@SubmersedElk:
- The Allies can’t seem to put a fleet anywhere effective against overwhelming Axis air power.
If the US goes Pacific, it has more than sufficient fleet after two turns of building to cause Japan to be very, very cautious. Japan winning depends on speed, and if it must be cautious it cannot be speedy. If the US goes Atlantic, making minimal purchases in the Pacific to ensure that Japan cannot win while the US concentrates in Europe, it takes two turns of building to create a US fleet that Germany cannot destroy except by Pyrrhic victory.
@SubmersedElk:
- Neither Russia nor UK-Pac nor China can defend itself effectively against straightforward Axis build-land-units-and-advance strategies so both will inevitably fall.
Those powers are not intended to be able to stand alone. If the other Allies do not provide help, they will fall. That being the case, they can be played well and cause Germany and Japan to lose a lot of momentum to kill (or, in the case of China, bypass), or they can be played poorly and fall quickly.
As China: don’t lose the Chinese fighter, stack it with tons of infantry, keep it out of range of Japan’s air force, and use the map to your advantage to slow down the Japanese. A gain of a single turn is usually enough to cause the Axis to inevitably lose.
As Russia: turtle and build infantry. Demand that the other Allies send you fighters to assist in the defense of Moscow. Do not try to hold both Leningrad and Moscow – you will just lose vital units you need for the defense of Moscow. Once Germany attacks, the forces in Leningrad must start retreating. Do not leave speedbumps unless it is crucial that Italy and Germany not be able to blitz. If Germany does Sea Lion, attack! The only way for the Axis to win in Europe after Sea Lion is for Russia to not attack.
@SubmersedElk:
- Axis lines of supply at all the major conflict points are much shorter than Allied supply lines. Axis therefore can see what the Allies are going to do far enough ahead of time to build a counter.
This is true at the start of the game, and for the first five or so turns. After that, this Axis advantage disappears because its supply lines are longer and more vulnerable, the Allies have shorter supply lines, and both powers frantically play the logistics game to keep their major conflict points from being lost.
If the Axis has not won by turn ten or so, the Axis has generally lost barring some fatal mistake by the Allies.
@SubmersedElk:
- Games eventually get to a “midgame” point where Russia and UK Pac are ready to fall, Axis has equalized income and nearly equalized material, and the Allies still have no strong counterattack, after which it’s just a matter of playing out the Axis win.
Absolutely not true unless the Allied players have given up and are only making a halfhearted effort.
@SubmersedElk:
- UK Taranto raid (effective but even holding Africa with no additional investment doesn’t help all that much)
I absolutely disagree. Holding Africa with no additional investment allows the UK to focus on Germany more effectively, preparing forces necessary to help kill Germany and take pressure off Russia when the US enters the conflict.
@SubmersedElk:
- monomaniacal US focus on Pacific theater (no matter how much I build, Japan can always have enough fleet + air power to keep me away from Asia, even with healthy ANZAC and UK fleet units in theater helping)
You cannot win in the Pacific. However, you can not lose. If you are going Europe first, ANZAC should be building defenses and you should be continually reinforcing Hawaii. It does not matter if India falls as long as Japan cannot take Sydney and Honolulu.
@SubmersedElk:
- Atlantic dominance (takes too long to build up enough of a fleet to land anywhere, and that Denmark strait block kills counter and counter-pressure opportunities)
If you pull a few fleet elements from the Pacific, it takes two turns to build a fleet capable of surviving in the Atlantic. If Germany attacks your fleet with its air force once you arrive off the European coast, you have won in Europe because Germany has lost much of its offensive power.
@SubmersedElk:
- UK-Europe using its builds to help UK-Pac
That sounds like the Allies are putting too much emphasis on the Pacific. India is inconsequential if Japan is incapable of taking Sydney, Honolulu, and San Francisco. Yes, once India falls Japan makes it into the Middle East, but that turns out to be more of a side show for Japan because much of its fury was spent killing India.
@SubmersedElk:
I totally get that the Allies have to stall the Axis long enough to outbuild them, but common Axis play equalizes the economic advantage too fast for that to happen, while leaving Axis with better tactical position. All the while, all the strategic choices seem to belong to the Axis side (e.g. when to DOW).
Long story short, it doesn’t seem to matter what the allies do, Axis seems to have a straightforward victory every time unless they mess up badly, as the Allies had in the original game. Bids don’t seem to help; the map layout, movement rules, unit costs and strategic bombing rules all seem to conspire to give Allies nothing to hang their hats on.
What I would love to see is how a good Axis player can be beat. Every game I observe where Axis is losing, the Axis player made horrible newbie errors and appeared to lack a basic understanding of this map.
I’ve read dozens of threads in this forum trying to figure out what those missing strategies are and I’m just not seeing it. So I guess my question is: is it worth my time to pursue this map further, or is this effectively a “solved” game for the Axis side with no hope of Allied victory? Or are there some strategies out there that give hope?
The Allied players must make a simple choice: Defeat the Axis in Europe or defeat the Axis in the Pacific. The side they choose becomes their primary focus, and the focus in the other theatre is to not lose. Some folks on these forums insist that Kill Japan First is the best course of action, and others disagree. I have seen both Allied approaches work and I have seen both fail.
Once you’ve made up your mind, do not be derailed by your plan by factors that are not going to cause you to suddenly lose where you decided not to lose. If you decide Europe first, do Europe first. Time the construction of the UK fleet and loaded transports with the arrival of the US fleet so that the US can one punch Germany and the UK can punch right behind it. By US4, the US/UK in a Europe-first strat should be forcing Germany to do defensive builds. It is very hard for Germany to take Moscow this fast, especially if the Allies provide even a modicum of support to Russia (fighters for the defense of Moscow).
If you go Pacific first, build a fleet capable of taking on Japan’s fleet. Once you have outbuilt Japan, force a fleet conflict and use subs to keep Japan’s income down while you turn your focus to Europe to defeat Germany.
Marsh