@jonathan-rost Yes, although I may just have found a bunch in Mechanicsville.
G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)
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This is a unit profiles first draft for G40 Redesign, I will try to test on my boardgame.
(The finished results is posted below.)The Depth Charge sequence for Destroyer is inspired by YG’s 3G40 project.
This allows to not block Sub’s submerge (which is realistic from a ship-to-ship POV).
I also used SS long time play-tested HR, Destroyer blocking Sub’s Surprise strike on a 1:1 basis.These two abilities seem better at depicting Sub warfare with not so complex mechanic.
Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
DD A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
SS A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67)
But all other units are adjusted to keep
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13) and
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12) better in combat compared to Destroyer (0.96) but both even combat ratio based on same IPC basis (1.12).Carrier A0 D2 (0.87) still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger than OOB Carrier (0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
However, both aircraft have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.TcB A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) now gets targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, which includes submerged Subs.
Fg A2 D2 C7 (0.98) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
StB cannot be part of regular combat, but get A1 in SBR dogfight.This units profile allows a full spectrum of combat values for Naval combat:
DD A1 D1, Sub A2 D1, Fg A2 D2, TcB A3 D2, Cruiser A3 D3, BB A4 D4Now, Cruiser is taking the middle place of Destroyer in OOB roster
Of course, setup will need adjustments because of cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
However, Subs are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth Charge: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @2, only for on going combat round, up to 1 roll per submerged Submarine max.
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can Depth charge
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Transport (variant M3-4) (0.00)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundCruiser (1.13)
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Variant: M3-4, Cost 9, 1 hit, (0.89)
Shore bombardment @3
1D in Convoy SZFleet Carrier (0.00, 0.87)
Attack 0
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs (0.72, 0.94),
1 Fg & 1 TcB (0.77, 0.87),
2 TcBs (0.83, 0.79)
Air operation allowed for 1 plane, if damaged.Battleship (1.12)
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Cost 15
2 hits
Shorebombard @4
1D in Convoy SZFighter (0.98)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D2,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Can air retreat 1 adjacent TTy after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can target any land or naval enemy’s unit (excludes aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A1 D1 dmg 1D6 on AB & NB
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs
Can target submerged Subs in same combat round that Subs submerged.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy, after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Strategic Bomber (0.00/ SBR: 0.96)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 6-8 (M8 from AB for SBR only)
Cost 5
0 hit in regular combat,
SBR 1 hit, A1 D0, dmg 1D6Air Base
Cost 12
Giving +1M, +2M on SBR or TBR only,
Give +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending AB’s territory.
Allows up to three units to scramble, either Fg or TcB
Do not allow scramble if only Submarines attacking an adjacent SZ.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (0.00, 3.00)
Attack 0
Defense 2 or 2AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Instead of regular defense @2, can either roll 2@1 vs up to two aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.
Here is additional units which are optional and require new sculpts to play with:
Militia
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 2
1 hitMarines
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
+1 Attack in amphibious assault,
TP can carry 2 Marines, can load 1 on BattleshipBunker
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 0
Cost 5
2 hits
Requires 1 Inf, MI, Art, Elite, Marines or militia to work.
1 such unit must share same TTy to repair damage.Mobile Artillery
Attack 2
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Can blitz but cannot give blitz to Mech Infantry,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1D paired 1:1 with TankElite Infantry unit
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 1-2
Cost 5
Can load 1 on Battleship, or 2 on TP,
Gets +1M paired 1:1 with Tank and blitz with it,
Can load 1 on Air TP during move CM or NCM,Air Transport
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 5-6
Cost 7
1 hit
Load 1 Elite unit CM or NCM.Escort Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.73) or 1 TcB (0.85, 0.64)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.Military Base
Cost 12
Allows to built up to three Infantry and can be built on 0 or 1 IPC TT or Island.
Has 6 damage points, not operational if 3 or more damage.
Built-in AAgun. -
@Baron:
This is a unit profiles for G40 Redesign, I will try to test on my boardgame.
Do you think it can be interesting on board map game?The Depth Charge sequence for Destroyer is inspired by YG’s 3G40 project.
This allows to not block Sub’s submerge (which is realistic from a ship-to-ship POV).
I also used SS long time play-tested HR, Destroyer blocking Sub’s Surprise strike on a 1:1 basis.These two abilities seem better at depicting Sub warfare with not so complex mechanic.
Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
DD A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
SS A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67)
But all other units are adjusted to keep
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13) and
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12) better in combat compared to Destroyer (0.96) but both even combat ratio based on same IPC basis (1.12).Carrier A0 D2 (0.87) still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger than OOB Carrier (0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
However, both aircraft have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.TcB A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) now gets targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, which includes submerged Subs.
Fg A2 D2 C7 (0.98) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
StB cannot be part of regular combat, but get A1 in SBR dogfight.This units profile allows a full spectrum of combat values for Naval combat:
DD A1 D1, Sub A2 D1, Fg A2 D2, TcB A3 D2, Cruiser A3 D3, BB A4 D4Now, Cruiser is taking the middle place of Destroyer in OOB roster
Of course, setup will need adjustments because of cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
However, Subs are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth Charge: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @2, only for on going combat round, up to 1 roll per submerged Submarine max.
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can Depth charge
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Transport (variant M3-4) (0.00)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundCruiser (1.13)
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Variant: M3-4, Cost 9, 1 hit, (0.89)
Shore bombardment @3
1D in Convoy SZFleet Carrier (0.00, 0.87)
Attack 0
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs (0.72, 0.94),
1 Fg & 1 TcB (0.77, 0.87),
2 TcBs (0.83, 0.79)
Air operation allowed for 1 plane, if damaged.Battleship (1.12)
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Cost 15
2 hits
Shorebombard @4
1D in Convoy SZFighter (0.98)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D2,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Can air retreat 1 adjacent TTy after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can target any land or naval enemy’s unit (excludes aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A1 D1 dmg 1D6 on AB & NB
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs
Can target submerged Subs in same combat round that Subs submerged.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy, after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Strategic Bomber (0.00/ SBR: 0.96)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 6-8 (M8 from AB for SBR only)
Cost 5
0 hit in regular combat,
SBR 1 hit, A1 D0, dmg 1D6Air Base
Cost 12
Giving +1M, +2M on SBR or TBR only,
Give +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending AB’s territory.
Allows up to three units to scramble, either Fg or TcB
Do not allow scramble if only Submarines attacking an adjacent SZ.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (0.00, 3.00)
Attack 0
Defense 2 or 2AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Instead of regular defense @2, can either roll 2@1 vs up to two aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.
Here is additional units which are optional and require new sculpts to play with:
Militia
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 2
1 hitMarines
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
+1 Attack in amphibious assault,
TP can carry 2 Marines, can load 1 on BattleshipBunker
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 0
Cost 5
2 hits
Requires 1 Inf, MI, Art, Elite, Marines or militia to work.
1 such unit must share same TTy to repair damage.Mobile Artillery
Attack 2
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Can blitz but cannot give blitz to Mech Infantry,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1D paired 1:1 with TankElite Infantry unit
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 1-2
Cost 5
Can load 1 on Battleship, or 2 on TP,
Gets +1M paired 1:1 with Tank and blitz with it,
Can load 1 on Air TP during move CM or NCM,Air Transport
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 5-6
Cost 7
1 hit
Load 1 Elite unit CM or NCM.Escort Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.73) or 1 TcB (0.85, 0.64)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.Military Base
Cost 12
Allows to built up to three Infantry and can be built on 0 or 1 IPC TT or Island.
Has 6 damage points, not operational if 3 or more damage.
Built-in AAgun.Based on the ENIGMA vann FORMULAS.
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Not exactly, I rather say ajusted partially according to Enigma-Vann formulas.
These ones were in the oven at least a year before you came up.
And this units profile contains a lot of units with special abilities which goes beyond pure combat factors.For instance, StB 5$ not participating in regular combat, Fighter targeting aircraft, TcB picking up casualties, AA rolling each combat round, TcB anti-sub @1 capacity converted into allowing to pick submerged Subs (@1 in Depth charge phase), Subs cannot hit Subs, Marines on board Battleship, Move 3 for Cruiser and TP, etc.
Combat rating is one factor amongst many others here. Redesign is a complex beast flying between tabletop and Triple A software xml coding.
Probably Cruiser daring low cost 8, instead of 9$ M3-4, and Carrier still keeping 2 aircraft (as OOB) instead of 3 planes (as usual for this configuration) can be relevant to Enigma-Vann formulas.
If you ever want to try TripleA Global40 with different HRs of you choice, Redesign allows such entertainment.
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I got time to add more details and much more elements from Triple A Redesign sequence (like targeted First strike: Interdiction Patrol)
:-DThis is a unit profiles for G40 Redesign, I will try to test on my boardgame.
Do you think it can be interesting on board map game?The Depth Charge sequence for Destroyer is inspired by YG’s 3G40 project.
This allows to not block Sub’s submerge (which is realistic from a ship-to-ship POV).
I also used SS long time play-tested HR, Destroyer blocking Sub’s Surprise strike on a 1:1 basis.These two abilities seem better at depicting Sub warfare with not so complex mechanic.
The Naval sequence will be:
0- Interdiction Patrol: 1 roll @1 against Sub or surface vessels (up to 1 roll max against each unit) crossing SZ defended by Sub or Destroyer (against Sub only), prior to actual combat.
1- Submerge or Surprise strike
2- Anti-Sub Patrol: Depth charge against submerged Subs- Tactical bomber @1 each
- Destroyer @1
@2each,up to 1 roll max per submerged Submarine
3- General combat: - Roll Fighters [and AAA in land combat, if attacking aircraft present],
- then roll TcBs,
- Subs,
- All other units.
4- Retreat: - Surviving Transports escape roll @1 (place in SZ)
- Air retreat, attacker then defender,
- Attacker’s general retreat
If no general retreat, cycle to phase 1.
Increasing dogfight occurrences:
Up to two aircraft, either Fighter or Tac Bomber, can land in a just conquered territory, if aircraft have 2 move left for NCM after battle.
A land unit must first conquered the territory before allowing any aircraft to land on.
Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
Destroyer A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
Submarine A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67)
But all other units are adjusted according to ENIGMA-Vann formula so to keep
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13) and
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12), 2 hits, better in combat compared to Destroyer (0.96) but both even combat ratio based on same IPC basis (1.12).Fleet Carrier A0 D2 C12 (0.87), 2 hits, still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger than OOB Carrier (0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
Still, Full Carrier with 2 Fgs A2 D2 for A4 D7 C26 (0.72, 1.11) has a stronger combat factor than
OOB Full Carrier A6 D10 C36 (0.53, 0.88).
Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A5 D7 C27 (0.77, 1.03) is stronger than
OOB Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A7 D9 C37 (0.48, 0.75)
Also, both aircraft types have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.Tactical Bomber A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) now gets targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, and also get Depth charge @1 against submerged Subs.
Fighter A2 D2 C7 (0.98) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Strategic Bombers cannot be part of regular combat, but get A1 in SBR dogfight.This units profile allows a full spectrum of combat values for Naval combat:
Carrier A0 D2 C12, DD A1 D1 C5, Sub A2 D1 C6, Fg A2 D2 C7, TcB A3 D2 C8, Cruiser A3 D3 C8, BB A4 D4 C15Now, Cruiser at 8 IPCs is taking the middle place of Destroyer in OOB roster
Of course, setup will need adjustments because of cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carrier A12 D21 C78
2 OOB Fighter A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighter A2 D2 C7 (A6 D6 C21)
2 Tactical Bomber A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacB A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
2 Strategic bomber A4 D1 C12 —> 3 StB A0 D0 C5 & 1 TcB A3 D2 C8
Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
However, Subs are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth charge on submerged Sub: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by Destroyer must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per DD, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round,up to 1 roll per submerged Submarine max.
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Cannot block Subs or surface vessels CM or NCM,
but each Submarine or surface vessel moving through a SZ patrolled by Sub (Sub cannot control SZ) must submit to 1 @1 Sub potshot defense roll per defending Sub, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine or surface ship moving through SZ, whichever the lower.Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to 2- Depth charge and 3- General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can do Depth charge at submerged Sub, up to 1 roll @2 per Sub max.
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Transport (0.00)
[variant Move 3-4]
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
Taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38 or less)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 8, 1 hit, each TP also gets 1 escape roll @1]
Attack 0
Defense 1* * 1@1 for all friendly TPs group in SZ
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any ground
Can be taken as casualty according to owner’s choice.Cruiser (1.13)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 9, 1 hit, (0.89)]
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Shore bombardment @3
1D in Convoy SZFleet Carrier (0.00, 0.87)
Attack 0
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs A4 D7 C26 (0.72, 1.11),
1 Fg & 1 TcB A5 D7 C27 (0.77, 1.03),
2 TcBs A6 D6 C28 (0.83, 0.79)
Air operation allowed for 1 plane, if damaged.
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending when paired 1:1 with Carrier (Carrier Air Patrol)Battleship (1.12)
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Cost 15
2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
1D in Convoy SZFighter (0.98) (SBR: 0.98)
Attack 2
Defense 2-3 (3) when being supported by an AB in invaded TT or a Carrier in embattled SZ, on 1:1 basis
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D2,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75) (Depth charge: 0.38) (TBR: 0.38)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can pick any land or naval enemy’s unit (excluding aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A1 D1, damage 1D6 on AB & NB (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPC /8 IPCs= 0.4375 or 2.92 - 8/6 = 1.6 IPCs damage / SBR)
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round, no max roll per submerged Submarine (stackable rolls).
Tactical Bombers doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy, after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Strategic Bomber (0.00/ SBR: 0.96)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 6-8 (M8 from AB for SBR only)
Cost 5
0 hit in regular combat,
SBR 1 hit, A1 D0, damage 1D6 (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPCs /5 IPCs= 0.7 or 2.9 - 5/6 = 2.1 IPCs damage / SBR)
[OOB avg dmg ratio: 5.5 IPCs /12 IPCs =[i] 0.458 or 4.6 - 12/6 = 2.6 IPCs damage / SBR]OOB G40: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCsSum: 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/StB run
1 StB Cost 5 damage D6 doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.917 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCsSum: 2.917 - 0.833 = +2.084 IPCs damage/StB run
1 TcB Cost 8 damage D6 doing TBR without interceptor
5/6 TcB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.92 IPCs
1/6 TcB killed *8 IPCs = -1.33 IPCsSum: 2.92 - 1.33 = +1.59 IPCs damage/TcB run
Air Base
Cost 12
Giving +1M, +2M on SBR or TBR only,
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending either AB’s territory or adjacent SZ & TT.
Allows up to four units to scramble, either Fg or TcB.
Scramble can occur in either an adjacent SZ or an adjacent TT.
Do not allow scramble if only Submarines attacking an adjacent SZ.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (0.00, 3.00 / AA from 1.50 up to 4.50)
Attack 0
Defense 2 or 3AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Roll 3@1 vs up to three aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft or, if no enemy’s aircraft, roll regular defense @2.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.If AAA against up to 3 aircraft:
1/6 TcB shoot down *8 IPCs = 1.33 IPCs * 3 = 4.00
1/6 Fg shoot down *7 IPCs = 1.17 IPCs * 3 = 3.50
Average:
3.75 IPCs shoot down per combat round if at least 3 attacking aircraft
2.50 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 2 attacking aircraft
1.25 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 1 attacking aircraftIf AAA against up to 2 aircraft:
1/6 TcB shoot down *8 IPCs = 1.33 IPCs * 2 = 2.66
1/6 Fg shoot down *7 IPCs = 1.17 IPCs * 2 = 2.34
Average:
2.50 IPCs shoot down per combat round if at least 2 attacking aircraft
1.25 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 1 attacking aircraft
Here is additional units which are optional and require new sculpts to play with:
Militia (0.00, 6.00)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 2
1 hitMarines (2.67-5.33, 2.67)
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
+1 Attack in amphibious assault,
TP can carry 2 Marines, can load 1 on BattleshipBunker (0.00, 2.88)
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 0
Cost 5
2 hits
Requires 1 Inf, MI, Art, Elite, Marines or militia to work.
1 such unit must share same TTy to repair damage.Mobile Artillery (1.92, 1.92-2.38)
Attack 2
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Can blitz but cannot give blitz to Mech Infantry,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1D paired 1:1 with TankElite Infantry unit (1.92)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 1-2
Cost 5
Can load 1 on Battleship, or 2 on TP,
Gets +1M paired 1:1 with Tank and blitz with it,
Can load 1 on Air TP during move CM or NCM,Air Transport
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 5-6
Cost 7
1 hit
Load 1 Elite unit CM or NCM.Escort Carrier or Light Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.49, 0.98) or 1 TcB (0.64, 0.64)
_Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending when paired 1:1 with Carrier (CAP)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by CVE must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per Escort Carrier, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.Military Base
Cost 12
Allows to built up to three Infantry and can be built on 0 or 1 IPC TT or Island.
Has 6 damage points, not operational if 3 or more damage.
Built-in AAgun._ -
@Baron:
I got time to add more details and much more elements from Triple A Redesign sequence (like targeted First strike: Interdiction Patrol)
:-DThis is a unit profiles for G40 Redesign, I will try to test on my boardgame.
Do you think it can be interesting on board map game?The Depth Charge sequence for Destroyer is inspired by YG’s 3G40 project.
This allows to not block Sub’s submerge (which is realistic from a ship-to-ship POV).
I also used SS long time play-tested HR, Destroyer blocking Sub’s Surprise strike on a 1:1 basis.These two abilities seem better at depicting Sub warfare with not so complex mechanic.
The Naval sequence will be:
0- Interdiction Patrol: 1 roll @1 against Sub or surface vessels (up to 1 roll max against each unit) crossing SZ defended by Sub or Destroyer (against Sub only), prior to actual combat.
1- Submerge or Surprise strike
2- Anti-Sub Patrol: Depth charge against submerged Subs
3- General combat:- Roll Fighters [and AAA, if attacking aircraft present, in land combat],
- then roll TcBs,
- Subs,
- All other units.
4- Retreat:
-Air retreat, attacker then defender,
-Attacker’s general retreat
If no general retreat, cycle to phase 1.
Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
Destroyer A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
Submarine A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67)
But all other units are adjusted according to ENIGMA-Vann formula so to keep
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13) and
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12), 2 hits, better in combat compared to Destroyer (0.96) but both even combat ratio based on same IPC basis (1.12).Fleet Carrier A0 D2 C12 (0.87), 2 hits, still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger than OOB Carrier (0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
Still, Full Carrier with 2 Fgs A2 D2 for A4 D6 C26 (0.72, 0.94) has a stronger combat factor than
OOB Full Carrier A6 D10 C36 (0.53, 0.88).
Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A5 D6 C27 (0.77, 0.87) is stronger than
OOB Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A7 D9 C37 (0.48, 0.75)
Also, both aircraft types have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.Tactical Bomber A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) now gets targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, and also get Depth charge @1 against submerged Subs.
Fighter A2 D2 C7 (0.98) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Strategic Bombers cannot be part of regular combat, but get A1 in SBR dogfight.This units profile allows a full spectrum of combat values for Naval combat:
Carrier A0 D2 C12, DD A1 D1 C5, Sub A2 D1 C6, Fg A2 D2 C7, TcB A3 D2 C8, Cruiser A3 D3 C8, BB A4 D4 C15Now, Cruiser at 8 IPCs is taking the middle place of Destroyer in OOB roster
Of course, setup will need adjustments because of cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carrier A12 D18 C78
2 OOB Fighter A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighter A2 D2 C7 (A6 D6 C21)
2 Tactical Bomber A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacB A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
2 Strategic bomber A4 D1 C12 —> 3 StB A0 D0 C5 & 1 TcB A3 D2 C8
Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
However, Subs are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth charge on submerged Sub: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by Destroyer must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per DD, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @2, only for on going combat round, up to 1 roll per submerged Submarine max.
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Cannot block Subs or surface vessels CM or NCM,
but each Submarine or surface vessel moving through a SZ patrolled by Sub (Sub cannot control SZ) must submit to 1 @1 Sub potshot defense roll per defending Sub, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine or surface ship moving through SZ, whichever the lower.Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to 2- Depth charge and 3- General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can do Depth charge at submerged Sub, up to 1 roll @2 per Sub max.
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Transport (variant M3-4) (0.00)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
Taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundCruiser (1.13)
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Variant: M3-4, Cost 9, 1 hit, (0.89)
Shore bombardment @3
1D in Convoy SZFleet Carrier (0.00, 0.87)
Attack 0
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs (0.72, 0.94),
1 Fg & 1 TcB (0.77, 0.87),
2 TcBs (0.83, 0.79)
Air operation allowed for 1 plane, if damaged.Battleship (1.12)
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Cost 15
2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
1D in Convoy SZFighter (0.98) (SBR: 0.98)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D2,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75) (Depth charge: 0.38) (TBR: 0.38)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can pick any land or naval enemy’s unit (excluding aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A1 D1, damage 1D6 on AB & NB (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPC /8 IPCs= 0.4375 or 2.92 - 8/6 = 1.6 IPCs damage / SBR)
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round, no max roll per submerged Submarine (stackable rolls).
Tactical Bombers doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy, after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Strategic Bomber (0.00/ SBR: 0.96)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 6-8 (M8 from AB for SBR only)
Cost 5
0 hit in regular combat,
SBR 1 hit, A1 D0, damage 1D6 (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPCs /5 IPCs= 0.7 or 2.9 - 5/6 = 2.1 IPCs damage / SBR)
[OOB avg dmg ratio: 5.5 IPCs /12 IPCs =[i] 0.458 or 4.6 - 12/6 = 2.6 IPCs damage / SBR]OOB G40: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCsSum: 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/StB run
1 StB Cost 5 damage D6 doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.92 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCsSum: 2.92 - 0.833 = +2.083 IPCs damage/StB run
1 TcB Cost 8 damage D6 doing TBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.92 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *8 IPCs = -1.33 IPCsSum: 2.92 - 1.33 = +1.59 IPCs damage/TcB run
Air Base
Cost 12
Giving +1M, +2M on SBR or TBR only,
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending AB’s territory or nearby SZ.
Allows up to three units to scramble, either Fg or TcB
Scramble can occur in either an adjacent SZ or an adjacent TT.
Do not allow scramble if only Submarines attacking an adjacent SZ.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (0.00, 3.00 / AA from 1.50 up to 3.00)
Attack 0
Defense 2 or 2AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Roll 2@1 vs up to two aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft or, if no enemy’s aircraft, roll regular defense @2.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.
Here is additional units which are optional and require new sculpts to play with:
Militia (0.00, 6.00)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 2
1 hitMarines (2.67-5.33, 2.67)
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
+1 Attack in amphibious assault,
TP can carry 2 Marines, can load 1 on BattleshipBunker (0.00, 2.88)
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 0
Cost 5
2 hits
Requires 1 Inf, MI, Art, Elite, Marines or militia to work.
1 such unit must share same TTy to repair damage.Mobile Artillery (1.92, 1.92-2.38)
Attack 2
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Can blitz but cannot give blitz to Mech Infantry,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1D paired 1:1 with TankElite Infantry unit (1.92)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 1-2
Cost 5
Can load 1 on Battleship, or 2 on TP,
Gets +1M paired 1:1 with Tank and blitz with it,
Can load 1 on Air TP during move CM or NCM,Air Transport
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 5-6
Cost 7
1 hit
Load 1 Elite unit CM or NCM.Escort Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.49, 0.73) or 1 TcB (0.64, 0.64)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by CVE must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per Escort Carrier, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.
Military Base
Cost 12
Allows to built up to three Infantry and can be built on 0 or 1 IPC TT or Island.
Has 6 damage points, not operational if 3 or more damage.
Built-in AAgun.INTERESTING, more power to you guys.
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Thanks Dauvio.
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I thought about a way to try one’s of Krieghund suggestion about Transport which is probably not difficult to make. It simply requires to create a Transport unit with A0 D0 C8, 1 hit.
Triple A will treat it as a combat unit.
That way, players will decide when they are going to take TP as casualties.
It would be player enforced whether to fully play according to Krieghund rules 1 combat unit cover 1 TP, or to use TP as additional fodder, pure and simple.For instance, 1 Sub vs 1 DD & 1 TP, 1 hit from Sub.
Krieghund way: DD is taken as casualty, and TP is eventually sink too.
Otherway, TP is taken as casualty and Sub can decide to retreat or continue battle against DD.That way would be halfway between defenseless and TP as regular combat unit A0 D1 1 hit.
It allows to keep OOB setup without extreme adjustments to TP becoming part of combat.It makes for a more realistic way of treating TP in combat without giving combat capacities beyond 1 hit value.
TP is neither better on offense nor defense.Anytime 1 unit can do something to an infinite number of opponent’s unit (DDs vs Subs, 1 DD & infinite aircraft vs Subs, combat units vs TPs), it creates unrealistic loopholes and gamey features.
I quoted 1 post which contains Krieghund replies on that topic.
@Baron:
@Baron:
How about this for a house rule idea: leave the transport rules exactly as they are, except transports in excess of combat units can be taken as casualties. This allows combat units to “screen” transports, but unscreened transports can be lost.
Example:
A fleet containing a carrier, 2 fighters, a destroyer, and 5 transports is attacked. The first hit could be taken on the carrier, damaging it. The next hit may be taken on a transport, as there are 5 transports but only 4 combat units. However, the following hit must be taken on a combat unit, as the number of transports and combat units is now equal. The remaining order of loss could be destroyer, transport, carrier, transport, fighter, transport, fighter, transport.I actually like Krieg’s solution a lot. transports are defended on a 1-1 basis.
I still cannot see why is this a solution?
TT become a 1 unit value @0 like AAA after first round.They will play a similar role, mostly if defender thinks he couldn’t make it against attacker’s units.
TT becomes cannon fodder or tampering unit for the defensive valuable unit (D2/D3/D4) like what many critics about classic pointed out.
What it does, is only regulate the rate of attrition amongst TT.
Exactly, but at a much weaker value than in Classic.
Transports still get used as a cheap soak off, when in reality attacking units would go for capital ships. Transports should get the hell out of a combat zone ASAP since the only thing they want is to survive!
Yes, but as someone pointed out, A&A is about choices. This gives the transport owner more control over order of loss, without using transports completely as a shield. However, it would probably be necessary to also outlaw attacking with transports unless doing an amphibious assault (and them only with loaded ones).
@Cow:
It costs much to protect them, it would reduce the cost a little if they had some defense value.
That is all people are getting at.
I believe that’s exactly what I proposed. Allowing transports to be conditionally taken as casualties gives them “some defense value” by allowing preservation of some combat unit firepower for a little longer without using them completely as cannon fodder. This leverages the value of your combat units, allowing you to purchase fewer of them for the same effect. You still have to protect your transports, but it’s a little easier to do so. It also preserves the requirement to give transports adequate protection, as they are still completely defenseless on their own.
Another example may illustrate this. Say you have a fleet consisting of a cruiser and three transports. Under the official rules, all an attacker need do is sink the cruiser, and the whole fleet goes down. Under my proposal, two of the transports can be lost before the cruiser. This gives the defender some cushion, but not nearly as much as it would in Classic, as the transports can’t fire. This extra bit of defense forces the attacker to bring more to the table than he would need to do under the current rules. However, the defense is still relatively weak, as the defender only gets one shot per round, so it’s still wise for the defender to provide more warships.
This Krieghund’s house rule change was discreetly suggested but not enough estimated, IMO.
This can provide something to better depicted the usual course of historical naval battle when Subs or Aircraft are attacking TPs and escort. They mainly target Transport and Troopship before escorting vessels.This rule almost get ride of Transport always Taken last thus improving player’s decision freedom.
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It allows defender to sometime pick Transport as casualty as he sees fit.
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It gives no defense besides escort defense rolls.
Instead of all combat units, what I would use as the bottom line to forbid taking TP as casualty is:
each friendly surface warship can only cover/escort 1 Transport.
The ratio would be 1 friendly surface warship for 1 Transport.
Any excess of TPs above this 1:1 ratio for close surface escort can be destroyed and worth 1 hit for casualty determination.Defender would be allowed to select TPs as casualty as long as he keeps 1 TP for each friendly surface warship.
That way, TP is treated defenseless but considered as 1 hit value for casualty selection.
IL and CWO Marc will feel it is more typical of transport (cargo and troops) combat effectiveness.The other point on historical depiction is that TP is reintroduced as a main target for enemy.
This allow defender the choice to pick or not his TPs in naval battle.Example:
1 Destroyer, 1 Sub and 3 Transports defending in SZ,
Defender may choose up to 2 TPs as casualty before loosing 1 DD or 1 Sub.
After loosing 2 TPs, if DD is picked as casualty over Sub, the last Transport can then be chosen as casualty. Submarine is not a surface vessel.
So, order of loss may be: 2 TPs, 1 DD, 1 TP, 1 Sub.
However, if Sub is chosen earlier like: 1 Sub, 2 TPs, 1 DD, then last TP will be auto-kill.Now, it reintroduced a better depiction of convoy raiding.
And the final stack is virtually reduced to 1 undefended TP, since defender may wish and is now allowed to alternate between a warship and a TP for final combat rounds.
Example:
3 Destroyers, 6 TPs
Order of losses: 3 TPs, 1 DD, 1 TP, 1 DD, 1 TP, 1 DD, 1 TP.Don’t you think it better reenact such kind of naval situations where TPs is lost because of an inefficient escort screen?
For my part, I believe that giving more options to defender allows more variability which, in return, might better take into account various WWII combat situations that occurs: from not loosing any TP, or not totally loosing all Escort and saving a few TPs, to barely saving 1 or 2 TPs while loosing all escorting ships.
How about this for a house rule idea: leave the transport rules exactly as they are, except transports in excess of combat units can be taken as casualties. This allows combat units to “screen” transports, but unscreened transports can be lost.
Transports still get used as a cheap soak off, when in reality attacking units would go for capital ships.
Transports should get the hell out of a combat zone ASAP since the only thing they want is to survive!
Kim
IDK, looking into Troopships and shipping Convoys, most of the time it seems these Transports were targeted first.
Sinking war materials and infantryman seems an high priority.
Anyone see why Capital ships were not always targeted first?I viewed that sometimes it is only a case of opportunity about which ships is closest and biggest.
In this documentary about 1944 Truk Atoll raid, it seems to be mostly IJN auxiliary ships first rather than few Destroyers and one or two Cruisers:
Battle 360 Episode 7 Hammer of Hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V-2zQCbwc0Naval Battle of Guadalcanal revealed that IJN transports were sunk while some warships (Cruisers and DDs) survived.
Another case in which it makes good sense to allow sinking of Transports and more room for owner decision’s about casualty selection:In the resulting battle, both sides lost numerous warships in two extremely destructive surface engagements at night. Nevertheless, the U.S. succeeded in turning back attempts by the Japanese to bombard Henderson Field with battleships. Allied aircraft also sank most of the Japanese troop transports and prevented the majority of the Japanese troops and equipment from reaching Guadalcanal.
Japanese initial forces:
2 battleships
6 heavy cruisers
4 light cruisers
16 destroyers
11 transportsCasualties and losses
First phase 13 nov 1942:
1 battleship
1 heavy cruiser
2 destroyers
7 transports
Second phase 14-15 nov 1942:
1 battleship
1 destroyer
4 transports (beached first)
Plus:
64 aircraft
for a total of 1,900 killed (exclusive of transport losses) -
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After playtest on AA50, I realized that Axis setup needed to receive more Navy based on OOB IPCs values and StB mutation from combat unit to SBR only unit required an additional Tactical Bomber to compensate for the missing attack “4” for regular combat.
I provided below 2 adjusted setups for StB Cost 5, and all this modified roster quoted: one for 1942.2 and one for AA50 1941.
These setups also include Convoys SZs (4 IPCs to maxed out) which can be raided by Submarines only on these maps.
It helps Axis to compensate for the rapid growth of Allies Navy due to 5-6-8-12-15, lower cost structure.
Germany’s u-boats were clearly more interesting in ATO. However, TcB and Destroyers Depth Charge have to be @1 only. Giving Depth Charge @2 to Destroyer was too high and was too easy to sink all u-boats.For US, the lower cost for warships allows US to built sea units on both sides. However, have to remember that a Full Carrier with 2 Fighters (A4 D7 C26) is easier to built but weaker than OOB (A6 D10 C36). An hard lesson learned when IJN wipe out US West Coast fleet.
Tactical Bomber being able to pick ground unit (on land) or naval target (at sea) was pretty interesting.
Japanese player decided to take one hit on a carrier but later US TcB got a hit and pick a Carrier. Japan chose to loose 1 already damage carrier but, after combat had to ditch 1 Fighter because of not enough room on his last Carrier.TPs were at 8 IPCs but get 1 hit and a single roll @1 per group. Was pretty straight forward for a new player.
It provides a minimal risk in many cases against Allies dispersed TP with DD.
With Destroyer defending @1 and last TP also defending @1, this gave an even option to keep one or the other, except against Subs. So, there is no predictable outcomes with lasts remaining naval units.StBs A1 in SBR were dangerous but AAA @1, TcB D1 and Fg D2 or D3 provided an efficient defense.
U-boats were more efficient at reducing UK and US money than any German StB (needing a critical number to fight interceptors).@Baron:
I got time to add more details and much more elements from Triple A Redesign sequence (like targeted First strike: Interdiction Patrol)
:-DThis is a unit profiles for G40 Redesign, I will try to test on my boardgame.
Do you think it can be interesting on board map game?The Depth Charge sequence for Destroyer is inspired by YG’s 3G40 project.
This allows to not block Sub’s submerge (which is realistic from a ship-to-ship POV).
I also used SS long time play-tested HR, Destroyer blocking Sub’s Surprise strike on a 1:1 basis.These two abilities seem better at depicting Sub warfare with not so complex mechanic.
The Naval sequence will be:
0- Interdiction Patrol: 1 roll @1 against Sub or surface vessels (up to 1 roll max against each unit) crossing SZ defended by Sub or Destroyer (against Sub only), prior to actual combat.
1- Submerge or Surprise strike
2- Anti-Sub Patrol: Depth charge against submerged Subs- Tactical bomber @1 each
- Destroyer @1
@2each,up to 1 roll max per submerged Submarine
3- General combat: - Roll Fighters [and AAA in land combat, if attacking aircraft present],
- then roll TcBs,
- Subs,
- All other units.
4- Retreat: - Surviving Transports escape roll @1 (place in SZ)
- Air retreat, attacker then defender,
- Attacker’s general retreat
If no general retreat, cycle to phase 1.
Increasing dogfight occurrences:
Up to two aircraft, either Fighter or Tac Bomber, can land in a just conquered territory, if aircraft have 2 move left for NCM after battle.
A land unit must first conquered the territory before allowing any aircraft to land on.
Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
Destroyer A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
Submarine A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67)
But all other units are adjusted according to ENIGMA-Vann formula so to keep
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13) and
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12), 2 hits, better in combat compared to Destroyer (0.96) but both even combat ratio based on same IPC basis (1.12).Fleet Carrier A0 D2 C12 (0.87), 2 hits, still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger than OOB Carrier (0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
Still, Full Carrier with 2 Fgs A2 D2 for A4 D7 C26 (0.72, 1.11) has a stronger combat factor than
OOB Full Carrier A6 D10 C36 (0.53, 0.88).
Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A5 D7 C27 (0.77, 1.03) is stronger than
OOB Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A7 D9 C37 (0.48, 0.75)
Also, both aircraft types have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.Tactical Bomber A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) now gets targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, and also get Depth charge @1 against submerged Subs.
Fighter A2 D2 C7 (0.98) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.
Strategic Bombers cannot be part of regular combat, but get A1 in SBR dogfight.This units profile allows a full spectrum of combat values for Naval combat:
Carrier A0 D2 C12, DD A1 D1 C5, Sub A2 D1 C6, Fg A2 D2 C7, TcB A3 D2 C8, Cruiser A3 D3 C8, BB A4 D4 C15Now, Cruiser at 8 IPCs is taking the middle place of Destroyer in OOB roster
Of course, setup will need adjustments because of cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carrier A12 D21 C78
2 OOB Fighter A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighter A2 D2 C7 (A6 D6 C21)
2 Tactical Bomber A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacB A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
2 Strategic bomber A4 D1 C12 (A8 D2 C24) —> 2 StB A0 D0 C5 & 2 TcB A3 D2 C8 (A6 D4 C26)
2 Destroyer A2 D2 C8 (A4 D4 C16) —> 3 DD A1 D1 C5 (A3 D3 C15)
2 Cruiser A3 D3 C12 (A6 D6 C24) —> 3 CA A3 D3 C8 (A9 D9 C24)
Also, cheaper boats will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
However, Subs are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth charge on submerged Sub: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by Destroyer must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per DD, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round,up to 1 roll per submerged Submarine max.
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Cannot block Subs or surface vessels CM or NCM,
but each Submarine or surface vessel moving through a SZ patrolled by Sub (Sub cannot control SZ) must submit to 1 @1 Sub potshot defense roll per defending Sub, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine or surface ship moving through SZ, whichever the lower.Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to 2- Depth charge and 3- General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can do Depth charge @1at submerged Sub,up to 1 roll @2 per Sub max.
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Transport (0.00)
[variant Move 3-4]
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
Taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38 or less)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 8, 1 hit, each TP also gets 1 escape roll @1]
Attack 0
Defense 1* * 1@1 for all friendly TPs group in SZ
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any ground
Can be taken as casualty according to owner’s choice.Cruiser (1.13)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 9, 1 hit, (0.89)]
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Shore bombardment @3
1D in Convoy SZFleet Carrier (0.00, 0.87)
Attack 0
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs A4 D7 C26 (0.72, 1.11),
1 Fg & 1 TcB A5 D7 C27 (0.77, 1.03),
2 TcBs A6 D6 C28 (0.83, 0.79)
Air operation allowed for 1 plane, if damaged.
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending when paired 1:1 with Carrier (Carrier Air Patrol)Battleship (1.12)
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Cost 15
2 hits
Shore bombardment @4
1D in Convoy SZFighter (0.98) (SBR: 0.98)
Attack 2
Defense 2-3 (3) when being supported by an AB in invaded TT or a Carrier in embattled SZ, on 1:1 basis
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D2,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75) (Depth charge: 0.38) (TBR: 0.38)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can pick any land or naval enemy’s unit (excluding aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A1 D1, damage 1D6 on AB & NB (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPC /8 IPCs= 0.4375 or 2.92 - 8/6 = 1.6 IPCs damage / SBR)
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round, no max roll per submerged Submarine (stackable rolls).
Tactical Bombers doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
Can retreat aircraft 1 adjacent TTy, after first combat round (announce before attacker’s retreat).Strategic Bomber (0.00/ SBR: 0.96)
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 6-8 (M8 from AB for SBR only)
Cost 5
0 hit in regular combat,
SBR 1 hit, A1 D0, damage 1D6 (avg dmg ratio: 3.5 IPCs /5 IPCs= 0.7 or 2.9 - 5/6 = 2.1 IPCs damage / SBR)
[OOB avg dmg ratio: 5.5 IPCs /12 IPCs =[i] 0.458 or 4.6 - 12/6 = 2.6 IPCs damage / SBR]OOB G40: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCsSum: 4.583 - 2 = +2.583 IPCs damage/StB run
1 StB Cost 5 damage D6 doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.917 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *5 IPCs = -0.833 IPCsSum: 2.917 - 0.833 = +2.084 IPCs damage/StB run
1 TcB Cost 8 damage D6 doing TBR without interceptor
5/6 TcB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.92 IPCs
1/6 TcB killed *8 IPCs = -1.33 IPCsSum: 2.92 - 1.33 = +1.59 IPCs damage/TcB run
Air Base
Cost 12
Giving +1M, +2M on SBR or TBR only,
Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending either AB’s territory or adjacent SZ & TT.
Allows up to four units to scramble, either Fg or TcB.
Scramble can occur in either an adjacent SZ or an adjacent TT.
Do not allow scramble if only Submarines attacking an adjacent SZ.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (0.00, 3.00 / AA from 1.50 up to 4.50)
Attack 0
Defense 2 or 3AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Roll 3@1 vs up to three aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft or, if no enemy’s aircraft, roll regular defense @2.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.If AAA against up to 3 aircraft:
1/6 TcB shoot down *8 IPCs = 1.33 IPCs * 3 = 4.00
1/6 Fg shoot down *7 IPCs = 1.17 IPCs * 3 = 3.50
Average:
3.75 IPCs shoot down per combat round if at least 3 attacking aircraft
2.50 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 2 attacking aircraft
1.25 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 1 attacking aircraftIf AAA against up to 2 aircraft:
1/6 TcB shoot down *8 IPCs = 1.33 IPCs * 2 = 2.66
1/6 Fg shoot down *7 IPCs = 1.17 IPCs * 2 = 2.34
Average:
2.50 IPCs shoot down per combat round if at least 2 attacking aircraft
1.25 IPCs shoot down per combat round if only 1 attacking aircraft
Here is additional units which are optional and require new sculpts to play with:
Militia (0.00, 6.00)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 2
1 hitMarines (2.67-5.33, 2.67)
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
+1 Attack in amphibious assault,
TP can carry 2 Marines, can load 1 on BattleshipBunker (0.00, 2.88)
Attack 0
Defense 3
Move 0
Cost 5
2 hits
Requires 1 Inf, MI, Art, Elite, Marines or militia to work.
1 such unit must share same TTy to repair damage.Mobile Artillery (1.92, 1.92-2.38)
Attack 2
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Can blitz but cannot give blitz to Mech Infantry,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1D paired 1:1 with TankElite Infantry unit (1.92)
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 1-2
Cost 5
Can load 1 on Battleship, or 2 on TP,
Gets +1M paired 1:1 with Tank and blitz with it,
Can load 1 on Air TP during move CM or NCM,Air Transport
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 5-6
Cost 7
1 hit
Load 1 Elite unit CM or NCM.Escort Carrier or Light Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.49, 0.98) or 1 TcB (0.64, 0.64)
_Gives +1 Defense to 1 Fighter defending when paired 1:1 with Carrier (CAP)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by CVE must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per Escort Carrier, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.Military Base
Cost 12
Allows to built up to three Infantry and can be built on 0 or 1 IPC TT or Island.
Has 6 damage points, not operational if 3 or more damage.
Built-in AAgun.AA_Baron M units & set-up charts Redesigned for 1942 2ndEd_1941_AA50.doc_
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Keeping 2 basic units of G40 Redesign cost structure:
Destroyer A1 D1 C5 (0.96),
Submarine A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67),
I realized that some psychological wall needed to be trespassed so to make unit interactions still simpler.By rising Fighter to Defense 3, I got ride of combined arms for Fighter with Air Base or Carrier which was needed to have an aircraft with a better defense factor than offense.
However, such high defense factor imply a greater attrition rate for aircraft. Hence, the cost should not be risen to 8 IPCs. But Tank is A3 D3 M2 Cost 6, which is very near Fighter cost with less versatility.So to compensate such, Anti-Aircraft Artillery now is working for both Attack and Defense.
That way, defending aircraft will not be easily protected behind ground units.
Anti-Aircraft Artillery (1.50, 3.00 / AA from 1.50 up to 3.00)
Attack 1 or 2AA@1
Defense 2 or 2AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Roll 2@1 vs up to two aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft.Also, Tactical Bomber in bombing raid dogfight is increased to attack @2.
To compare ground units with aircraft:
Unit / Combat Value / (Power*cost ratio)
Infantry A1-2 D2 C3 (2.67, 5.33)
Anti-Aircraft Artillery A1 D2 C4, 2AA@1 (1.50, 3.00)
Artillery A2 D2 C4 (3.00)
Mechanized Infantry A1-2 D2 M2 C4 (1.50, 3.00)
Tank A3 D3 M2 C6 (2.00)
Light Tank A2 D2 M2 C5 (1.92)
Heavy Tank A4 D4 M2 C7 (1.96)
Mechanized Artillery A2-3 D2-3 M2 C5 (1.92 wLT: 2.40 /with Tank: 2.38/with HT: 2.33)
Fighter A2 D3 M4 C7 (0.98, 1.47)
TacBomber A3 D2 M4 C8 (1.13, 0.75)
SBR TcB dogfight: A2 D1 (0.75, 0.38)In addition to AAA, I also add a real Attack factor @1 for Fleet Carrier, so to get rid of zero combat value, as much as possible, besides Transport (which is a special case).
This would clearly modify Full Carrier combat values:
Fleet Carrier A1 D2 C12 (0.43, 0.87), 2 hits, still carry only 2 aircraft and is stronger on combat values per cost ratio than OOB Carrier (0.00, 0.49) on same IPCs basis, but weaker in absolute combat values.
Full Carrier with 2 Fgs A2 D3 for A5 D8 C26 (0.90, 1.44) has a stronger combat factor than
OOB Full Carrier with 2 Fgs A6 D10 C36 (0.53, 0.88);
Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A6 D7 C27 (0.92, 1.08) is stronger than
OOB Full Carrier 1 TcB & 1 Fg A7 D9 C37 (0.48, 0.75).
Also, both aircraft types have special abilities which can compensate and also because of cheaper Full Carrier compared to OOB units.Tactical Bomber A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75) has targeting capacity on Sea and Land units, and also get Depth Charge @1 against submerged Subs.
Fighter A2 D3 C7 (0.98, 1.47) directly fire at aircraft first, as usual for my HR. But it is treated as OOB when there is no enemy’s aircraft.This units profile allows a fuller spectrum of combat values for Naval combat than last post above:
Unit / Combat Value / (Power*cost ratio)
Destroyer A1 D1 C5 (0.96)
Submarine A2 D1 C6 (1.33, 0.67 / First strike: 2.00, 0.89)
Carrier A1 D2 C12 (0.43, 0.87)
Fighter A2 D3 C7 (0.98, 1.47)
TacBomber A3 D2 C8 (1.13, 0.75)
Cruiser A3 D3 C8 (1.13)
Battleship A4 D4 C15 (1.12)
Escort Carrier A1 D1 C7 (0.49, 0.49)Of course, any OOB setup will need adjustments because of much cheaper aircraft and Carrier.
Conversion rating is 2 OOB Full Carrier A12 D20 C72 –-> 3 Full Carriers A15 D24 C78 minus 1 Fighter : A13 D21 C71.
2 OOB Fighters A3 D4 C10 (A6 D8 C20) —> 3 Fighters A2 D3 C7 (A6 D9 C21)
2 Tactical Bombers A3-4 D3 C11 (A6 D6 C22) —> 3 TacBs A3 D2 C8 (A9 D6 C24)
2 Strategic Bombers A4 D1 C12 (A8 D2 C24) —> 2 StBs A0 D0 C5 & 2 TcBs A3 D2 C8 (A6 D4 C26)
2 Destroyers A2 D2 C8 (A4 D4 C16) —> 3 Destroyers A1 D1 C5 (A3 D3 C15)
2 Cruisers A3 D3 C12 (A6 D6 C24) —> 3 Cruisers A3 D3 C8 (A9 D9 C24)
Also, cheaper warships will increase the pressure on Axis much earlier in game.
Submarines are still potent offensive units with pretty good elusive capacity with all special rules.
Destroyer (0.96) (Depth charge on submerged Sub: 1.92 max)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 5
1 hit
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM, but each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by Destroyer must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per DD, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.
Block Submarine’s First strike on a 1:1 basis
Cannot block submerge but can Depth charge submerging Sub:
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
_1 roll @1, only for on going combat round
Destroyer doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.
1D in Convoy SZSubmarine (1.33, 0.67 / FS 2.00, 0.89)
Attack 2
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 6
1 hit
Cannot block Subs or surface vessels CM or NCM,
but each Submarine or surface vessel moving through a SZ patrolled by Sub (Sub cannot control SZ) must submit to 1 @1 Sub potshot defense roll per defending Sub, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine or surface ship moving through SZ, whichever the lower.Stealth Move: Submarine CM or NCM is not block by Destroyer and
in Combat Move, only Subs attacking do not allow scramble from adjacent Air Base
Submerge or First strike prior to 2- Depth charge and 3- General Combat phase,
First strike: Destroyer blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis
Submerge: Destroyer does not block submerge but can do Depth charge @1 at submerged Sub.
Cannot hit Submarines nor aircraft.
2D in Convoy SZ.Escort Carrier or Light Carrier, as a Sub Hunter (0.49)
Attack 1
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 7
1 hit
Carry 1 Fg (0.73, 0.98) or 1 TcB (0.85, 0.64)
Escort Carrier blocks Submarine’s First strike on 1:1 basis,
Does not block Submerge.
Cannot block Subs CM or NCM,
Each Sub moving through a SZ controlled by CVE must submit to 1 @1 anti-sub defense roll per Escort Carrier, up to 1 roll @1 per Submarine.Fleet Carrier (0.43, 0.87)
Attack 1
Defense 2
Move 2-3
Cost 12
2 hits
Carry 2 planes (Fg or TcB):
2 Fgs A5 D8 C26 (0.90, 1.44),
1 Fg & 1 TcB A6 D7 C27 (0.92, 1.08),
2 TcBs A7 D6 C28 (0.92, 0.79)
Air operation not allowed: if damaged, cannot carry plane.Fighter (0.98, 1.47) (SBR: 0.98, 1.47)
Attack 2
Defense 3
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB as escort for bombers)
Cost 7
1 hit
Hit aircraft first, then AAA, then owner’s selecting his own casualties as usual.
SBR A2 D3,
1D in Convoy SZ.
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.Tactical Bomber (1.13, 0.75) (Depth Charge: 0.38) (TBR: 0.76/ 0.38)
Attack 3
Defense 2
Move 4-5 (M6 from AB for TBR only)
Cost 8
1 hit
Can pick any land or naval enemy’s unit (excluding aircraft) if rolling a hit
TBR A2 D1, damage 1D6 on AB & NB
1D in Convoy SZ
Needs no Destroyer to hit Subs.
Depth charge against submerged Subs, after Submerge or First Strike phase and prior to regular combat:
1 roll @1, only for on going combat round, no max roll per submerged Submarine (stackable rolls).
Tactical Bombers doing Depth charge can still roll in regular combat.Anti-Aircraft Artillery (1.50, 3.00 / AA from 1.50 up to 3.00)
Attack 1 or 2AA@1
Defense 2 or 2AA@1
Move 1
Cost 4
1 hit
Roll 2@1 vs up to two aircraft, 1 roll max per aircraft.
This is not preemptive fire: roll in regular combat phase.
If no enemy’s aircraft, roll regular attack @1 or defense @2.
Move as any ground unit in CM and NCM.Tank
Attack 3 (2.00)
Defense 3 (2.00)
Move 2
Cost 6
1 hit
Blitz, gives blitz with Mech Infantry or Mech Artillery
Gives +1A/+1D to Mechanized Artillery paired 1:1Light Tank
Attack 2 (1.92)
Defense 2 (1.92)
Move 2
Cost 5
1 hit
Blitz, gives blitz with Mech Infantry or Mech Artillery
Gives +1A/+1D to Mechanized Artillery paired 1:1Heavy Tank
Attack 4 (1.96)
Defense 4 (1.96)
Move 2
Cost 7
1 hit
Blitz, gives blitz with Mech Infantry or Mech Artillery
Gives +1A/+1D to Mechanized Artillery paired 1:1Mechanized Artillery (1.92-2.38)
Attack 2-3
Defense 2-3
Move 2
Cost 5
Need Tank to blitz,
Gives +1A to Inf or MI, paired 1:1
Gets +1A/+1D paired 1:1 with TankP.S. First official post in the new Forum…
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Still trying to simplify much deeper unit interactions, I noticed that there was 1 type of Transport not defined in my above posts with a missing sweet spot at 10 IPCs, a fully regular combat unit to figure troopships (which is not meant to figure for merchant ship, since Convoy are for that purpose):
Transport (MIs TP and regular combat variant) (0.24)
Attack 0
Defense 1
Move 2-3
Cost 10
1 hit
Carry 2 Infantry or 2 Mechanized Infantry OR
1 Infantry/Mechanized Infantry + 1 any ground unit
Can be taken as casualty according to owner’s choice.An interesting aspect is that DD C5 and such TP C10 (A1 D2 C15, 2 hits), is mostly similar to OOB DD+TP A2 D2 C15, 1 hit.
In addition, in such case, there is no hesitation for casualty between Cost 5 DD defending @1 and cost 10 TP defending @1.
10 IPCs might seems prohibitive. But it can be use as a way to compensate for a much cheaper warship roster which help Allies first.
Cheaper boats haste the pace for an Allies fleet built while costlier Transport delayed Amphibious assault. So, all in all this might help to keep game pace within known limits from OOB game experience.
2 other TPs from above post:
Transport (0.00)
[variant Move 3-4]
Attack 0
Defense 0
Move 2-3
Cost 7
0 hit
Taken as last casualty,
Carry 1 Inf+1 any groundTransport (reg combat variant) (0.38 or less)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 8, 1 hit, each TP also gets 1 escape roll @1]
Attack 0
Defense 1* * 1@1 for all friendly TPs group in SZ
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any ground
Can be taken as casualty according to owner’s choice. -
Upated to triplea. Added the rest of the bm rules and some map otions.
It’s under Experimental in Map Downloads “Global 40 House Rules”.
Currently have 47 “rules/options”. Gonna try and add DeGaulles neutrals next.
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@baron-Münchhausen said in G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions):
Transport (reg combat variant) (0.38 or less)
[Variant M3: Move 3-4, Cost 8, 1 hit, each TP also gets 1 escape roll @1]
Attack 0
Defense 1* * 1@1 for all friendly TPs group in SZ
Move 2-3
Cost 8
1 hit
Carry 1 Inf+1 any ground
Can be taken as casualty according to owner’s choice.@baron-Münchhausen for the ‘collective’ 1@1-per-group TP variant, is the 1 hitpoint also supposed to be ‘collective’ (e.g. max 1 hit that counts for all TP in SZ)? Or does each TP get it’s own assigned HP? Interesting balance between defenseless and meat shield, it if is collective.
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Update to 2.6 on triplea
It’s under Experimental in Map Downloads “Global 40 House Rules”.Changes the Battleship AA fire to 1 shot that hits at 1 in 10.
Added Cruisers Attack at a 4 when paired 1:1 with a Battleship.
Also adds Planes Target Naval which allows Tac Bombers and Fighters to target Cruisers and Battleships with 1 shot that hits at 2 out of 10 before regular combat.
And adds Planes Target Carriers which includes Carriers as Targets as well.
Was talking about Cruisers again with some people here a few weeks ago and said how I like to give CAs and BBs AA ability.
Even though I’ve been doing that for a few years now, it started me thinking some more about it.If one sends all planes at a Cruiser that has 2 AA shots then it’s regular combat shot, you could lose up to 3 planes in the first rd of combat.
This is the opposite of all planes against ships historically, so added the ability to have planes target the ships back.
Seems a good compromise that doesn’t give the ships AA fire an undue advantage. Although according to my test games it seemed mostly small or early round battles where Ship AA was most impactful.
Thought about it some more and realized the OOB game had the same issue. So the AA abilities and the plane targeting abilities are pretty similar odds wise.The idea was to encourage Cruiser buys without adversely affecting other Naval builds, primarily Battleships. With the Cruiser Attack 4 and Battleship AA reduced, I think it should work. However, while I’ve tested a lot of “situations” I’m still on the first full test game. And, as I’ve said before, I’m not a real good player, 🙂 so could be a flawed idea. Hopefully there are enough other Options to counter any unintended advantage. : )
Unfortunately there is a undesired side effect when “Subs Can Evade Destroyers” is active. The Tac Bombers will now attack at 2 out of 10 on Subs instead of 1 out of 6.
They also can no longer stack attacks against Subs, which is the bigger disappointment, but one I feel is worth it.
Their 2 out of 10 attack is slightly stronger than 1 out of 6, so that helps somewhat and the majority of my test games usually don’t have multiple Tac attacks on a single Sub.Another unwanted side effect was that Subs will also be one of the “Targeted” ships along with the Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers. So if you attack with Tacs and there are Subs present, the defender can use them as fodder if you get a “Targeted” hit. Attack with only Fighters and the Subs aren’t an option.
As I said above, since I’m still on my first test game, Idk if this will be a problem or not. My guess is you will want to protect your CVs with CAs for their AA ability and Subs for fodder and they’re pretty good anyways being unblocked.
DDs are cheaper than subs in the Options I use, so that helps and the Plane targeting should help. Should also encourage multi unit attacks with Destroyers and Escort ASW Carriers because they could kill the Sub/s first and then all Plane attacks would go against the Capital Ships.
Anyway, hopefully it makes for some interesting tactical decisions : )
I guess as the Zen Master saidWe’ll see 🙂
These are the Options I’ve been using. Added the CA A4 and the Plane Targeting RD 2.
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When does this AA for ships count ? First round only ? And the Tac and fig ?
d10 dice
BB @1 10%. Plane
Tac fig @2 20% ShipHave you looked at d6 dice
BB A4 D4 target plane @1 16%
CR A3 D3 target plane @1
CR.A4 D4. With BB target plane @1Tac A3 D3 target ship @1 16%
Fig. A3 D4. target ship @1
This is for every round of combat.I like where your going with plane picks target
Now you got the naval fig and naval dive and torpedo bombers like more historical without adding these planes pieces to game.
But I will be checking on how good the land Tac and fig were against navy. This is what makes Japan to strong in the air planes when you can land land planes on carriers when it should only be naval planes landing on carriers but of course this is for 40 game. Killin me still.
No lol -
@SS-GEN
yea it’s for 1st rd only. Happens before regular combat. Originally had CA getting 2 AA shots that hit at 1 in 6 but found that it’s too devastating when they hit. Probably why a lot of people play AA shots with Low Luck.
Then I decided BBs should have the ability as well so people wouldn’t go all CA, so lowered them to 2 shots at 1 in 10. Wanted them to be able to shoot at more than 1 plane still, so that’s why I lowered it.
After recent discussion on CA decided to lower BB to 1 shot so one would still be encouraged to buy more CAs from an AA perspective. Coupled with the addition of CA getting +1 A when paired with BB didn’t wanna see BB CA pairs, although I never really tested that.
Wanted the planes to be slightly stronger than the ships, since I think Defensive fleets tend to have the advantage and planes against ships historically favored the planes.
So with the CA having 2 shots at a 1 in 10 hit if there’s 2 planes they have a 19% chance of 1 hit and obviously a 10% chance if only 1 plane. 2 Planes have a 20 % chance of a hit same as 1 plane.
But you also wanna bring enough power to win the regular battle so, 1 plane might not be enough and if that CA is protecting a CV then the 2 planes have a 36% chance of a hit.
With Subs being potential fodder, this is where I’ve ended up. I haven’t tried giving the CA only 1 AA shot as I tried to model it after the Land AAgun that I use which has 2 shots. They hit at 1 in 6 although in testing it seems they may be too powerful and should be dropped to 1 in 8.
Anyway, gonna give this a go for now and see what happens :)
Yea I thought about adding the naval planes but that would take a big price, combat and move value adjustment for a lot of stuff I’d think. Probably do it some day though :)
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Ran into a couple things that needed fixing during test game. While at it I redid the math on “Planes Can Target Naval” and decided I had over compensated for the fact that Tac Bmbrs can’t stack against Subs, so changed that up.
Here’s what we have now:
When “Planes Can Target Naval” is activated Tacs and Ftrs will now hit ships at 1 in 8. Ftrs attack has been separated from Tacs so they can do joint attacks against Ships without Subs adversely affecting the battle.
Before if you attacked with say, 3 Ftrs 3 Tacs against a CA BB CV and 2 SS, the 5 Ships would undergo 5 shots and if you had 2 hits, the Sub could take both hits.
Now Ftrs attack, if they get any hits the Sub can’t take them. Tacs then attack and their hits can be taken by the Sub or the Capital ships.
Also, Ftrs Target ships at 1 in 12 on defense and Tacs 1 in 8. This is so the Tac can still shoot at Subs on defense when “SubsCanEvadeDestroyers_ChangerMustActivate” is activated.
Because of that, when “BBandCA_AA” is activated, Cruiser’s and BB’s AA will work when attacking. They hit at 1 in 12.
This can make the Battle Window a little busy, but I think one can get used to it fairly easy. Well see.Here are the odds of AA and Planes Targeting hits:
AA _ Planes
Shots _ % of Hit _ % of Hit
1 _ 10 _ 12.5
2 _ 19 _ 23.4
3 _ 27.1 _ 33
4 _ 34.4 _ 41.4
5 _ 40.5 _ 48.7
6 _ 46.9 _ 55.1
7 _ 52.2 _ 60.7
8 _ 57 _ 65.6Guess i should figure out how to make a table some day heh heh
Basically Planes Targeting has a slight advantage over the Ships AA which was what was wanted, as I feel Defensive Fleets tend to have the advantage and Historically Planes were more effective against Ships. It varies depending on the makeup of the forces though and Idk how 2 hit units and Subs will affect things, so we’ll see how it shakes out.
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What is your table based off of ? D8 or 1 in 8 hit % ?
D6 / 1 in 6
1 hit 16.7%
2 hit 33.4%D8 / 1 in 8
1 hit 12.5%
2 hit 25%D10 / 1 in 10
1 hit 10%
2 hit 20%D12 / 1 in 12
1 hit 8.3%
2 hit 16.6%Just seeing if were on aboard with numbers.
Ha the next step which you can’t do but on a board map is the planes and ships can pick there target ( no defenders choice ) before they roll.
BB CR with AA can pick a Tac or Fig and subs can pick any ship but a sub.
Tac pick any ship including sub and Figs any ship ( no sub ) but I still have my ifs on Figs picking. Got to have the air battle first before any attack. -
@SS-GEN
yea triplea is limiting but more stuff becomes possible all the time thanks to redrum and the guys.
Yea the Ships AA is 1 out of 10. Planes Targeting is 1 out of 8. So 10 sided and 8 sided. They only fire one time before the regular battle starts then they go to their normal combat values which is 6 sided.
so rolling 2 dice that hit at 1 in 10 their is a 19% of getting one “1”.
Used this guys formula
-
@vodot
Sorry, it has been a while…
In my own houseruled game, each TP is 1 hit…
The collective roll is for defense only. -
Updated to triplea and added these ideas from simon
7)German Trade With Russia
When Deactivated Germany will not receive the Trade with Russia National objective if it has any units in Original Russian Territories.Prevents Italy declaring war on Russia and taking control of Russian Territory and having Germany move Units into that territory while not at war with Russia and still able to collect the Trade National Objective.
8)Russia Spreads Communism In Africa
When Deactivated Russia will not receive the Spread of Communism National Objective for any Territories Not in Mainland Europe.Also Mursilis China rules and some of his other ideas
9)China M
Adds the Mursilis China Rules. Changes China’s National Objective to 1 PU for each Burma Road Territory that is Allied controlled. Also allows Artillery builds as long as at least 1 of Burma or India is under Allied control.If Chinese Guerrilla Fighters have been activated, they will now only spawn once All Burma Road Territories are under Axis control.
Note UK Pacific is Allied with China from the start, which allows UK Pacific Units to move into China. This is unintended and will need to be Player Enforced. May be fixed in the future.
10)China M BM
When used with the “China M” option, Chinese Guerrillas will spawn according to BM Rules .11)Italy Controls Original
Italy receives 3 PUs when it controls all of it’s Original Territories.12)USA bonus for North Africa 3 PU
Reduces the BM North Africa USA bonus to 3. Note You need to turn off the “USA bonus for North Africa” option or it will show up as well.13)Western Europe Beach Head 3 PU
Reduces the BM Western Europe Beach Head for USA bonus to 3.It’s under Experimental in Map Downloads “Global 40 House Rules”
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