German buys turn one

[Imperious Leader]

If you want (you meaning others who favor it) to link up the fleets why not just buy a damm carrier and 3 trannys in the medd and avoid all of this mess?

Then you got 4 trannys and 8 men per turn right into the caucasus and africa is protected. Eventually your baltic fleet is under attack but you cant win them all. The medd is more important anyway.

[frood]

@Imperious:

If you want (you meaning others who favor it) to link up the fleets why not just buy a damm carrier and 3 trannys in the medd and avoid all of this mess?

Then you got 4 trannys and 8 men per turn right into the caucasus and africa is protected. Eventually your baltic fleet is under attack but you cant win them all. The medd is more important anyway.

I have to admit I’ve been leaning that way in the last bit too. That build might be a bit rich though, I’d do maybe 1 TRN 1 AC. If the Russian fighters are out of range, I’d skip the AC and do one or two TRNs.

One nice thing is that you can wait until after combat to decide where to place the naval units. If Egypt went exceptionally well, then maybe you’d consider putting the ships in the Baltic. If Africa will need help ASAP (prolly most of the time), then you can put it in the Med.

[Baghdaddy]

Surrender the BALTIC???  :-o :-o :-o

That 16 IPC worth of TRANny in the Baltic is definitely worth it.

• It is a deterrent against UK coming into the Baltic.
• It is a bridge to NOR and KAR, both vital spaces to keeping the UK/US from joining up with the UK
• It is a threat on UK that forces a garrison to prevent SeaLion
• It is the “fodder” part an operational fleet that could be used in an open water conflict

That is why I build 2 TRAN in the BAL on G1 and what I expect of them.

I have not yet seen a game where it was a bad idea.  Even the most agressive USSR and KGF effort still is slowed down by this move.  If anything, I might advocate a 3 TRAN build on G1 to make sure all of those points are intact on G2 if faced with truly agressive USSR and UK players.  Anything less is not as much of a deterrent.

[frood]

I still agree that a Baltic build can also be good - boy I’m all over the place here - and a Med build can also be good - but can Germany maintain two fleets - hence unification might be a good idea for overall survivability (if opportunity presents itself).

Building 2 TRN Baltic and 1 TRN 1 CV Med? That does mean NO land forces, but the naval presence helps protect the European shores too… If you were to spend all IPCS on navy, that would be the way to go I think. And then many many turns of purely Inf builds…

[squirecam]

@Imperious:

If you want (you meaning others who favor it) to link up the fleets why not just buy a damm carrier and 3 trannys in the medd and avoid all of this mess?

Then you got 4 trannys and 8 men per turn right into the caucasus and africa is protected. Eventually your baltic fleet is under attack but you cant win them all. The medd is more important anyway.

If a fleet is bought in the med, then a dd, trans and 2 subs (36 IPC) are wasted in the baltic. They will die to the UK’s air, at perhaps a 20 IPC loss.

Germany has 6 fighters. For a mere 16 IPC, that adds 11 defense to that fleet. UK/USA must spend more than that 16 IPC to destroy it.

Going to the med may be a good or bad idea, but it does nothing to take advantage of the 36 IPC you have in the baltic.

[ajgundam5]

In my game vs Jsp he did a German opening of 2 ACs + 1 Trn and placed 1 AC in Baltic and 1 AC + 1 Trn in Med. Not far into the game but it will probably be interesting. Not far into the game but I will like to see how he intends to use it.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=8784.0

[Imperious Leader]

If a fleet is bought in the med, then a dd, trans and 2 subs (36 IPC) are wasted in the baltic. They will die to the UK’s air, at perhaps a 20 IPC loss.

Germany has 6 fighters. For a mere 16 IPC, that adds 11 defense to that fleet. UK/USA must spend more than that 16 IPC to destroy it.

Going to the med may be a good or bad idea, but it does nothing to take advantage of the 36 IPC you have in the baltic.

Yes they are under direct threat of this, but you have to also accept that the allies will lose 2 fighters as well, which makes it 36 vs 20 ipcs lost and 16 net in germanys favor. Of course on uk 2 or uk 3 they may want to attack the baltic with fleet units.

Thus what about a carrier in baltic (and possible 1 tranny)?

and 2 tranny in medd.  So now you got 3 tranny in medd shucking and 2 tranny in baltic shucking.

that method wont overload the factories in germany and units can flow from both factories.

What does not make too much gains is the idea of germany attemps a link with the medd fleet. The threat is great but actually if the allies are totally determined and capable i dont see how it could be made to work given what has been presented from a G2 drop in sz#6 or 7.

Id rather no have a clash with UK and just have either one decent fleet or two active fleets moving slow land units to russia and protecting germany and the “soft underbelly of europe”

Id only venture out in some Jutland operation IF the allies had some nightmare and had to leave the atlantic or they were doing well at a KJF and Germany was also doing good in russia.The venture might make the allies run back to save england.

[squirecam]

@Imperious:

If a fleet is bought in the med, then a dd, trans and 2 subs (36 IPC) are wasted in the baltic. They will die to the UK’s air, at perhaps a 20 IPC loss.

Germany has 6 fighters. For a mere 16 IPC, that adds 11 defense to that fleet. UK/USA must spend more than that 16 IPC to destroy it.

Going to the med may be a good or bad idea, but it does nothing to take advantage of the 36 IPC you have in the baltic.

Yes they are under direct threat of this, but you have to also accept that the allies will lose 2 fighters as well, which makes it 36 vs 20 ipcs lost and 16 net in germanys favor. Of course on uk 2 or uk 3 they may want to attack the baltic with fleet units.

Thus what about a carrier in baltic (and possible 1 tranny)?

and 2 tranny in medd.  So now you got 3 tranny in medd shucking and 2 tranny in baltic shucking.

that method wont overload the factories in germany and units can flow from both factories.

I dont like the idea of trading my 36 IPc for Uk’s 20. If I got the bomber, its a wash, but this result does not always happen.

If you build AC in Baltic, and 2 trans in the med, what do you do with Egypt. Since the BB will be left behind to protect the new transports. You are left only with your 3-5 bid + lybia + air (and perhaps down a fighter). Not everyone will attack Egypt in this situation, correct?? You still need the UK BB, perhaps the DD, etc.

[Guest]

You attack in Round 1 as normal, then in G2 you smack the SNOT out of Egypt, and then raid Africa for keeps( at least for a few turns).

[Imperious Leader]

If you go the route of medd fleet then you do this on G2. On G1 you perform the usual moves and take egypt strong. G2 builds require the BB  and tranny in central medd, for for that one turn your dumping land units in lybia.

One reason why i go bomber/3 fighters and sub on UK BB is so that i kill it in one turn. I have a 33% chance (something close) that the sub is also part of the medd fleet, giving me 3 tranny,sub and bb and 6 hit fleet!

I could even use one rouge tranny as a ‘trouble maker’ and get madagaskar and other otherwise closed territories. Of course this depends on the Uk fleet and japan.

[Imperious Leader]

So how bout these builds:

G1 CV in baltic, rest land

G2 3 trannys or 2 trannys in medd , rest land or 2 tranny in medd on G2 and 1 Tranny in Baltic G2

Baltic looks decent, the hole is covered, the sealion threat still exists, Africa is sound, you still get to shuck junk to russia, everything looks fine?

The only thing is a totally commited allied strong arm against one of your fleets… otherwise you got 2 axis lakes to swim laps in.

[frood]

You can build a tranny in the med if you also build a CV there.

[Imperious Leader]

If you attack egyps and build 2 trannies in south europe those 2 trannies are under attack from a lone bomber.

Chances are they will not survive that at all and the bomber can land on gibraltar or causasus. Im not an expert on chances but i think it is a acceptable risk to have 1 bomb vs 2 trannies.

Given that this will not enable me to destroy the baltic fleet but with an AC there i cant destroy it anyway.

Building trannies on G1 in the med is basicaly not an option unless you take both gibraltar + caucassus and thus forgo egypt.

The build of those two trannys is on G2, when your BB and transport have allready helped take egypt and now they stay in central medd and dump land units and protect those 2 trannys for one turn before moving on the better things on G3.

Again the CV is going in Baltic on turn one
the new trannys and the balance of german fleet stays one turn together. For this you do not need to worry about gibrater. Egypt was taken on G1 with 2 tanks and 1 infantry still remaining and backed up with 1 art and 1 inf moved over from algeria, plus the 2 more land units dumped in africa from southern europe.

[frood]

The only problem with that is that often on G2 I have other things for the med fleet to do - hit Ukraine, TJ, Cau or retake Egypt, which take it away from that seazone. So they are not around to babysit the new tranny.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes i suppose this may be an issue, but if you wait one turn instead of landing 2 units you can now land 6. This will give those ideas alot more punch in the long run.

caucasus would fall quickly if you got 6 infantry coming over every turn. Plus africa is a nice german backyard.

not waiting for one turn to get those 2 additional transports is like sitting in a chair before the paint drys.

[frood]

One other issue is simply production - can Germany fill 4 transports in the baltic and 3 transports in the Med every round? That’s 14 Inf (42 IPCs), leaving not much for heavier stuff. And is it efficient to be dividing your pressure between Karelia and Caucasus?

[axis_roll]

@froodster:

One other issue is simply production - can Germany fill 4 transports in the baltic and 3 transports in the Med every round? That’s 14 Inf (42 IPCs), leaving not much for heavier stuff. And is it efficient to be dividing your pressure between Karelia and Caucasus?

Heavier stuff???

How about just STUFF… Period.

Yes that’s alot of transport capability… and I know you won’t use it all in most cases, but can you afford to build less/few ground units on G1 and then turn around and take even more OUT if europe on the following turns?

That’s the smell of an Allied blood letting tickling my nose…

[rjclayton]

@Imperious:

Yes i suppose this may be an issue, but if you wait one turn instead of landing 2 units you can now land 6.

But if you don’t retake Egypt on G2 then you are potentially opening the suez for the british to come to the med on B3 (depending on their location).  This could also create a problem.

[frood]

Well with those fleets the only immediate European landing zone for the allies is WE.

But yeah, 7 trns is too many for Germany to keep supplied. So if Germany were to build both fleets, I’d do 2 TRN Baltic, 1 TRN 1 CV Med.

[Imperious Leader]

One other issue is simply production - can Germany fill 4 transports in the baltic and 3 transports in the Med every round? That’s 14 Inf (42 IPCs), leaving not much for heavier stuff. And is it efficient to be dividing your pressure between Karelia and Caucasus?

OK the total investment is 40 IPC= 1 carrier and 3 transports total. In the baltic you will have 1 transport and 1 carrier more and in the medd you got 2 transports more by G2.

So the total is 5 transports which is 10 land pieces and not 14. You got 4 each turn landing in russia via baltic
and 6 landing from medd to africa/russia.

Also if UK decides to go hard against egypt with a fighter and 3 men against 2 tanks and and one infantry. I would think that would be an exchange and also India is totally weak. The german followup on G3 would be overwhelming beyond any hope. Plus on G2 the germans still have an infantry and artillery moved on turn G1 from algeria to lybia. The planes ans these 2 units would do the job IMO.