Some very excellent ideas here, thanks General for pointing me to this section!
The Research & Development Rule
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@wittmann:
Yes. I think the morale victory you gain over your opponent cannot be overlooked.
The other side getting a Tech depresses me and turns me to drink!Depending on the tech, you may be right, but most of the time I say…. So what? Especially if my opponent spent $15-$25 trying to get it.
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Yea, I spend the $5…
Except maybe not on G1, unless I’m going Barbarossa heavy.
There’s nothing like getting LONG RANGE AIRCRAFT on the first or second turn of the game, and as I recall, OOB, you get the tech right away… The repurcussions are deveastating.
The reason I don’t spend more than $5… is because each turn, you’re going to ONLY be able to secure a single tech… thus, you secure the fact that everyturn of the game, you are taking a chance at 1 tech.
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I have some of the researcher tokens from the Anniversary game. You pay for the tokens and if you don’t get a breakthrough, you can try again next round. If you DO get a breakthrough, all your tokens go back and you start from scratch.
Playing like this makes Gargantua’s idea a really good one. Each round purchase a token. Round 1 you roll 1 dice. If nothing, then round 2 you would roll 2 dice, and so on. That could be a cheap and easy way to get a tech or two without depleting your resources in one turn by trying for 5 or 6 dice all at once. -
In anniversary, you just make sure you are always rolling atleast 1 dice a turn.
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I agree, its worth taking the risk every turn for a tech that helps a lot. I used to think tech was useless and not worth it until I actually started risking it and saw that you can actually get a few techs every game and is worth it.
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The rule as stated is most defiantly an improvement over OOB. Now most nations will spend the 12 IPC. and get a roll everyturn.
Changes to the listed Techs should also be developed and if grasshopper does this, i can make a file that people can print out for their own games.
I would preclude USA and USSR from research till they are no longer neutral ( at war). That way Germany gets a head start, like they had.
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@Imperious:
The rule as stated is most defiantly an improvement over OOB. Now most nations will spend the 12 IPC. and get a roll everyturn.
Changes to the listed Techs should also be developed and if grasshopper does this, i can make a file that people can print out for their own games.
I would preclude USA and USSR from research till they are no longer neutral ( at war). That way Germany gets a head start, like they had.
12 IPCs? Did I miss something? I thought it was 5 IPCs per dice/tech roll.
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No this is a new idea, Pay 12 IPC and get a “research center” which can be bombed like a port or air base ( max 6 damage). Key feature is you get one roll for the rest of the game, but if you get a 6 you get a tech, and it takes one turn to reset before you can roll again. The other key difference is you don’t lose the investment once you win the tech.
This is Grasshoppers idea:
RESEARCH FACILITIES:
During the “purchase new units phase”, Any nation who is at war, who holds their own capital, and has an eligible territory, may purchase “research facilities” for $12 each. During the “place new units phase”, research facilities must be placed on an originally owned territory (only one per territory) with an IPC value of 3 or more.
During the “research and development phase”, each operational research facility may roll 1d6 for an opportunity to roll a 6 (only research facilities that were on the board prior to the research and development phase may make research rolls). If a facility rolls a 6 during research, they have made a technological breakthrough (regardless of how may 6s are rolled, a nation may only make 1 breakthrough per round).
When a breakthrough has been achieved, that technology is available immediately. However, 1 research facility must be flipped for one full round making it unable to roll a research dice during the next research and development phase. The facility may be flipped back during the repair phase of the following turn, making it operational again (regardless of how many 6s are rolled, a nation need flip only 1 research facility per breakthrough).
During a strategic bombing raid, research facilities (flipped or not) follow all the same damage, interceptor and repair rules as a minor complex, including built in AA Guns, and being vulnerable to strategic bombers only. If a research facility is captured by an enemy nation however, the invading player may choose to keep the facility for themselves, or have the facility destroyed in order to steal one technology from the conquered nation.
New Turn Sequence
1. Repair Units
2. Research & Development
3. Purchase New Units
4. Combat Movement
5. Conduct Combat
6. Non-Combat Movement
7. Place New Units
8. Collect New Income-
I recommend using the tokens from the A&A 50th AE as facilities, or getting some through HBG.
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A new sequence will allow for repairing, developing breakthroughs, and purchasing accordingly.
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China is ineligible to use research facilities due to purchase restrictions, and not having a capital.
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Russia & the United Kingdom are limited to building only one research facility each.
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India has 3 possible territories for building research facilities (Borneo is ineligible as it’s an island).
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America can build 3 research facilities, but like Russia, must wait until they are at war.
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The only chance for ANZAC to develop technology, is to capture an enemy research facility.
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Germany has the most eligible territories for building research facilities at 7, Italy has 2.
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I have deliberately left out any ideas for breakthrough charts because that aspect of the rule has the greatest political gap among us. I would like us to discuss the research phase only, because we can all use our own breakthrough charts later. As long as we can bridge the gap on the research phase instead of the development phase, we may have a chance to make “Laboratories” a universal house rule with a sticky post in this forum. We can talk about “Mexican Conscripts” and “Game Ending A-Bombs” in a later thread.
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This is a great idea. Will introduce this into our group. Maybe 15 ipc for the centre 12 seems a bit cheap, air base and naval base are 15….
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Ah, Research Centers. I did miss that. That is a pretty cool idea. After 3 rounds, it will have paid for itself.
Also, I like the idea that you can have more than 1 research center so even if you get a tech, you can still roll for more tech with the other centers.
Thanks for catching me up.
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This is a great idea. Will introduce this into our group. Maybe 15 ipc for the centre 12 seems a bit cheap, air base and naval base are 15….
Oh I agree BulwFi… lol
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This is a great idea. Will introduce this into our group. Maybe 15 ipc for the centre 12 seems a bit cheap, air base and naval base are 15….
Oh I agree BulwFi… lol
I like the $15 increase, 1 free roll to begin the game, and all the take over rules, but not a fan of the other stuff…… for the record, I never claimed this idea, I only wanted to refine it and make it useable within my strict group.
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Here is a new draft for consideration.
RESEARCH FACILITIES:
During the “purchase new units phase”, Any nation who is at war, who holds their own capital, and has an eligible territory, may purchase “research facilities” for $15 each. During the “place new units phase”, research facilities must be placed on an originally owned territory (only one per territory) with an IPC value of 3 or more.During the “research and development phase”, each operational research facility may roll 1d6 for an opportunity to roll a 6 (only research facilities that were on the board prior to the research and development phase may make research rolls). If a facility rolls a 6 during research, they have made a technological breakthrough (regardless of how may 6s are rolled, a nation may only make 1 breakthrough per round).
When a breakthrough has been achieved, that technology is available immediately. However, 1 research facility must be flipped for one full round making it unopperational, and unable to roll a research dice for 1 full round. The facility may be flipped back during the repair phase of the following turn, making it operational again (regardless of how many 6s are rolled, a nation need flip only 1 research facility of their choice per breakthrough).
During a strategic bombing raid, research facilities (flipped or not) follow all the same damage, interceptor and repair rules as a minor complex, including built in AA Guns, and being vulnerable to strategic bombers only. If a research facility (opperational or other wise) is captured by an enemy nation, the invading player may choose to keep the facility for themselves, or have the facility destroyed in order to steal one technology from the conquered nation. If an enemy technology doesn’t exist, the invading Nation may roll one research dice before destroying the facility.
All Nations (not China) may roll 1 free research dice during the research and development phase of the first round only.
New Turn Sequence
1. Repair Units
2. Research & Development
3. Purchase New Units
4. Combat Movement
5. Conduct Combat
6. Non-Combat Movement
7. Place New Units
8. Collect New Income -
This is a great idea. Will introduce this into our group. Maybe 15 ipc for the centre 12 seems a bit cheap, air base and naval base are 15….
Oh I agree BulwFi… lol
haha what are the chances
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Refined:
RESEARCH CENTERS (Facility)
During the “purchase new units phase”, Any nation who is at war, who holds their own capital, and has an eligible territory, may purchase “research centers” for $15 each. New research centers must be placed on an originally owned territory during the “place new units phase” (only one per territory) with an IPC value of 3 or more.
During the “research and development phase”, each operational research center on the board may roll 1d6 for an opportunity to roll on 6. If a center rolls a 6 during research, they have made a technological breakthrough (regardless of how may 6s are rolled, a nation may only make 1 breakthrough per round).
During a strategic bombing raid, research facilities follow all the same damage, interceptor and repair rules as a minor complex, including built in AA Guns, and being vulnerable to strategic bombers only. If a research center is captured by an enemy nation, the invading player may choose to keep it for themselves, or destroy the facility. If invading nation decides to destroy the existing research center, they may steal one technology from the previous owner, or roll a single research dice before removing the facility from the board.
New Turn Sequence
1. Repair Units
2. Purchase New Units
3. Combat Movement
4. Conduct Combat
5. Non-Combat Movement
6. Place New Units
7. Collect New Income
8. Research & Development -
To make it consistent with ICs, you shouldn’t be able to destroy the facility. When capturing, how about putting six damage markers on it and if you keep it until your next repair phase, you can repair it and capture whatever tech advancements the nation has achieved, then start using it.
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@Der:
To make it consistent with ICs, you shouldn’t be able to destroy the facility. When capturing, how about putting six damage markers on it and if you keep it until your next repair phase, you can repair it and capture whatever tech advancements the nation has achieved, then start using it.
I think the idea was to allow a nation to attack a territory with a research center, even if holding the territory is impossible (just to destroy the lab). It wasn’t my idea, but I think its a fun moderation and basically the only difference to the minor complex rules.
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I prefer simplicity. I prefer to have them operate like minor ICs except their bonus is one research die per turn instead of producing units. (when not damaged). I’m okay with a cap of 1 tech per turn. I’ll pass on the captured technology raid rule. I think having your enemy capture your research facility (and the free roll each turn after that) is reward enough.
Having them operate like minor ICs let’s you build them on 2 iPc territories, which is necessary if someone like Anzac hopes to ever acquire any technology.
Overall it’s a great concept.
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