Can you ignore subs during an unescorted amphibious assault?

@general-LD yes. The Sub would get to roll first and any hit would have to be allocated , before the attacker rolled his dice.

My last russian sub attacked a Jap. DD in the pacific with the help of a bomber.

This allowed the USA fleet to be unblocked and destroy the Jap. fleet.    :evil:

Don’t have revised or dday(have everything else) ….hence my ignorance…sorry

Oh, I’m not saying I proposed the perfect attack force.  Certainly if you ONLY care about the BBs and not the subs, an ALL airforce attack force would be best.  I just took the OP’s germany attack force and modulated it as he suggested - first removing the DDs (which as I expected gave him a slight improvement) and then replacing them with additional subs as he described.

when you say ‘5 bom, 1 CA, 4 sub, 0 DD against 4 BB and 4 sub is less then 7%.’ I’m not sure what you’re saying or where you get that from.  The sim I used said it would be about 9% to clear the zone completely and only about 4% possiblity that any of the BB’s survive.  Maybe I’m doing something wrong, or the Sim I’m using is buggy with its order of loss.  :?  Any hits from the fodder boats (CA, 4 Sub) would be taken first against the subs, but once those fodder boats are gone, or the subs are gone, it’s bombers against BBs. and most times it seems the Bombers should win out.

Now that I think about it, the one thing that may not be factored into the sim is that it would make sense for the defender to take any boat hit against the defending subs.  The sim probably automatically assigns the first 4 hits to damage the BBs even if they come from other boats, which would be sub-optimal, given the bombers can ONLY hit the BBs, so you want to direct any non-Bomber hits to the subs.  I guess it would take a pretty clever sim to really get good numbers on this.  :|

No, it can’t.  Just passing through the Philippines sea zone counts as two movements (one in, one out), since the fighter doesn’t actually enter the island territory.  However, attacking the Philippines territory would cost two extra movements: one to enter the Philippines from the sea zone and another to exit the Philippines back into the sea zone.

Your example would look like this:

1. Japan to sea zone 62.
2. Sea zone 62 to sea zone 60.
3. Sea zone 60 to sea zone 50.
4. Sea zone 50 to Philippine Islands.
5. Philippine Islands to sea zone 50.
6. Sea zone 50 to sea zone 49 (carrier).

As you can see, a standard fighter would be out of movement at the Philippines, with nowhere to land, making this an illegal move.

However, if the same fighter took off from a carrier in the Japan sea zone, it could attack the Philippines and land on a carrier (perhaps the same one) in the Philippines sea zone:

Sea zone 62 (carrier) to sea zone 60.
Sea zone 60 to sea zone 50.
Sea zone 50 to Philippine Islands.
Philippine Islands to sea zone 50 (carrier).

Each time a plane crosses a boundary between spaces (whether between land or sea or both), it uses one movement point.

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Krieghund already explained that it is a problem of wording, the word selected “attack” should have been “surprise strike” or “surprise firing”, if I am not making a mistake.

I am not english born but I am considering that “surprise attack” has been not used to indicate the “attack” but the roll of the dice trying to hit the enemy. I do not see the need for a specification for the sub being in defense being able to perform a surprise strike. It is a sub ability to stay hidden and strike by surprise. It do not depend by the role in the battle, the sub is  aiming to hit the enemy in both case, attack and defense, acting in the same way: lurking below the surface, hidden and dangerous.

given this logic, which I am not disputing, why then do subs defend at 1 and attack at 2?  :)

same reason why fighters attack at 3 and defend at 4  :wink:

Thank you for the answer, Kreighund

While I think the SUBs are much improved over Revised OOTB, I feel they are still to vulnerable and not very cost effective.

Do you know if Sub Detection rules or Convoy Raid type rules were ever considered, either during the development or playtesting phase.  I suppose they may have been considered too complex by either WOTC or Mr. Harris, but I do feel this is the one thing that the game is really missing.

I found that sending men in the baltic sea in AAE was a faster way to send troops out to the front which it did also i some how took leningrad on 1st turn and he was pissed because men in russia and belorussia had a choice and they had to retreat and keep a few men there. So making a bit of a navy for germany can be profitable if the russian rolls are “5’s”