Capturing Capitals:
O.k. Russia finally falls, and was hording some a few bucks that America sent via lend lease (n.b., we play that you can’t buy infantry with it – I liked that rule). Do the Axis still get to take the money lying around like they could in OOB?
Am just curious what the thinking is since the rules of income changed. Should we just resort to AAR LHTR v2.0:
“In addition, you collect all unspent IPCs from the former owner of the captured capital. For
example, if Germany conquers Moscow while the Soviet Union’s player is holding 18 IPCs, these
are immediately transferred to Germany’s player.”
NO they just take the territories value. Soviets cannot build if they don’t have a controlled factory. So Germany will need to mop up the remaining territories. Any saved income is lost by soviet player. Lend lease money allocated that turn is considered also lost in transit from the debacle of defeat. Reasoning: Lend lease is allocated at the start of the turn, while the Soviets have lost latter in the turn.
Oh. We were operating off the “Infantry Mobilization” (e.g., LITE rules) after Russia fell and assumed you could raise infantry in the countryside. Of course, 50% of 5 bucks didn’t go far.
So when you lose your capital you can’t do:
Infantry Mobilization
You may deploy infantry units at any territory. The
number of deployable units is equal to territory income.
The number if half rounded down for captured territories.
Wow, now I’m doubly confused. I thought “Lend-Lease” was instantaneous during the “Collect Income” phase. I’m confusing AARHE 4.0 with LITE aren’t I?
Ok from now on you need to say Lite or normal AARHE because it very different.
Stalinist Xeno
@Bierwagen:
So, the discussion ensued as to why Britain couldn’t do it if they didn’t invade and only wanted to kill a “few” Germans. It wasn’t like there were any Russians there to stop them?
Its not so much as to the Russian units stopping them. Its that the Russian government don’t want Capitalist troops exerting influence over the motherland. The game does not have a rule to handle free-for-all, hence Allies are not allowed to piss off Russia if you know what I mean.
Lend-lease
I also really like the rule that Lend-Lease money can only be used for material goods and not infantry – but, it’s kinda hard to keep the money separated.
I thought we don’t have that currently.
We didn’t bother with the distinction because lend lease gaves a wide variety of weapons and supplies including those that make up infantry divisions. (According to wikipedia anyway.)
Defending ID in amphibious assault
I’m hoping that this ID attack follows the logic of “Naval Combat: Hit Allocation” and APs are the last casualty to be taken – or as was postulated IDs can selective fire at the transport and kill the amphibious landing before it happens?
No actually ID rolls are selective. The procedure is the same as its Anti-air function.
Whats it a problem for you? How many IDs were in the territory?
The probablity of a hit is only a few percent.
Dock at neutral
Should you just move your ship into the country? And if I do can I leave from a different SZ? This might cause me some headache down the road.
That rule hasn’t been tested much.
Yeah the idea is they shouldn’t occupy/block the SZ. Then have you funny things like fighters landing on docked carrier…
And we made it so if the enemy attacks your docked naval units they are attacking the neutral. They you imply funny things like a naval unit attacking a territory.
The rule probably needs to be rewritten.
Do the Axis still get to take the money lying around like they could in OOB?
Yes when you capture a capital you capture the saved income. That remains.
@Imperious:
NO they just take the territories value. Soviets cannot build if they don’t have a controlled factory. So Germany will need to mop up the remaining territories. Any saved income is lost by soviet player. Lend lease money allocated that turn is considered also lost in transit from the debacle of defeat. Reasoning: Lend lease is allocated at the start of the turn, while the Soviets have lost latter in the turn.
No its not true.
they just take the territory value is regarding collect income. The victim collects only 50% of their income on the first turn following lost of capital but the enemy do not gain the lost income.
cannot build if they don’t have a controlled factory is not correct. The only thing you can’t build without holding your capital is a factory.
Lend lease is allocated at the start of the turn, while the Soviets have lost latter in the turn. is not true. We don’t have a money-in-transit accounting system. Lend lease is allocated and delivered in your turn. You can only lose your capital in enemy turn.
You are confusing yourself with old ideas. When in doubt refer to the rules file before answering Bierwagen’s question. He is asking for interpretation of current rules.
Wow, now I’m doubly confused. I thought “Lend-Lease” was instantaneous during the “Collect Income” phase. I’m confusing AARHE 4.0 with LITE aren’t I?
Yes Imperious Leader has confused you.
Lend-Lease is instantaneous. You get it this turn not next turn.
The sentence/wording is exactly the same in this particular aspect between full AARHE and Lite.
yea sorry about that. Tekkyy knows whats up. I got many ideas form many other projects and i tend to bring in rules from these other games because i am always working on various similar games and the ideas are marginally different.
sigh. :roll:
AARHE 4.0 Technology:
Semantical problems again.
Rules concerning tech states “Each die hits on a 2.” When I originally read this, I thought “Wow! There is going to be a lot of tech in the game with free rolls”. However, the interpretation became “it ONLY hits on 2”.
I had to scratch my head on that one, and promised to ask.
Does tech now hit ONLY on a 2 or is 1 & 2?
Thanks,
AARHE: Combined US/UK assaults.
Do submarines gain “Wolf Pack” by using both US/UK submarines. We chose “yes” based on “when the number of friendly Submarines exceeds”. Is this the intent?
Can US/UK AP transport each others units for Amphibious assault, or does it follow the old rules of having to wait a turn between loading and offloading. We interpreted that the APs were interchangeable and as long as there was enough capacity you could send either US/UK units and could even mix and match (e.g., one UK INF & US ART).
Bierwagen
AARHE 4.0 & LITE:
Really need some clarity around repairing capital ships at ports. Do you toss them onto the country and out of the SZ to indict they are temporarily out of action?
Someone wanted to shore bombard into Norway with a UK BB while “repairing” in SZ 3. The argument was that they technically hadn’t “moved” and thus could repair.
Is this a correct argument? Or does combat constitute movement even if you didn’t move? My interpretation on the intent was that you are inactive for an entire turn (e.g., no retreats, moves, combat).
Building mistakes:
How do you handle mistakes if someone accidentally builds more infantry or units than they can deploy? Do you give them a refund, force them to throw it away, or help ensure they can deploy everything during build phase?
AARHE 4.0:
There seems to be the intent to not allow troops to sit at sea in a transport (e.g., must be offloaded in combat phase).
Is this to do away with the silliness of Japanese AP’s doing a quick end run from the Pacific around S. America to capture an unprotected Brazil (e.g., SZ 41-> 42 -> 25 -> 22)?
AARHE 4.0 Technology:
Semantical problems again.
Rules concerning tech states “Each die hits on a 2.” When I originally read this, I thought “Wow! There is going to be a lot of tech in the game with free rolls”. However, the interpretation became “it ONLY hits on 2”.
I had to scratch my head on that one, and promised to ask.
Does tech now hit ONLY on a 2 or is 1 & 2?
They hit on a 2 or less. Also you cant front load the techs and can only develop successfully one tech one level per turn. So you cant do that silly thing like spend all your rolls and get lucky and develop 4 successful levels of some minor tech on turn one.
So you got a 33% chance of getting one tech up one level. The strategy is to spread the rolls across different techs, like everybody is in some race to reach the finish line.
Also, note the procedure of increasing tech is just like diplomacy rolls except that uses the integers -1-2-3 etc…
AARHE: Combined US/UK assaults.
Do submarines gain “Wolf Pack” by using both US/UK submarines. We chose “yes” based on “when the number of friendly Submarines exceeds”. Is this the intent?
Can US/UK AP transport each others units for Amphibious assault, or does it follow the old rules of having to wait a turn between loading and offloading. We interpreted that the APs were interchangeable and as long as there was enough capacity you could send either US/UK units and could even mix and match (e.g., one UK INF & US ART).
part one yes. The allies work together to help each other. You need to count the total ALLIED ASW units in the SZ to determine if you got some wolfpack candidates.
Yes they are interchangeable. They cannot load on Soviet transports and vice versa.
AARHE 4.0 & LITE: DAS
If your territory is under attack, can your planes still fly out to provide DAS to an adjacent territory or are they stuck in combat in their current location?
It states that “after all combat moves are declared you may declare Defensive Air Support.” – it didn’t qualify if your territory was under attack or not.
Then a discussion ensued about Counter Air (CA) Missions. If you send in CA does a dogfight ensue, or do you both just lose that air capacity this turn while they are tied up with each other.
If you CA a country you are currently attacking it means they can’t leave to assist an adjacent country with DAS (n.b., on a 1-1 basis), but does it mean those CA’ed FTRs can’t defend the country they are in?
It quickly became confusing.
If this were the case, then I’d just send in CA to tie up FTRs so there could be no Air Supremacy and I wouldn’t have to worry about bad odds with my FTRs (e.g., Dogfight ATK 2 vs. 3 DEF).
Any help sorting this out would be appreciated.
AARHE: Neutrals
When a Neutral finally reaches +/- 5 and it’s troops deploy, is there a certain SZ that naval units are to go in or does the owner get to choose?
Example: Spain could put them in SZ 12 or 13 or both?
Turkey has the same issue with SZ 15 & 16.
AARHE: Air combat
Our assumption with air combat is that during an attack with air units, defender FTRs and BMRs scramble to engage enemy air in mortal combat over the skyies of the battlefield.
So, during one of these defensive scramble both sides had air flying headlong into each other in Opening-Fire.
Then, ID opened fired and decimated the attacking FTRs during Opening-Fire: Phase 1. This left nothing for the defending Air to shoot at in Opening-Fire: Phase 2.
So, the defender tried to argue that since his planes didn’t “engage” he was allowed to use them as Air Superiority FTRs in the Main-Round phase of combat.
We argued that this isn’t the case because both sides started the Combat Cycle with air units – regardless of what phase they got shot down in.
Who interpreted this correctly? It seems to be a semantic issue over cycle, phase, and round.
Any insights appreciated.
AAHRE 4.0 & LITE: Air Supremacy
Once Air Supremacy is achieved, do FTRs & BMRs still attack during the Opening-Fire phase? We thought they did, and when we started removing casualties before Main-Round a nasty howl went up.
So, the question is: When does air fire once Air Superiority is achieved?
Allowing air to basically have a sub pop-up attack before the casualties fire back in Main-Round seems to be pretty overpowering. Especially since they are already giving +1 to ARM.
AARHE 4.0 & LITE: DAS
If your territory is under attack, can your planes still fly out to provide DAS to an adjacent territory or are they stuck in combat in their current location?
they are stuck in that battle. This is known as pinning.
It states that “after all combat moves are declared you may declare Defensive Air Support.” – it didn’t qualify if your territory was under attack or not.
In areas where you have air units that are not under enemy attack, those planes can assist other territories under attack. The strategy is to have an air umbrella over different areas you control to facilitate DAS missions.
Then a discussion ensued about Counter Air (CA) Missions. If you send in CA does a dogfight ensue, or do you both just lose that air capacity this turn while they are tied up with each other.
Yes counter is basically the idea of attacking enemy air fields but its one round. The DAS missions can occur over many rounds, but the advantage is really to both sides. If your the attacker you may want to use CA as a means to pinning down the enemy air units, The benefit is limited because you only get one chance to attack the defender with CA. This works better when you have a smaller air force and your defending because you get to limit your loses.
To answer the question CA prohibits the defender from allocating his planes that hes defending with against your counter air mission. So he cannot use DAS to support battles.
If you CA a country you are currently attacking it means they can’t leave to assist an adjacent country with DAS (n.b., on a 1-1 basis), but does it mean those CA’ed FTRs can’t defend the country they are in?
You cannot CA a territory your already attacking. CA is for territories that your NOT attacking with ground units and ONLY by air. If your attacking a territory in conjunction with land units thats ground support mission AND a battle for air superiority occurs concurrently with the land battle each round as long as you have ground units. So the air battle is occurring separately while the land battle is going on. The air units of one side must either retreat or be destroyed BEFORE they can start attacking land units. Once either side retreats in the land battle, the air battle is also ended.
If this were the case, then I’d just send in CA to tie up FTRs so there could be no Air Supremacy and I wouldn’t have to worry about bad odds with my FTRs (e.g., Dogfight ATK 2 vs. 3 DEF).
its not the case see answer above. NO CA in territories where your attacking with land units.
AARHE: Neutrals
When a Neutral finally reaches +/- 5 and it’s troops deploy, is there a certain SZ that naval units are to go in or does the owner get to choose?
The owner gets to choose but they must be deployed adjacent to the neutral or its colonies ( if using 1939 map)
Example: Spain could put them in SZ 12 or 13 or both?
Turkey has the same issue with SZ 15 & 16.
either is possible candidate for deployment.
AAHRE 4.0 & LITE: Air Supremacy
Once Air Supremacy is achieved, do FTRs & BMRs still attack during the Opening-Fire phase? We thought they did, and when we started removing casualties before Main-Round a nasty howl went up.
YES, your starting to figure this out. Once Air Sup. is concluded all planes hits go on land units beginning on the round following the last air combat.
So, the question is: When does air fire once Air Superiority is achieved?
on the round starting when one side no longer has air units
Allowing air to basically have a sub pop-up attack before the casualties fire back in Main-Round seems to be pretty overpowering. Especially since they are already giving +1 to ARM.
Armor does not get the +1 boost in combat until that round when Air Sup is achieved. When the fight for Air Sup is going on NO modifier for Armor.
AARHE: Air combat
Our assumption with air combat is that during an attack with air units, defender FTRs and BMRs scramble to engage enemy air in mortal combat over the skyies of the battlefield.
Yes all defending planes defend for air superiority, however, bombers do not perform DAS mission. that is to say they don’t fly over to assist with defending territories.
So, during one of these defensive scramble both sides had air flying headlong into each other in Opening-Fire.
Then, ID opened fired and decimated the attacking FTRs during Opening-Fire: Phase 1. This left nothing for the defending Air to shoot at in Opening-Fire: Phase 2.
So, the defender tried to argue that since his planes didn’t “engage” he was allowed to use them as Air Superiority FTRs in the Main-Round phase of combat.
We argued that this isn’t the case because both sides started the Combat Cycle with air units – regardless of what phase they got shot down in.
how did ID rolls do this? At most your gonna lost one plane unless the other guy is rolling buckets of sixes?
he cannot use planes that were shot down in the first round. He must always wait till the second round to allow his planes to hit land units. Reasoning: on the first turn he must get air superiority and allocate defending planes against your planes. at this point they are on the air battle board. In sequence you first roll ID rolls, then settle air rolls. If by chance he got lucky and shot down 3 planes by rolling 6 six times in a row……THEN that round he got Air superiority, The next round his planes are committed to attack your land units… NOT THE SAME TURN HE GOT AIR SUPERIORITY.
