Fine, so I can choose between both versions. thanks a lot fot the anserwers!
Political rules
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What is really crap is how little the UK starts with in their capitol. You figure if they are already AT WAR with germany, they would keep themselves actually PROTECTED!
Honestly I would rather have one less destroyer for 3 more infantry in the UK. -
Per LH
However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4. This is not to say that it can’t be at war with the Euro Axis before that moment. That depends on whether or not they are attacked by them.
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However, it is important to point out that Russia cannot attack a Euro Axis until its turn 4.
Germany has at least 2 turns if unlimited fun in Europe? I see problems looming from this. And if Russia collect’s less than full income it might be another situation where axis attack them sooner like Japan does against the allies.
Germany takes out UK on G1 and France on G2 and attacks Russia on turn 3?
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Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!
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This is the same as in the Pacific where USA can’t attack Japan unless provoked for three turns. So I don’t see the problem. The political rules seem fairly historic to me.
From what I read from the Sealion thread elsewhere on this forum, it by sure means is no guarantee that Germany can take and hold UK. It requires a lot of luck (assuming top German and UK players who know what they are doing) and winning maybe 2 or 3 50% battles in a row.
I compare these kind of tactics to attacking Karelia on G1 in the old A&A 2nd and 3rd edition game (some of you probably never heard of that one…). Germany could attack Karelia, but if they lost it was game over and if they won it was game over as well. Not much fun in these kind of games now is there???However, if it proves that a Sealion attack could reach 70-75% chance to win by optimizing it the game is definitely broken and some inf should be added to the UK. But let’s wait a few games first.
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I said two turns because on turn G3 they need to regroup at the border, so thats not really a combat turn.
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the truth is that germany and Soviet Union were allies during the first years of war and had a plan to divide Europe in two. And if Hitler did not take the decision to attack russia they both would have won the war.
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I think a sea lion would have less than 10 % chance of success against a cautious UK.
The first turn you sink everything in the North Sea and move your fleet to sz 112 (in 111 the UK can will be able to block an invasion as you won’t be able to kill all his ships. With luck you should be able to kill everything that’s can be a problem for you in turn 2 w/o loosing any planes. You also need to kill the fleet of Canada so they can’t bring extra units to England. You land all your planes within reach of the UK. You mop up France and other places with land units. Build is 1 CV (needed to defend your fleet in range of the RAF and the Gibraltar fleet (with is very unlikely one will be able to take out) and 1 TRS (could build a bmb instead but I think the extra hit is usefull and there are already to many planes that can be shoot down by the AA).
The UK places one ship to block ur shore bombard and build 7 inf and 2 art (or 3 inf and 5 art if he is brave). Also lands his TAC in the UK.
Ur turn 3, you attack with 2 tanks, 2 inf and 8 planes. He defends with 9 inf, 2 art, 3 figs 1 tac an 1 aa. The chanse of success is less than 10 %.
Might be better to fake and attack and then not doing it, just building an CV more or less forces the UK to build inf the first turn and allows the german to keep destroying some fleet.
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With the UK cruiser at sz 112, the German navy in sz 113 can’t make it to the British Isles until turn 2 at least. Giving the UK time to build up (they can produce up to 9 infantry in the first turn) and defend their homeland. Furthermore, if the Germans move their fleet to sz 112 turn 1 that leaves them exposed to the RAF and RN and would be pretty risky IMTO. If they don’t move to sz 112 then the UK can put a destroyer back in sz 112 to block again even if the Germans sink the cruiser with subs/planes. So the UK will be safe from Sea Lion for at least the first turn and most likely the second turn (barring horrible dice in a RAF/RN strike on the German BB/CA fleet at sz 112), which should give them enough time to bulk up their land defenses.
The lack of land forces in the British Isles I think is just a temptation for the Germans, just as it was historically, but the practicalities of actually getting there is the major issue.
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@UN:
Ah, four turns until it can’t attack. That’s even better!
It is actually 3 turns that Russia has to wait… ON the 4th they may elect to attack.
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Right, the US can declare war during the Collect Income phase of turn 3; but the Soviets can declare war before their Combat Move phase on turn 4. So essentially they can both join the war at essentially the same time. The US just gets to slightly earlier for the sake of naval battles I would assume (i.e. US ships in sea zones with British ships can now assist in defense if the Germans/Italians attack them turn 4).
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@SAS:
With the UK cruiser at sz 112, the German navy in sz 113 can’t make it to the British Isles until turn 2 at least. Giving the UK time to build up (they can produce up to 9 infantry in the first turn) and defend their homeland. Furthermore, if the Germans move their fleet to sz 112 turn 1 that leaves them exposed to the RAF and RN and would be pretty risky IMTO. If they don’t move to sz 112 then the UK can put a destroyer back in sz 112 to block again even if the Germans sink the cruiser with subs/planes. So the UK will be safe from Sea Lion for at least the first turn and most likely the second turn (barring horrible dice in a RAF/RN strike on the German BB/CA fleet at sz 112), which should give them enough time to bulk up their land defenses.
The lack of land forces in the British Isles I think is just a temptation for the Germans, just as it was historically, but the practicalities of actually getting there is the major issue.
Upon looking at the map closer, I see now that Germany can build into sz 112 from Western Germany, which will allow them to protect their fleet from a RAF/RN counter… Looking scarier now, but still no G1 UK knockout…
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In june 1940 (the game begins around that time), UK wasn’t protected at all against any kind of land attack. They had around 6 divisions at the beginning of May and lost them (or at least their material, but in a modern war it is quite the same) when fleeing from Dunkirk.
@Megaeinstein: Hitler and Stalin weren’t allies. They had a non-agression pact, and both knew that the other would eventually attack. During the 30s, the Sovits tried to establish an alliance with Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, France and UK, but thse countries (especially France, UK and Poland) weren’t that much into allying themselves with commies, even if it meant stopping Hitler.
In fact, the ones who had an alliance with Hitler until 1939 were the Polish.
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By rule, can aircraft fly over the Sahara desert on missions? ie…can the FTR in N. Italy(AB) fly on a mission to Anglo-Egypt, and land in Ethiopia?
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By rule, can aircraft fly over the Sahara desert on missions? ie…can the FTR in N. Italy(AB) fly on a mission to Anglo-Egypt, and land in Ethiopia?
No, it will be just like the Himalaya territory in Pacific 1940, a no-go zone regardless of unit type. If they had changed it, I’m sure DJensen would have mentioned it in Preview 3.
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I think a sea lion would have less than 10 % chance of success against a cautious UK.
The first turn you sink everything in the North Sea and move your fleet to sz 112 (in 111 the UK can will be able to block an invasion as you won’t be able to kill all his ships. With luck you should be able to kill everything that’s can be a problem for you in turn 2 w/o loosing any planes. You also need to kill the fleet of Canada so they can’t bring extra units to England. You land all your planes within reach of the UK. You mop up France and other places with land units. Build is 1 CV (needed to defend your fleet in range of the RAF and the Gibraltar fleet (with is very unlikely one will be able to take out) and 1 TRS (could build a bmb instead but I think the extra hit is usefull and there are already to many planes that can be shoot down by the AA).
The UK places one ship to block ur shore bombard and build 7 inf and 2 art (or 3 inf and 5 art if he is brave). Also lands his TAC in the UK.
Ur turn 3, you attack with 2 tanks, 2 inf and 8 planes. He defends with 9 inf, 2 art, 3 figs 1 tac an 1 aa. The chanse of success is less than 10 %.
Might be better to fake and attack and then not doing it, just building an CV more or less forces the UK to build inf the first turn and allows the german to keep destroying some fleet.
You’re doing this wrong. Germany can also build 2 transports G1 instead of 1 in addition to the carrier. Try reading the Sealion invasion thread.
Also something we’re thinking about: attacking Britain G1 to wipe out the poorly protected RAF with 7 air units, building a defensive fleet with a CV and 2 TRNs on SZ 112 G1 (with the 2 fig, 1 bs, 1 cru, and 1 trn already there), then sacrificing the 3 transports G2 to invade Scotland with 6 land units, forcing the Brits to divide their land forces for a G3 naval crush. G2’s build should be monster if nothing else since it contains French IPCs and Germany’s NO.
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