Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2)

@Young:

3 German air units are attacking 2 American cruisers and 3 submarines, even though the subs can’t hit air units or be used as casualties, the subs don’t have to submerge because the air units can’t hit them even if the subs were surfaced… right?

Right, but it shouldn’t make any difference either way

I have a question.

On page 16 of the Europe 1940, 2ed edition rulebook, the section on Scramble starts with this sentence:
“Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can make at the end of this phase.”  (emphasis added)

Now here is the situation.  The neutrals are still neutral.  Italy and Germany have airbases with fighters in Gibraltar and Morocco, but there are no axis ships in z91.   ANZAC declares war on the neutrals and attacks Portugal and Rio de Oro.  Since they are not attacking any axis power, only neutral territories, would I be correct in my interpretation of the above sentence from the rulebook, which is that the axis planes cannot scramble because the axis are not the defenders in this situation?  The neutrals are the defenders; not the axis and so they cannot scramble.

You are correct.  Portugal and Rio de Oro are strict neutrals, not part of the Axis alliance.  You can’t scramble planes to defend a territory that is not part of your alliance.  So just as you said, the Axis are not defenders - their alliance is not under attack.

Interesting question!

@Gamerman01:

You are correct.  Portugal and Rio de Oro are strict neutrals, not part of the Axis alliance.  You can’t scramble planes to defend a territory that is not part of your alliance.  So just as you said, the Axis are not defenders - their alliance is not under attack.

Interesting question!

Awesome!  Thank you Gamerman  :-D

You bet, any time

Just realized there is a second part to your question - it just hasn’t come up for you perhaps

What if a strict neutral was previously attacked, and Portugal and Rio de Oro are pro-Axis?

You also can’t scramble to defend neutrals that are pro-your side, because they are neutral, they are not part of your alliance.

However, if the Allies attack Portugal and fail to conquer it, then Portugal is part of your alliance.

So let’s say USA attacks Portugal and fails to capture the territory.  Then the UK attacks Portugal.  NOW you can scramble, because Portugal is part of the Axis Alliance, due to the USA invasion.

That is the situation in which you could actually scramble to defend a territory that was originally neutral but none of your powers has actually taken control of the territory.

Perfect.  That makes sense.  Many thanks!

Hmm, so if the Germans try to land in Dutch Guiana, and the UK has fighters and an airbase on British Guyana, can they scramble into the seazone to defend the Dutch, since the Netherlands acts just like an originally true neutral that was “unsuccessfully attacked” in their colonies?

Dutch are not neutral - they are part of the Allies.  Because of that, the British air on British Guyana with an airbase absolutely can always scramble to defend Dutch Guiana.

You can’t land planes in friendly neutrals before or while you activate them, right?

Once a neutral has been attacked by the other side it is friendly to you, and you are able to land planes there (or move in AAA guns) without activating it.

If Germany attacks Yugoslavia G1 and doesn’t take, the British can land planes in Yugoslavia on UK1

By the way, triplea incorrectly offers the option to scramble when a strict neutral is attacked that shares the same sea zone.  Just choose no scramble.

@calvinhobbesliker:

You can’t land planes in friendly neutrals before or while you active them, right?

Correct.  However, once the friendly neutral is attacked by an enemy power, it is no longer neutral, so that restriction no longer applies.

Ah, now I see I misread what he asked.

I saw “you can’t land planes in friendly neutrals until you activate them, right?”

Which would be wrong, because once a friendly neutral is attacked and is not neutral any more, you can land planes there without activating.

Edited my answer to delete “Wrong”

Going back to this question

I have a question.

On page 16 of the Europe 1940, 2ed edition rulebook, the section on Scramble starts with this sentence:
"Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can make at the end of this phase."  (emphasis added)

Now here is the situation.  The neutrals are still neutral.  Italy and Germany have airbases with fighters in Gibraltar and Morocco, but there are no axis ships in z91.   ANZAC declares war on the neutrals and attacks Portugal and Rio de Oro.  Since they are not attacking any axis power, only neutral territories, would I be correct in my interpretation of the above sentence from the rulebook, which is that the axis planes cannot scramble because the axis are not the defenders in this situation?  The neutrals are the defenders; not the axis and so they cannot scramble.Â

This is an excellent question… And I am inclined to agree with both of you, however:

Europe page 16 leaves some challenging statements

“…can be scramble to defend against attacks in the sea zones adjacent to those territories”

• doesn’t specify who is being attacked.

“…they can also be scramble to resist amphibious assaults from adjacent sea zones”

• with no reference to who is being amphibiously assaulted.

I would see the argument that because the “sea zone” is essentially being attacked in the combat phase by the allies, (because the allies have combat moved into it), that the defender can scramble.

And I would use this statement to allow my scramble

“They may defend against ships even if friendly ships are not present”

“Air units belong to powers friendly to the attacked power may be scrambled by their owner if the owning power is at war with the attacking power”

and last, Europe page 12

“War must be declared on your turn at the beginning of the combat move phase, before any combat movements are made.”

Invading Portugal is an act of war, and you must declare, and as soon as you declare war, Portugal is axis friendly.

Krieg can you confirm?

@Gargantua:

Krieg can you confirm?

I can see how Gargantua may be right, but I disagree.  As I understand Gamerman’s explanation, the only ones who could scramble would be Portugal if they had an airbase and fighters, or Rio de Oro if they had an airbase and fighters, but they don’t have airbases or fighters so no scramble.  They may become “axis friendly” when ANZAC attacks them, but they are still neutral and not part of the axis.  So its not the axis’s fight and they can’t scramble.

But we would be very grateful for confirmation either way.

@variance:

I have a question.

On page 16 of the Europe 1940, 2ed edition rulebook, the section on Scramble starts with this sentence:
“Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can make at the end of this phase.”  (emphasis added)

Now here is the situation.  The neutrals are still neutral.  Italy and Germany have airbases with fighters in Gibraltar and Morocco, but there are no axis ships in z91.   ANZAC declares war on the neutrals and attacks Portugal and Rio de Oro.  Since they are not attacking any axis power, only neutral territories, would I be correct in my interpretation of the above sentence from the rulebook, which is that the axis planes cannot scramble because the axis are not the defenders in this situation?  The neutrals are the defenders; not the axis and so they cannot scramble.

Man that sounds like one weird game!

Gamerman is correct.

You don’t declare war on neutrals - you just attack them.  As the amphibious assault was being done from a friendly sea zone, there was no sea battle, so the “defender” obviously had no cause to scramble for that reason.  As for scrambling to resist an amphibious assault, since the neutral territory doesn’t join the opposing alliance until it’s actually invaded, it’s too late to scramble at that point, as the troops are already ashore.

@Krieghund:

Gamerman is correct.

You don’t declare war on neutrals - you just attack them.  As the amphibious assault was being done from a friendly sea zone, there was no sea battle, so the “defender” obviously had no cause to scramble for that reason.  As for scrambling to resist an amphibious assault, since the neutral territory doesn’t join the opposing alliance until it’s actually invaded, it’s too late to scramble at that point, as the troops are already ashore.

So this ruling establishes that an “attack” is not an “invasion”.

Page 16 of the rulebook reads

"Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can make at the end of this phase.  It must be done after all of the attackers combat movements have been completed and all attacks have been declared."

And if the attack is not considered an invasion, than things can get really exciting!  Check it out Ripley!

EXAMPLE #1
IE, USA sends 1 fighter + 5 loaded transports, vs 1 german destroyer, and declares an “attack” on Portugal.  Usa fails in the Sz, and is forced to retreat.

But because of the failure, and no US troop landings, no true neutrals were invaded and they do not become pro-axis.

EXAMPLE #2
(In probably 1% of games, you can use this ruling to produce a suicide plane movement edge, as indicated below)

The British commit to an amphibious attack on spain vz sz91 that has a less than 1% chance of success (but there is still a chance). 1 brit dst vs 3 loaded german carriers.

The British move a fighter off malta (that has an airbase this game) to Sz93 to nuke a bunch of German transports that are unescorted.

Hitler laughs and says “But my british friend, you will have no where to land!”

Churchill responds by saying, “In theory, I can move an Aircraft Carrier to Sz104, and in theory I will be -invading- spain after I defeat your navy. so my plane -could- land”

Churchill completes the move, and loses to the german navy, but gets the 5 freebie transports in Sz93.  His plane has nowhere to land so it dies.

Hitler then indicates, “Hah! Well all the neutrals are pro-axis now!”, And that’s when Churchill reminds him… “No, they aren’t, I planned an -attack-, but it wasn’t an invasion.” :)

Uh…

OK so on round 1 Germany takes Southern France and then UK leaves a pair of unescorted transports in z91.

Italy declares an attack on Spain via z93 with 1 sub, 1 transport, and 1 infantry (even though there are no allies ships in z92 or z94).  Italy also declares an attack on the UK transports with the bomber, with plans to NCM over Spain and land in South France.

So the bomber attacks the UK transports and sinks them.  Then the sub fails to sink the French ships, there is no landing, Spain remains strict neutral, and the bomber crashes.

:?

@variance:

Uh…

OK so on round 1 Germany takes Southern France and then UK leaves a pair of unescorted transports in z91.Â

Italy declares an attack on Spain via z93 with 1 sub, 1 transport, and 1 infantry (even though there are no allies ships in z92 or z94).  Italy also declares an attack on the UK transports with the bomber, with plans to NCM over Spain and land in South France.

So the bomber attacks the UK transports and sinks them.  Then the sub fails to sink the French ships, there is no landing, Spain remains strict neutral, and the bomber crashes.

:?

Exactly!