Political rules

@UN:

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Is that a 100% fact?

@SgtBlitz:

I’m thinking that if UK’s fall triggers global war dec, regardless if its G2 or G3, that should be enough as a disincentive for Germany to attempt Sealion.  Defending England from 80+ IPCs America while holding back the Reds with two full turns of built up units in Poland would be overwhelming for a German player, even with 4 major ICs chugging along.

AAE40 games the UK player might have to resign himself to always falling G2 or G3 to a determined (and lucky!) German player, but being rescued by the US on Round 3 or 4.  I mean, look at how long the French player has to sit out the game…

There probably will be an Allied bid simply because the RAF is so exposed at game start.

Dude, this nuts! How can we expect the UK to fall on turn 1 or 2? It is practically inconcievable to me… as you can by now tell. To me it would screw the game because Germany can build 10 units there on turn 3, plus reinforce it with whatever he has on the board. He will also have a sizable navy… Good luck to the US in taking back England!

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage. They should only have to wait 2 turns… or be able to attack Germany whenever they want. It seems more historical that way (waiting only 2 turns), because they should have to wait less time than the US to enter the war (providing neither was attacked).

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage.

It seems ( w/o knowing all the facts) that this German gambit against UK is just like the idea of Japan attacking US/ UK on J1.

Germany uses the Soviet peace to take out UK, then swing against Russia with no UK in a position to stop them. Here we go again?

Perhaps the Russians could choose to roll a dice after turn 1 and if they get a certain number they can declare war.

Say start of their turn 2: 5 or 6
turn 3: 3-6
Turn 4 automatic

This would force the German player to be prepared for a turn 2 or three assualt by Russian forces that would probably cost them Eastern Europe before they could turn around.  It would also make each game potentially different which makes some people upset but hey the entire game is decided by dice, so it might make a good house rule.

@Imperious:

As for Russia not being able to attack European Axis for 3 turns… I have heard this statement before, so I can only assume it is true. However I think that the USSR having to wait that long is garbage.

yea i was thinking that too
It seems ( w/o knowing all the facts) that this German gambit against UK is just like the idea of Japan attacking US/ UK on J1.

Germany uses the Soviet peace to take out UK, then swing against Russia with no UK in a position to stop them. Here we go again?

yea that is what i was thinking

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

@miamibeach:

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

I always made one turn equal 1 season.

So like example Spring 1942, turn 6 would be Summer 1943.

@miamibeach:

What time frame is one full turn(Germany to France) supposed to cover?  Half year?  Quarter?  One month?

I was told it represents 6 months… though that seems only slightly long when you assess how far (or not far) units are moving and attacking. Maybe in a global sense it is a bit more believable.

@maverick_76:

@UN:

The USSR cannot attack a European Axis power for the first three rounds.

Is that a 100% fact?

I would seriously give you the source in an instant, but I cannot find it. I know, just know, I heard it from somewhere–-either from Krieg or from Larry on his website.

I think I saw somewhere that one full turn is 6 months.  If thats true, some of our games have gone into the 1960’s.

Anyway, this game has to have some sort of semblance to history.  USSR should not be allowed to attack Germany prior to 1942.  Not only did the two countries have a deal that included trade, but Stalin thought he and Hitler would be allied for some time.  It came as a total shock to Stalin when he was told about the German invasion and he refused to believe it for some time.

If you want to make the USSR entry variable, fine, but the first three turns at a minimum Germany should be free of any USSR attack…which defeats the concept of putting more pressure on Germany.

The simple most solution is to change the at start forces even just a little.  Please keep this game at least semi-historical.

What is really crap is how little the UK starts with in their capitol.  You figure if they are already AT WAR with germany, they would keep themselves actually PROTECTED!
Honestly I would rather have one less destroyer for 3 more infantry in the UK.

Per LH

However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4. This is not to say that it can’t be at war with the Euro Axis before that moment. That depends on whether or not they are attacked by them.

However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4.

Germany has at least 2 turns if unlimited fun in Europe?  I see problems looming from this. And if Russia collect’s less than full income it might be another situation where axis attack them sooner like Japan does against the allies.

Germany takes out UK on G1 and France on G2 and attacks Russia on turn 3?

Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!

This is the same as in the Pacific where USA can’t attack Japan unless provoked for three turns. So I don’t see the problem. The political rules seem fairly historic to me.

From what I read from the Sealion thread elsewhere on this forum, it by sure means is no guarantee that Germany can take and hold UK. It requires a lot of luck (assuming top German and UK players who know what they are doing) and winning maybe 2 or 3 50% battles in a row.
I compare these kind of tactics to attacking Karelia on G1 in the old A&A 2nd and 3rd edition game (some of you probably never heard of that one…). Germany could attack Karelia, but if they lost it was game over and if they won it was game over as well. Not much fun in these kind of games now is there???

However, if it proves that a Sealion attack could reach 70-75% chance to win by optimizing it the game is definitely broken and some inf should be added to the UK. But let’s wait a few games first.

I said two turns because on turn G3 they need to regroup at the border, so thats not really a combat turn.

the truth is that germany and Soviet Union were allies during the first years of war and had a plan to divide Europe in two. And if Hitler did not take the decision to attack russia they both would have won the war.

I think a sea lion would have less than 10 % chance of success against a cautious UK.

The first turn you sink everything in the North Sea and move your fleet to sz 112 (in 111 the UK can will be able to block an invasion as you won’t be able to kill all his ships. With luck you should be able to kill everything that’s can be a problem for you in turn 2 w/o loosing any planes. You also need to kill the fleet of Canada so they can’t bring extra units to England. You land all your planes within reach of the UK. You mop up France and other places with land units. Build is 1 CV (needed to defend your fleet in range of the RAF and the Gibraltar fleet (with is very unlikely one will be able to take out) and 1 TRS (could build a bmb instead but I think the extra hit is usefull and there are already to many planes that can be shoot down by the AA).

The UK places one ship to block ur shore bombard and build 7 inf and 2 art (or 3 inf and 5 art if he is brave). Also lands his TAC in the UK.

Ur turn 3, you attack with 2 tanks, 2 inf and 8 planes. He defends with 9 inf, 2 art, 3 figs 1 tac an 1 aa. The chanse of success is less than 10 %.

Might be better to fake and attack and then not doing it, just building an CV more or less forces the UK to build inf the first turn and allows the german to keep destroying some fleet.

With the UK cruiser at sz 112, the German navy in sz 113 can’t make it to the British Isles until turn 2 at least.  Giving the UK time to build up (they can produce up to 9 infantry in the first turn) and defend their homeland.  Furthermore, if the Germans move their fleet to sz 112 turn 1 that leaves them exposed to the RAF and RN and would be pretty risky IMTO.  If they don’t move to sz 112 then the UK can put a destroyer back in sz 112 to block again even if the Germans sink the cruiser with subs/planes.  So the UK will be safe from Sea Lion for at least the first turn and most likely the second turn (barring horrible dice in a RAF/RN strike on the German BB/CA fleet at sz 112), which should give them enough time to bulk up their land defenses.

The lack of land forces in the British Isles I think is just a temptation for the Germans, just as it was historically, but the practicalities of actually getting there is the major issue.

@UN:

Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!

It is actually 3 turns that Russia has to wait… ON the 4th they may elect to attack.