they would either carry one big weapon or several small bombs, but not both at the same time, due to payload limits (and probaby weapon-attachment-point requirements).  What you could do, if you want, is to give the player the option of selecting (and announcing in advance) what weapon type a surface-attack plane carries on a specific mission, and provide numbers reflecting that weapon type.  The main WWII options would probably be:

• 1 large high-explosive bomb (useful for cratering a runway or demolishing a building, or for damaging non-armoured ships)

• 1 large armour-piercing bomb (useful for attacking bunkers on land and for damaging carriers and battleships and cruisers)

• A cluster of small or medium fragmentation bombs (useful for attacking troops and unarmoured vehicles)

• Twin pods of heavy auto-cannons (such as certain Stuka models had) or of rocket-launchers (which the Americans were fond of) for attacking tanks; hitting a tank with a large bomb was too tricky because it’s a small target, and hitting it with clusters of small bombs was ineffective against armour

• Napalm bombs (U.S. only), for use against troops and non-reinforced buildings and vehicles (including tanks)

@CWO:

@SS:

Dive and Tac only carried 1 torpedo (using both versions in game) so the torpedo drop is for first round only. Any 7 or less rolls after first round count as hits do to there payload of small bombs.
Any thoughts on this as far as being close to historical ?
CWO ?

I’m unfortunately not any good at converting historical information (my area of interest) into A&A unit combat values, so I can’t really help out with the specific numbers in your post.  The one thing that caught my attention is this: “Dive and Tac only carried 1 torpedo (using both versions in game) so the torpedo drop is for first round only. Any 7 or less rolls after first round count as hits do to there payload of small bombs.”  This seems to imply that surface-attack planes (such as dive bombers and torpedo bombers) simultaneously carried one big weapon plus several small bombs, and that they dropped them at different times during the same mission.  That’s not correct as far as I know: they would either carry one big weapon or several small bombs, but not both at the same time, due to payload limits (and probaby weapon-attachment-point requirements).  What you could do, if you want, is to give the player the option of selecting (and announcing in advance) what weapon type a surface-attack plane carries on a specific mission, and provide numbers reflecting that weapon type.  The main WWII options would probably be:

• 1 large high-explosive bomb (useful for cratering a runway or demolishing a building, or for damaging non-armoured ships)

• 1 large armour-piercing bomb (useful for attacking bunkers on land and for damaging carriers and battleships and cruisers)

• A cluster of small or medium fragmentation bombs (useful for attacking troops and unarmoured vehicles)

• Twin pods of heavy auto-cannons (such as certain Stuka models had) or of rocket-launchers (which the Americans were fond of) for attacking tanks; hitting a tank with a large bomb was too tricky because it’s a small target, and hitting it with clusters of small bombs was ineffective against armour

• Napalm bombs (U.S. only), for use against troops and non-reinforced buildings and vehicles (including tanks)

Thanks CWO again. I was basically looking for the correct history factor if I was wrong. I must have mis read the term 1 torpedo or clusters of bombs. If I give the tac or dive bomber the 1 shot with the big bomb or torpedo shot of a @7 roll of @4 or less no return shot and no more shots after 1st round, I believe the player would rather probably just choose to attack @7 something with a straight up attack number every round instead.
I’ll work on it.

We are going to try these values in next game based on history and a happy medium for the Tac-Dive Bomber. With 1 Tac-Dive Bomber representing 10 - 30 planes ea (?) will make the bomber have the 2 types of bombs on planes. New values.

Stg. Bomber
A 3d12s @4  Roll of 1 no return shot. Against ground only
                    For ea roll of 2 12s = 1 friendly kill
                    1 Round of Combat only
A 3d12s @2  Roll of 1 no return shot. Against naval only
                    1 Round of Combat only
D2
M6
C10
DF1
SBR- IC, Ports, Forts  1 d8 damage
SBR- AAA gun only. Roll of 1 kills AAA gun before it fires.

H. Bomber
A 4d12s @4  Same as Stg, Bomber above.
A 4d12s @2  Same as Stg. Bomber above.
D2
M7
C12
SBR- IC, Ports, Forts  1 d10
SBR- AAA gun only. Roll of 1 kills AAA gun before it can fire.

Tac-Dive Bomber
A7 Roll of 2 or less picks target
D4
M4
C10
DF1
SBR- Ports, Forts 1 d8 damage
SBR- AAA gun. Roll of 1-2 kills AAA gun before it can shoot.

Will give these values a shot in next game.

Hi SS,
I read about some DeHavilland mosquitoes destroying AA batteries but not about StB.

It is your game, but I feel like all your bombers can be more specialized.
Here is a few examples to explain what I mean.
That way, each purchase of unit type get a greater emphasis on a given way of tactical combat.
TcB better vs Tank or AAA.
Heavy Bombers 4 rolls at carpet bombing (more than 1 hit per round possible but only first combat round) but StB can roll each round (because they were use in tactical situation more often).

StB vs Hbombers,
Less dogfight machineguns vs more mguns (tailgunners and ballguners).
A bit usable on Tactical mission vs only for strategic targets D12 dice:
(Def 4 or 3  vs def 2)

TcB (dive and torpedoes and recon) was very useful on Carriers
Defense 4 is low and compromise defense compared to all Fgs on Carriers.

Etc.

Hes back. :-)

If u look further back in thread we had Stg bombers and tacs roll every round.
Stg bomber
A 3 d12s @2 roll of 1 no return shot double 12s = 1 friendly kill. ground and naval.
May raise the A to @3. In game Stg bomber only ave 1 hit for every 10 dice.
But naval A would stay at @2

H bomber
A 4 d12s @2  roll of 1 no return shot. Ground and naval.
D3 probably make instead of 2

Tac bomber
A7 roll of 2 or less no return shot. Ground and naval

This way, at the time I was thinking of all bombers being rewarded with all kinds of missions together. Like a happy medium.

I’m rusted about all abreviations.
My main concern is about which type should receive special features you add.
For example, I feel like StB flying lower altitude than Heavy were less subject to friendly fire casualty.

I can tweak of few things.
Stg. Bomber
A 3 d12s @2 roll of 1 no return shot.  Ground only
A 3 d12s @1 roll of 1 no return shot.  Naval only
D2
DF 1
SBR 1d8+1  IC, Air-Naval ports, rail stations and oil refineries for damage
SBR 3 d12s @2 single attack against AA gun after AA gun rolls defense first @2
Escorts and Interceptors allowed

Hvy Bomber
A 4 d12s @3 roll of 1 no return shot. For ea Double 12s 1 friendly kill. Ground only
A 3 d12s @2 roll of 1 no return shot. Naval only
D3
DF 2
SBR 1d10+1  Same as Stg. B
SBR 4 d12s @3 Same as Stg. B  Single attack on AA gun. AA gun gets first defense roll @1 if AA gun survives.

I can tweak of few things. All are D12s, except bombing damage.

Stg. Bomber
Attack 3, @2 (roll twice? for one round only?, each round?) roll of 1 no return shot (self-explanatory).  Ground only
Attack 3  @1 (one round only? each round) roll of 1 no return shot (self-explanatory).  Naval only
Defense 2
DF 1 (Dogfight?)
SBR 1d8+1  IC, Air-Naval ports, rail stations and oil refineries for damage
SBR 3, @2 (twice ?) single attack on AA gun after AA gun rolls defense first @2
Escorts and Interceptors allowed

Heavy Bomber
Attack 4 @3 (three times per round?) roll of 1 no return shot. For each Double 12s 1 friendly kill. Ground only
Attack 3 @2 (two times per round?)  roll of 1 no return shot. Naval only
Defense 3
DF 2 (Dogfight?)
SBR 1d10+1  Same as Stg. B
SBR 4, @3 (three times?) Same as Stg. B   Single attack on AA gun. AA gun gets first defense roll @1 if AA gun survives.
Escorts and Interceptors (NOT) allowed ?

I need you solve my question marks.

My first impression is that you follow a general principle that Heavy is better than Strategic bomber.
Are you sure that Heavy were more suited for Tactical missions than Medium Strategic bombers?
My rather limited understanding of all WWII bombers was that B-25 Mitchell or Twins Engines Betty (Strategic medium but not heavy bomber) were more able to bomb warships than B-24 or B-17.

B-17s were used in early battles of the Pacific with little success, notably the Battle of Coral Sea and Battle of Midway. While there, the Fifth Air Force B-17s were tasked with disrupting the Japanese sea lanes. Air Corps doctrine dictated bombing runs from high altitude, but it was soon discovered that only one percent of their bombs hit targets. However, B-17s were operating at heights too great for most A6M Zero fighters to reach, and the B-17’s heavy gun armament was more than a match for lightly protected Japanese aircraft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortress

Based on this, I would agree that Heavy have a better AA defense in Dogfight.
Also, I would tend to increase the hit capacity of StB while keeping the double dice.
For instance,
StB treated as medium bomber
Attack 4, @2 against ground unit
Attack 4, @1 against naval unit
Defense 4, @1 (against ground only). (Same single die compared to naval attack.)
Dogfight 1
SBR damage: D8+1

Heavy bomber
Attack 3, @3 against ground unit
Attack 3, @1 against naval unit
Defense 3  (against ground only). (Same single die compared to naval attack.)
Dogfight 2
SBR damage: D10+1

You are adding a lot of little details between both, it makes it harder to memorize. I know your game have plenty of various units.
From a purchasing POV, I would need a clearer line to help me make my purchase decision.

For all bombers, an attack roll of 1 makes for no return shot.
I don’t see why bombers are able to destroy AAA. This feature might be an interesting capacity.
Is it a game POV or an historical POV?

@Baron:

I can tweak of few things. All are D12s, except bombing damage.

Stg. Bomber
Attack 3, @2 ( each round ) roll of 1 no return shot (self-explanatory).  Ground only
Attack 3  @1 ( each round ) roll of 1 no return shot (self-explanatory).  Naval only
Defense 2
DF 1 (Dogfight)
SBR 1d8+1  IC, Air-Naval ports, rail stations and oil refineries for damage
SBR 3, @2 (once) single attack on AA gun after AA gun rolls defense first @2
Escorts and Interceptors allowed

Heavy Bomber
Attack 4 @3 (every round) roll of 1 no return shot. For each Double 12s 1 friendly kill. Ground only
Attack 3 @2 (every  round)  roll of 1 no return shot. Naval only
Defense 3
DF 2 (Dogfight)
SBR 1d10+1  Same as Stg. B
SBR 4, @3 (once) Same as Stg. B   Single attack on AA gun. AA gun gets first defense roll @1 if AA gun survives.
Escorts and Interceptors allowed

---

I need you solve my question marks.

My first impression is that you follow a general principle that Heavy is better than Strategic bomber.
Are you sure that Heavy were more suited for Tactical missions than Medium Strategic bombers?
This is done for simplicity for all players and sides.
My rather limited understanding of all WWII bombers was that B-25 Mitchell or Twins Engines Betty (Strategic medium but not heavy bomber) were more able to bomb warships than B-24 or B-17.

B-17s were used in early battles of the Pacific with little success, notably the Battle of Coral Sea and Battle of Midway. While there, the Fifth Air Force B-17s were tasked with disrupting the Japanese sea lanes. Air Corps doctrine dictated bombing runs from high altitude, but it was soon discovered that only one percent of their bombs hit targets. However, B-17s were operating at heights too great for most A6M Zero fighters to reach, and the B-17’s heavy gun armament was more than a match for lightly protected Japanese aircraft

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortress

Based on this, I would agree that Heavy have a better AA defense in Dogfight.
Also, I would tend to increase the hit capacity of StB while keeping the double dice.
For instance,
StB treated as medium bomber
Attack 4, @2 against ground unit
Attack 4, @1 against naval unit
Defense 4, @1 (against ground only). (Same single die compared to naval attack.)
What if the bomber is still on the ground ?
Dogfight 1
SBR damage: D8+1

Heavy bomber
Attack 3, @3 against ground unit
Attack 3, @1 against naval unit
Attack 3  
Is this suppose to be Attack 3, @1 ground only ?
Dogfight 2
SBR damage: D10+1

You are adding a lot of little details between both, it makes it harder to memorize. I know your game have plenty of various units.
From a purchasing POV, I would need a clearer line to help me make my purchase decision.

For all bombers, an attack roll of 1 makes for no return shot.
This is based on some bombers going futher out from front lines and bombing on enemy.
I don’t see why bombers are able to destroy AAA. This feature might be an interesting capacity.
Is it a game POV or an historical POV?

Why not ? They bomb everything else.

Are your bomber value suggestions for 1 round only or all rounds of combat ?

After playing a game with new stats and digging futher into history and seeing that bombers should get only a 1 round attack due to dropping all there payload or most of it right away on an attack. And I had to come up with a new stat for the Tac and Dive bomber do to there either having 1 torpedo bomb or clusters of smaller bombs. I will need to add to game now Tac bombers and Naval dive bombers instead of using the tac bomber for both ground attacks and naval attacks. So now the question is do to history I need new stats for Stg., H. bombers for 1 round of attack only and tacs.
Also Japan is not getting H. Bombers in game. They only built 4 and never made it in war late.

@SS:

We are going to try these values in next game based on history and a happy medium for the Tac-Dive Bomber. With 1 Tac-Dive Bomber representing 10 - 30 planes ea (?) will make the bomber have the 2 types of bombs on planes. New values.

Stg. Bomber
A 3d12s @4  Roll of 1 no return shot. Against ground only
                     For ea roll of 2 12s = 1 friendly kill
                     1 Round of Combat only
A 3d12s @2  Roll of 1 no return shot. Against naval only
                     1 Round of Combat only
D2
M6
C10
DF1
SBR- IC, Ports, Forts  1 d8 damage
SBR- AAA gun only. Roll of 1 kills AAA gun before it fires.

H. Bomber
A 4d12s @4  Same as Stg, Bomber above.
A 4d12s @2  Same as Stg. Bomber above.
D2
M7
C12
SBR- IC, Ports, Forts  1 d10
SBR- AAA gun only. Roll of 1 kills AAA gun before it can fire.

Tac-Dive Bomber
A7 Roll of 2 or less picks target
D4
M4
C10
DF1
SBR- Ports, Forts 1 d8 damage
SBR- AAA gun. Roll of 1-2 kills AAA gun before it can shoot.

Will give these values a shot in next game.

This is what I had for next game based on history but I know some of it probably aint right.

Heres some idea stats for now. We can tweak.

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 4d12s @1 naval only every round
D 4d12s @1 against ground only ? not a fan of this.
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA gun D@2

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 3d12s @1 naval only every round
D3
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA gun D@1

Tac Bomber
A8 1 single bomb drop only. First round only. Can pick target (AAA gun too)  with no return shot. Then for the next rounds of combat Attack @5
D4
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)

Naval Dive Bomber
A8 1 single bomb or torpedo drop first round only. Can pick target with a no return shot.
Then for the next rounds of combat Attack @5
D3
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)

Naval Fighter
A7 1 single torpedo drop first round only. Can pick target with a no return shot.
Then for next rounds of combat Attack @5
D4

All stats represent all different plane groups doing different attacks. Still think Med H Bombers should just get a 1 round of combat do to payload drops being dropped all at once. If theres enough in history to change it let me know.

Japan doesnt receive H. Bombers.

This has been updated

Tactical bombers (Mosquito) were better than Torpedo bombers (Devastator or Avenger) at defending.

IMO, naval dive bombers (Dauntless or Helldiver) are quite similar to Tactical bombers for ground attack.

The main difference is between Tactical vs Torpedo bombers.

@SS:

Heres some idea stats for now. We can tweak.

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 4d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1 against ground only
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA gun D@2

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 3d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA gun D@1

Tac Bomber
A71 single bomb drop only. First round only. Can pick target (AAA gun too)  with no return shot. Then for the next rounds of combat Attack @6
D 5
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)

Naval Dive Bomber
A7 1 single bomb or torpedo drop first round only. Can pick target with a no return shot.
Then for the next rounds of combat Attack @5
D 5
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)

Naval Fighter
A6 1 single torpedo drop first round only. Can pick target with a no return shot.
Then for next rounds of combat Attack @5
D5

All stats represent all different plane groups doing different attacks. Still think Med H Bombers should just get a 1 round of combat do to payload drops being dropped all at once. If theres enough in history to change it let me know.

Japan doesnt receive H. Bombers.

This has been updated

Naval Fighter and bomber had a low defense factor.
I only played with Fg A6 D8 C10 or Fg A4 D4 C6, so do you usually play with such low defense factor?

I like both attack of StB or Heavy on AAA.

On Bombers defense, I only think about ground combat, so planes can be hit too.
StB defense seems high, but to me TcB were A6 D6.

I don’t see bombers on defense as being shotdown on airfields.
But rather being used on tactical bombing mission which don’t have clear objectives and targets as on offense.
It is easier to say : to german bombers bomb Stalingrad (while on offence) than bombing soviet units crossing Volga river pretty much everywhere (while on defence).

@Baron:

Naval Fighter and bomber had a low defense factor.
I only played with Fg A6 D8 C10 or Fg A4 D4 C6, so do you usually play with such low defense factor?

The low defense is based on what u said in previous post. Also the defense values were all based on cost that we discussed for awhile last year.
I like both attack of StB or Heavy on AAA.

On Bombers defense, I only think about ground combat, so planes can be hit too.
StB defense seems high, but to me TcB were A6 D6.

This was based on what you wrote in previous post.

I don’t see bombers on defense as being shotdown on airfields.
But rather being used on tactical bombing mission which don’t have clear objectives and targets as on offense.
It is easier to say : to german bombers bomb Stalingrad (while on offence) than bombing soviet units crossing Volga river pretty much everywhere (while on defence).

I got no problem if u have some values to post.
Stg bomber
D 2 d12s @1
Tac bomber
D6
Dive bomber
D6
Naval fig
D5

This what u mean then

@SS:

@SS:

Heres some idea stats for now. We can tweak.

Med. Bomber
A 4d12s @2 ground only every round
A 4d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1 against ground only
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 +1 damage
AA gun D@2
C10

H. Bomber
A 3d12s @3 ground only every round
A 3d12s @1 naval only every round
D 2d12s @1
Dog Fight @2
SBR 1d10 +1 damage
AA gun D@1
C12

Tac Bomber
A7 . Roll of 4 or less can pic target with a return shot.
D 5
Dog Fight @1
SBR 1d8 damage (Air - Naval ports, Train Stations and Oil Derricks)
C10

Naval Dive Bomber
A7 A roll of 4 or less can pick target with a return shot.
D 5
SBR 1d8 damage ( Air - Naval ports, Oil Derricks)
C10

Naval Fighter
A5 A roll of 3 or less can pick target with a return shot.
D5
C10

Fig
A6
D6
M5
C11
or
A6
or just leave it alone.

Japan doesnt receive H. Bombers.

This has been updated

As I said earlier, I’m a bit rusted.
I need to get the whole picture within your gameframe.
I will do my homework and read more of earlier posts.

I agree, only naval fighter and naval bomber for carrier.
But, all naval planes can land on TTs but not the reverse right?

It is interesting to balance these 6 types of planes.
TcB and Fg
Naval bomber and naval Fg
Heavy and Medium Bombers

What is the average income for Germany and US in your game?

@Baron:

As I said earlier, I’m a bit rusted.
I need to get the whole picture within your gameframe.
I will do my homework and read more of earlier posts.

I agree, only naval fighter and naval bomber for carrier.
But, all naval planes can land on TTs but not the reverse right?

It is interesting to balance these 6 types of planes.
TcB and Fg
Naval bomber and naval Fg
Heavy and Medium Bombers

No naval bombers or figs on land unless they had the option of doing both.