Perhaps keep it at 5IPC but make it roll @2 but only for up to 2 planes? Reduces the wildness of the swings it causes slightly.
Perhaps keep it at 5IPC but make it roll @2 but only for up to 2 planes? Reduces the wildness of the swings it causes slightly.
I read somewhere in this forum, a long time ago that Airplanes casualty due to AA fire was 10%.
Rising AAA to 33% odds might not be agreeable to a lot of people here.
Even the 1/6 was already higher odds than historical fact.
@Arthur:
The circumstance comes up almost every single game: a final raid on Moscow. Usually you know that the Germans have one or two rounds to do the attack and then have to return their planes to western Europe to defend against Allied invaders. Russia must choose how to spend their final 10-15 PUs. The choice might only change the outcome by a couple percentage points, but why not take the best odds.
the best odds are going to be with purchasing an infantry, not an AA
unless you are so badly outgunned that that final stand for Moscow is a 1-round massacre.
Interesting how one little poll about something so seemingly insignificant as AAA becomes a multi-page debate about the merits or lack thereof using calculations, probabilities and psychological warfare… all over a AAA battery.
I think AA artillery should get at least 1@1 each no matter how few planes are attacking. Therefore, 3 AA on a territory being attacked by 2 planes will still get 3@1 defense.
I’ve yet to purchase any. I like AA but only use what’s available at the start of the game.
Interesting how one little poll about something so seemingly insignificant as AAA becomes a multi-page debate about the merits or lack thereof using calculations, probabilities and psychological warfare… all over a AAA battery.
Seems everyone has at one point looked at the AAA unit and a fleet of enemy planes looming and wondered it wasn’t particularly useful even in that situation.
@Baron:
Perhaps keep it at 5IPC but make it roll @2 but only for up to 2 planes? Reduces the wildness of the swings it causes slightly.
I read somewhere in this forum, a long time ago that Airplanes casualty due to AA fire was 10%.
Rising AAA to 33% odds might not be agreeable to a lot of people here.
Even the 1/6 was already higher odds than historical fact.
Two comments to that. Firstly, it’s a game. Shouldn’t we be talking about what makes a better one? Secondly, can’t you argue that the AAA are more densely packed than they were in history?
@Baron:
Perhaps keep it at 5IPC but make it roll @2 but only for up to 2 planes? Reduces the wildness of the swings it causes slightly.
I read somewhere in this forum, a long time ago that Airplanes casualty due to AA fire was 10%.
Rising AAA to 33% odds might not be agreeable to a lot of people here.
Even the 1/6 was already higher odds than historical fact.Two comments to that. Firstly, it’s a game. Shouldn’t we be talking about what makes a better one? Secondly, can’t you argue that the AAA are more densely packed than they were in history?
You can keep a similar odds per AAA unit if it cost 3 and is able to shot @1 each round against up to 1 plane.
At 6 IPCs you can buy 2 AAAs, so you can roll against 2 planes.
That would make it an extremely powerful unit in a big battle at the end of the game.
That is the question.
1/6 to destroy a 12 IPCs = 2 IPCs damage on average or 1.667 it is a 10 IPCs Fg.
2/6 to destroy a 3 IPCs = 1 IPC damage on average.
Infantry can also attack at 2 when paired to Artillery. (1/6*3 IPC = .5 IPC + 1/2 *.5= Avg .75)
Still not considering heavier damage, 4 to 6 IPCs, on other ground units.
With no offensive capacity, AAA seems to have an average defense value compared to Infantry.
It is clearly not overpowered.
And, if you have less planes than AAA number, you roll up to the number of planes attacking.
The consolation is that at 3 IPCs you can sacrifice it as a cannon fodder.
That would make it an extremely powerful unit in a big battle at the end of the game.
How many combat rounds do you have in such big battle?
5? 6 at most?
A hundred and thirty units against hundred units takes on average 3.2 combat rounds.
Probably at the end of second round you would have taken all of them as casualty.
This thread is a good example of how people can rely on the battle calculator too much. Maybe in some cases the infantry over the AAA will be a mathematical edge, but taking down an extra plane before the battle even begins is a game changer, and in many cases it’s worth the risk.
This thread is a good example of how people can rely on the battle calculator too much.
So that’s what you guys are calling my brain these days…
This thread is a good example of how people can rely on the battle calculator too much. Maybe in some cases the infantry over the AAA will be a mathematical edge, but taking down an extra plane before the battle even begins is a game changer, and in many cases it’s worth the risk.
Like I said.
It is the only unit which rely on gambling and psychological factor to be really interesting.
This thread is a good example of how people can rely on the battle calculator too much.
So that’s what you guys are calling my brain these days…
Haha exactly! :lol:
100% right Baron. You made a great point
This thread is a good example of how people can rely on the battle calculator too much. Maybe in some cases the infantry over the AAA will be a mathematical edge, but taking down an extra plane before the battle even begins is a game changer, and in many cases it’s worth the risk.
From my point of view, this thread is a good example of how an emotional bias can override hard numbers in normally clear-thinking individuals.
@Young:
This might not help get more into the games, but a universal across the board discount on AA artillery should be in order… 4 IPCs I would say.
It was 6 until I talked to Larry about it and suggested he lower it to 5.
I thought if I proposed 4 I would be totally ignored. They should be 4, yes, but be glad they’re not 6
the best odds are going to be with purchasing an infantry, not an AA
This is not always correct. It is not actually very rare that optimal defense will include AAA purchase. And yes I’m talking about actually using battle calculators and looking at % chance of winning. First of all, AAA are not always firing at fighters with 3 attack value - sometimes it could be at tacs or bombers. I have had various actual in-game situations where AAA was the optimal defense purchase, and I only play about 10 games a year.
That said, I think the designer of the game made this huge change (from indestructible single AA units that have unlimited firing capability, and could change hands) without fully researching all the ramifications. For example, he merely left the cost at 6, at which cost they should almost never be purchased.
So if you want AAA to be another more common purchase option, then just houserule their cost to 4. Simple
Or abolish built in AAA in Industrial complexes and bases as it was in classic. Or both.
