NO, I agree with Questioneer here.
Japan HAS to invade with NO LESS than 11 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infnatry, 1 Armor and send at least 2 or 3 planes along to secure advancements. (Anything less does not have the power to break through the Russian defense forces and if you cannot do that, then you gained nothing.)
Thus, Japan is sending 60-70 IPC worth of units into Russia (43 IPC of which are land units) to secure 6 or 7 IPC a round (which won’t actually be 6 or 7 IPC a round until Round 5 or 6.)
Russia gets 12 IPC immediately, plus at least 3 or 4 of those IPC for the first round, 2 or 3 for the second…
China has 43 IPC less Japanese units invading it, that is HUGE, considering you’re dealing with a nation that normally can only build infantry!
A large invasion of Russia might convince England to move in early and assist China to push Japan out faster.
Japan’s already in the hole because America earns twice what Japan does and Australia has nothing better to do but reinforce America with destroyers, fighters and cruisers anyway.
Then, of course, comes the day your pittly little band of rebels encounters the vaunted Russian Army in Yen as my forces stream into your ranks from TIM crushing anything you have left and dashing the hopes and dreams of the little women you left on your island nation.
Meanwhile, Germany’s got yet more units facing it - and don’t forget, Russia gets a free infantry for every German territory it takes (3 IPC NO.) So you’re making it easier for Russia to take German territories, thus giving Russia yet more IPC.
All I need is Poland and Romania and the NOs counter my losses to Japan in the east. With the help of the Japanese invasion, I’ll probably also have Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania as well.
I dont know, getting 31 ipcs a turn vs gettign 37 does alot of damage over 4-5 turns, not counting another 6-7 from german gains. it becomes very hard for russia to hold off a 50 ipc per turn germany. And how does this give allies the tempo?
It’s giving the allies “tempo” because you’re dedicating resources to take 1 IPC lands, usually at a cost of units, which could be used to bring the conflict to India, Anzac or even the US.
Id rather have them gain income now and contest russia rather than take 4-5 turns to even reach india, which would be a fortress anyway. You dont need them in india.
I dont know, getting 31 ipcs a turn vs gettign 37 does alot of damage over 4-5 turns, not counting another 6-7 from german gains. it becomes very hard for russia to hold off a 50 ipc per turn germany. And how does this give allies the tempo?
It’s giving the allies “tempo” because you’re dedicating resources to take 1 IPC lands, usually at a cost of units, which could be used to bring the conflict to India, Anzac or even the US.
Id rather have them gain income now and contest russia rather than take 4-5 turns to even reach india, which would be a fortress anyway. You dont need them in india.
Keep in mind invading Russia gives Russia the option of reinforcing China. Granted, Japan would probably love to see this as much as Russia loves to be invaded by the Japanese, and for the same reasons.
As for India being a fortress, generally speaking, when I have Japan, India is not the problem, it’s America and Australia.
@Cmdr:
Functionetta:
I’d be glad if the people learn how to type my nick properly. It’s annoying because one ‘t’ is easier than two :lol:
I’ll have to revise alpha2 setup anyway, even if just as intelectual exercise
As Mr. Harris says, points noted :-)
Bah, 1 t, 2 t’s…my last name IRL has 2 t’s so I’m in the habbit, but they kinda always type it with 1 t…looks weird…
Keep in mind invading Russia gives Russia the option of reinforcing China. Granted, Japan would probably love to see this as much as Russia loves to be invaded by the Japanese, and for the same reasons.
As for India being a fortress, generally speaking, when I have Japan, India is not the problem, it’s America and Australia.
Thats fine if russia reinforces china, u can take more russian land, and pressure him more by forcing him to split his forces if he chooses to defend his rear and to help china. By the time russia reinforces china, china would be crippled or hemmed in a corner, then all it takes is your chinese invasion forces and your russian invasion force, plus some air to kill 2 birds with one stone. Taking the initative is key. I just have never seen russia drastically outnumber germany enough to be invading east europe with ease especially if germany goes all out for barb.
Uh, no, I can get units into Russia by the start of round 3 if you invade Russia. There’s no possible way that Japan can have a crippled China by then and Russia cannot exactly attack Germany during that time either.
So, essentially, your Siberian forces are stalemated in the north, unable to get past Yen, your Chinese forces are stonewalled by Russian, Chinese and British forces in SE Asia, and your fleet must yield the ocean to America else risk being destroyed or so hopelessly out of position Japan starts taking 11 CRD in SZ 6 and 10 more in SZ 18 (total 21 IPC in raid damage).
Or
You can focus it all on China and hope (pray) you can win.
As Japan if I were to attack Russia, I’d go through China to get there. Germany should be able to keep the USSR too busy to spend money on several fighters/Tacs to send east if you attack Siberia.
If Japan doesn’t attack the Russians they still will need to defend Manchuria from the stacks of Russian soldiers who start in the area and can attack after turn 4, so you’d still have 30+ IPCs devoted to the area with no gains.
Not I, if you don’t attack me, I still retreat my guys. I’d rather put them and 2 tanks into China.
If Japan doesn’t attack the Russians they still will need to defend Manchuria from the stacks of Russian soldiers who start in the area and can attack after turn 4, so you’d still have 30+ IPCs devoted to the area with no gains.
Russia can attack Japan on any turn it pleases. It is not restricted similar to the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact simulated with the turn 4 restriction on the Europe board.
I checked alpha2’s ANZAC NOs. They are the same as in OOB, the only difference being that Malaya+ANZAC gives 5 IPCs, not 3. Still, you need Malaya. So I think that:
Japan needs to make her historical conquests to keep the pace with USA (by round 4-5 as much). After then, Japan should kill the Asian minors (China and India), in 2-3 rounds more as much. This is that Japan should be able of do to make this balanced.
Did Japan ever have a chance in WWII? In the group I’m in always takes a real aggressive approach to Japan. The longer you wait the more the Allies have to stock pile and plan. I like the game the way it is, at least there are no nukes! When I read my WWII books I see that right after Pearl Harbor Japan goes all out for the Philippines, Malaya, Thailand, Singapore and Hong Kong. Also Guam, Midway and Wake were attacked, also Shanghai was occupied. Then on Dec 16 they invaded Brit. Borneo and Johnson Island was shelled by a Jap sub then on Jan 4 they bombed Rabaul Jan 7 they reached the border of Dutch West Borneo Jan 11 invaded Celebes . then Brit. North Borneo, then New Guinea was under attack. Jan 19 invaded New Britain, New Ireland, Dutch Borneo, and the Solomon Islands. This all happened in a very short period of time, how can Japan do all this in one move, I dont claim to have the answer for ya’ll but the one free round (before the Germany) maybe some American N.O.'s like 10$ for holding their home Island, 5$ for Iwo Jima, 5$ for Okinawa. Then there is the Tokyo express (Dest. carry 1 Inf.)
Yes, the ANZAC NO was increased from 3 to 5, so now Australia can get up to 10 IPC from NOs.
Taking and holding Malaya is all great in theory, but it’s really hard to do when you face a 600 IPC American fleet coupled with a 200 IPC Australian + British fleet (includes 3 Aussie fighters flying cap.)
You’ll eventually have to make the choice: Do I want SE Asia or do I want Tokyo?
lol ive seen an " ITS OVER 9000!!!" american fleet! between 200-300 is alot more realistic and 100 combined anzac/uk fleet
lol ive seen an " ITS OVER 9000!!!" american fleet! between 200-300 is alot more realistic and 100 combined anzac/uk fleet
200-300 American fleet implies the American player is asleep at the wheel - no offense intended.
3 Rounds of 52 IPC = 156 IPC + 129 IPC starting - 12 IPC minor Complex in Mexico (so you can put 6 ships a round into SZ 10, it’s a petty thing, feel free not too) + 52 Round 4 + 25 NO = 350 IPC fleet right there!
Add in a few more rounds of 50 IPC + 20 IPC NOs (assuming you lose Philippines and do not gain the 5 of 7 NO for some reason) and you EASILY hit a 600 IPC fleet even with trading, perhaps even 900 IPC fleet if you are conservative.
hey if america makes 0 planes thats got to be good for something, and like u said, america doe snot start with a 600 fleet, it like 6-7 turns of mall dedication to the pacific and no land units to get to that. America would have around 250 at most by the time its at war with japan, and can take all the DEI plus maylay and phil and kwang, by a DoW J3 if it wants to. I have not seen a SINGLE game where america has a 300+ NAVY goin all against Japan.
I add planes in the Pacific to my American naval total.
As I said, there’s 129 Naval Warships + 66 Planes = 195 IPC right off the bat, that’s with zero invested in new ships and planes. Add to that 3 rounds of 52 IPC (you said you attack on Round 3, so) that’s 351 IPC you have to face.
More realistically, the naval engagement will happen around turn 6, which would give America 77 + 70 + 70 more, for 568 in navy vs your little Japanese fleet.
Which, for the record, does not even count the extra stuff from Australia and England that will be helping to defend. Just add on 3 fighters, 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers and 4 Submarines to that total, in defensive forces so Japan has to attack a 568 American Fleet + 40 IPC British Fleet + 78 IPC Australian Fleet for a grand total of 686 IPC.
but with 400-500 ipc japan has to defend with, its not such a commanding advantage.
but with 400-500 ipc japan has to defend with, its not such a commanding advantage.
It sure seems to be more than enough to limit Japan to SZ 6 and it’s neighboring sea zones, thus allowing England and Australia to take the DEI, snipe Okinawa, Formosa and Iwo Jima as appropriate as well.
I used to want Australia to have DEI, now I am leaning towards India having them gain, since Australia collects 20 IPC a round anyway, that’s 2 submarines and a destroyer, all they really need to keep the Japanese fleet blocked from the American one
Well, I just never had a game where the allies do as well as from what you’ve been saying. Even with some well known people here on the allies side. Allies do have the advantage, but not a walk in the park like you say.
