Revised Global 1940: New Setup

This thread is the new home for the revised setup study and construction of a historical based setup for Global 1940.

First job is to determine the proper ratios and force pools for a June 1940 setup.

Step two is to determine where these units are located in June 1940

Step Three is to address the qualitative factors that need to compensate the totals. This can be done by a number of ways:

Examples:

1. If Japan has too few planes you can address the quality of their better trained pilots, by for example making US fighters attack at 2 for the first 1-3 rounds they are at war. This might represent the skilled pilots. Or conversely i can make tokens for the starting Japanese tactical bombers/fighters and they get some special ability as long as they are not destroyed.

2. Another example is to give Japan a first turn special attack as in AAP , where allied ships defend at 1 on the first turn they are attacked

3. Another example is Japanese transports and or naval may get a double movement on the first turn they attack USA, So they can get a jump on all these little islands and model the lightening war of her first 6 months.

4. Another example is a Russian winter rule, Bringing back oil centers, and other ideas.

Step Four is to balance the final setup and provide as many different variations as possible so that the setup is not scripted and can have many options for players. Nothing worse than getting a game where you got the drop on that perfect move…. and the game is not replayed because new strategies are not possible.

Step Five is to rigorously play-test this and provide feedback.

Step six is to then make a 1941 ( DEC) setup for a shorter game. The research on this is very good for both theaters of war.

So using your data IL, with a ratio of:

Fighter: 1:150
Tac (best I can tell): 1:150
Bomber: 1:600

Germany: 7 Fighter, 4 Tac, 2 Bomber
Japan: 9 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber
UK: 5 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber
Italy: 4 Fighter, 1 Tac, 1 Bomber

Russia/US have huge air forces, hard to tell how many units they should have based on quality/experience, but my guess is:
US: 8 Fighter, 3 Tac, 2 Bomber
Russia: 4 Fighter, 2 Tac, 1 Bomber

OK then here are some figures:

Quote
Ship Type  BB  CV  CA  DD  SS  AP  Fighter  T Bomber
Germany    1      -    1    2    2    1   
Italy          2      -    2    3    3    1   
Japan        3      2    3    5    2    4   
UK            4      2    4    8    2    6   
USSR        1            1    1    1   
France      2            2    3    3    1   
Anzac                            1   
USA        3      2    3      8    4    6   
Spain                            1      1   
Argentina                        1         
Brazil                              1   
Turkey                     
Dutch                            1

BB  3
CV  4
CA 10
DD 20
SS  30

what this chart means is take units by type and divide by 3,4,10,20, or 30

Transport. “Personnel Troop Transports”

here are some others:

AE Ammunition Explosive Ship
AF Provision Ship
AH Hospital Ship AK Cargo Ship
AO Oil Tankers

hey il, you have made some mistakes with your historical repersentation of navies. actual fleet strength around May-June 1940 is below

BB  CV  CA  DD  SS 
10  8  38  108    68    Japan
15  7  37  118  112    USA
16  6  70  214    78    Commonwealth
8    0  18    70    25    France
3    0    6    68    218  USSR
4    0  13    26    240  Germany
0    0    5    12      0    Netherlands
6    0  22    59    146  Italy
1    0    4    13    11    Turkey
2    0    7      1    14    Spain
2    0    2      7      0  Brazil
2    0    4    30      0  Argentina

now you can do any ratios you like to get to a board game amount. but you have errors in your real life fleets, one example that jumps out at me is your germany having 1 game CV (4 real life CV) when germany never had the single graf zepplin operational.

i will use a chart that shows ratios of  BB 5/1,    CV 8/3,    CA 19/1,    DD 27/1,  SS 34/1
these ratios are what larry used to convert japans real 1940 navy to pac40. i then spread it across the other powers.

BB    CV    CA    DD    SS 
2.00  3.00  2.00  4.00  2.00  Japan
3.00  2.63  1.95  4.37  3.29  USA
3.20  2.25  3.68  7.93  2.29  Commonwealth
1.60  0.00  0.95  2.59  0.74  France
0.60  0.00  0.32  2.52  6.41  USSR
0.80  0.00  0.68  0.96  7.06  Germany
0.00  0.00  0.26  0.44  0.00  Netherlands
1.20  0.00  1.16  2.19  4.29  Italy
0.20  0.00  0.21  0.48  0.32  Turkey
0.40  0.00  0.37  0.78  0.41  Spain
0.40  0.00  0.11  0.26  0.00  Brazil
0.40  0.00  0.21  1.11  0.00  Argentina

if i was to make a more historical accurate game setup i would round the navies to the following.

BB  CV  CA  DD  SS 
2    3    2    4    2  Japan
3    3    2    4    3  USA
3    2    4    8    2  Commonwealth
2    0    1    2    1  France
1    0    0    3    6  USSR
1    0    0    1    7  Germany
0    0    0    1    0  Netherlands
1    0    1    3    4  Italy
0    0    1    0    0  Turkey
0    0    1    1    0  Spain
0    0    0    1    0  Brazil
0    0    0    1    0  Argentina

Ok i revised the totals to reflect a few items. Some of them were rated ( rounded up or down) depending on quality. German pocket BB’s were placed as cruisers, old German WW1 BB’s were discounted.

Quote
Ship Type  BB  CV  CA  DD  SS  AP  Fighter  T Bomber
Germany          1      -    2    2    8    1   
Italy              2      -    2    3    5    1   
Japan            3      3    4    5    2    4   
UK                4      1    4    10    2    6   
USSR            1      -    1    3    7    1
France          2      -    2    3    3      1   
Anzac                            1   
USA              4      2      4      5    4    6   
Spain                            1                  1   
Argentina                              1         
Brazil                                                1   
Turkey                     
Dutch                                        1

BB  3
CV  4
CA 10
DD 20
SS  30

The land rations are going to be this:

Infantry (divisions divided by 5)
Artillery ( subjective)
Tanks ( Divisions divided by 2)
Mechanized ( Motorized, Grenadiers, Mechanized divisions divided by 3)

Two Brigades = 1 division and “light divisions” go as 50% rate

Fortress divisions ( subjective and heavily discounted)

As it is now France should have a total of 16 Infantry pieces, 6 Mech and 3 Tanks. Note: alot of this will be placed in colonial territories ( figure about 6 INF and 1-2 mech)

I place 3-4 artillery in french control ( leaning at 3)

Germany:
18 Infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mechanized, 3 artillery

UK:
6 Infantry, 2 tanks, 3 mechanized, 2 Artillery

BEF:
1 Mechanized, 1 Inf, 1 Artillery

Commonwealth:

India:
1 tank
2 Infantry

Australia:
1 tank,1 Infantry

Canada:
1 Infantry

African:
1 Inf

South Africa:
1 Inf

Italy:
15 Infantry
1 Tank
2 Mechanized
2 Artillery

1 Inf in Ethiopia ( colonial)

Romania:
4 Infantry, 1 Mechanized, 1 Artillery

Finland:
3 Infantry

USA:
4 Inf, 1 Tank, 1 Artillery

USSR:
25 Infantry, 4 tanks, 4 Mechanized, 5 Artillery

Japan:
10 Infantry, 1 Mechanized, 2 Artillery

( Infantry placement: 6 in China, 2 In Manchuria, 1 in Japan)

Bulgaria:
3 Infantry, 1 Artillery

Hungary:
3 Infantry, 1 Artillery

China:
11 Infantry, 1 Artillery

Please add any rules you feel are KISS and might look like something you think a good way to model some aspect of the OOB rules in a batter way.

Don’t post elaborate production cues or long winded ideas about some overkill ‘uber realistic’ way of doing combat.

All we are really doing is FIX the setup that gave us a japanese ‘death star’ with more fighters and planes than all the world combined and cheesy balancing fixes ( like 18 soviet infantry sitting on the Manchurian border). The armed forces will be represented accurately and reflect their true value in some way.

Should i start a new thread for Revised Global 40 aircraft rules?

yes do that.

Extrapolation of Armed forces 6/1/40 was done based on the following ratios:

Land:
5 infantry divisions = 1 unit
2 Armor Divisions = 1 unit
3 Motorized Divisions/ Mechanized = 1 unit
Artillery (subjective based on level of artillery in infantry and other factors)

Sea:
3 Battleships = 1 unit
4 Carriers = 1 unit
10 Cruisers = 1 unit
20 Destroyers = 1 unit
30 submarines = 1 unit
2,000,000 Gross Tons of Merchant Shipping ( rounded up) = 1 Unit

Air:
200-250 Front line Fighters = 1 unit
200-250 Front line Fighter- Bombers= 1 unit
450-500 Front line Bombers= 1 unit

Germany:
26 infantry, 5 tanks, 3 mech, 4 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 bombers, 2 tactical bombers
1 BB, 2 CA, 2 DD, 8 SS, 2 AP

Italy:
15 infantry, 1 tank, 2 mech, 2 artillery, 2 bombers, 2 fighters (1 in Italian East Africa), 1 tactical bomber.
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 5 SS, 1 AP

Japan:
10 infantry, 1 mech, 2 artillery ( from this in China, 6 inf) also, 2 Manchuria, 1 Japan)
3 BB,3 CV, 3 CA, 5 DD, 2 SS, 3 AP Land Based air: 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber. Sea Based air: 3 fighters, 3 tactical bombers

Romania:
5 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

Finland:
5 infantry, 1 artillery

Hungary:
5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank

Bulgaria:
3 infantry, 1 artillery, ( they should have 1 fighter as they had 300 fighters at end of 1940)

Sweden:
4 Infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery, 1 fighter

Greece:
3 Infantry, 1 AP

Argentina:
4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 CA

Brazil:
4 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AP

Iraq:
2 Infantry

France:
16 infantry, 6 mech, 3 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 tactical bomber (air force was not ready and mostly destroyed by June 1940)
2 BB, 2 CA, 3 DD, 3 SS, 1 AP
United Kingdom: Global
6 infantry, 3 mech, 1 tank, 2 artillery, 2 fighters, 2 bombers, 1 tactical bomber
5 BB, 1 CV, 4 CA, 10 DD, 2 SS, 8 AP

BEF:
1 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery

ANZAC:
1 infantry, 1 tank, 1 DD, 1 AP ( Australian)

Canada:
1 infantry, 1 DD, 1 AP

India:
2 infantry, 1 tank

Africa:
1 infantry

South Africa:
1 Infantry

Soviet Union:
25 infantry, 4 tanks, 4 mech, 5 artillery, 3 fighters, 1 tactical bomber, 1 bomber ( rated Soviets lower due to huge issues on quality and doctrine, but on paper they had the largest air force easily)
1 BB, 3 DD, 7 SS, 2 AP  ( on the Manchurian border:6 Infantry, 2 Mech, 2 artillery 1 tanks, 1 fighter)

United States:
4 infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery. Sea Based air: 2 fighters 1 tactical bomber Land Based air: 2 bombers, 2 fighters, 1 tactical bomber
4 BB,2 CV, 4 CA, 5 DD, 4 SS, 4 AP

China:
11 infantry, 1 artillery
**Chile:
3 Infantry

Spain:
6 Infantry, 1 mech, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 DD, 1 AP

Turkey:
5 Infantry, 1 armor, 2 artillery, 1 DD

Dutch:
1 DD

Final disposition. Now working on placement.**

Can the ratios on the aircraft be changed to put more planes on the board at start? or will that throw the balance off? Maybe every 100 fighters= 1fighter?
is there a way to balance fighter ratios based on how many planes or squadrons an carrier can hold? with your ratio 2 planes on a WW2 carrier represent 500 planes, is that correct? and if it is, were carriers at that time able to hold that many fighters?

These are just numbers based on ratios. It does not indicate the final setup or where it will be.  Also, naval air forces may include planes that are not on carriers, but for the most part the ratios reflect an equal portion of these planes to their carrier inventory. Japan for example has just enough planes for her carriers as thats what they had.