@nubnumber1 just like a fighter unit in A&A is meant to represent many aircraft,think of a destroyer unit representing a group (flotilla I think is the term) of destroyers.Military history has many examples of small,yet determined, forces delaying the progress of larger forces. eg 101st airborne in Bastogne dec 1944
How to handle the Italian fleet R1?
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@WILD:
Wow Nippon-koku I don’t think I remember a game where the Germans left the sz110 fleet alive.
I think it’s weird too. I never understand the move
I see the Germans use their BB to hit and run sz111 and the damaged Brit BB survives, but never sz110 unless the Germans get diced really really bad, but not to hit it at all just leaves too much power for the allies in the Atlantic.
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@WILD:
Wow Nippon-koku I don’t think I remember a game where the Germans left the sz110 fleet alive.
I think it’s weird too. I never understand the move
I have seen it successful. When Germany takes out 106, 109 and 111, it makes it very easy for Germany to dominate the Atlantic with subs. Removing all the DD’s makes gives the subs free reign. Then there is the convoy damage done to UK for the first 2-4 turns or more.
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@WILD:
Wow Nippon-koku I don’t think I remember a game where the Germans left the sz110 fleet alive.
I think it’s weird too.� I never understand the move
I have seen it successful. When Germany takes out 106, 109 and 111, it makes it very easy for Germany to dominate the Atlantic with subs. Removing all the DD’s makes gives the subs free reign. Then there is the convoy damage done to UK for the first 2-4 turns or more.
That’s a move I like to do as Germany. Gives them some solid convoy’s early on and a G1 buy of 5 subs can cause some panic in the Atlantic
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But 109 ( next to the UK ) will or can have 4 scrambled fighters there so no way your subs survive. And what prevents the UK from buying a few destroyers?
Though adding 5 subs on round 1 could be painfull for the UK for a few rounds.
He said they forgo attacking sz110, so I imagine they send quite a few air units into sz109 so the UK doesn’t scramble so the sub(s) would survive. I guess you could go balls to the wall on sz109 with just the two subs and try to get a hit on the first round, but that kinda defeats the purpose of convoying because your subs die when he scrambles LOL.
Seems like a lot to kill a DD and tpt (and leave the BB and 2 cruisers alive), but I can see the benefit of convoying them G1 and possibly G2. The UK could be hard pressed to build a dd UK1 because you prob still have a sub or two left in both sz109 & 106, and there is the threat of Sea Lion (UK1 pretty standard build of 6 inf+ftr). The UK would have some naval assets from sz110 though so they could get ballsy and go fleet to challenge the Germans (who don’t like to lose air units early on) :?
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Why would anyone NOT do the Taranto raid? What’s the alternative benefit from using that fleet elsewhere that can compensate for leaving Italy with opportunities to contest Africa and the ME?
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@Elk:
Even though I agree with you on the raid being incredibly strong, I wish for some alternative, so the fleets are more than just a way to ensure, you can’t plan the med too much. Every game starts with this raid and mostly the dicee decide how it’s going to turn out. I desperately hope for a viable alternative, because I don’t like linear “decisions” -
Why would anyone NOT do the Taranto raid? What’s the alternative benefit from using that fleet elsewhere that can compensate for leaving Italy with opportunities to contest Africa and the ME?
I’ve seen plenty of success without the raid. It gives up a lot of UK pieces to take Italy pieces, an exchange I don’t love as the UK player.
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A first turn German naval build would be a strong indicator to the UK to not do a Taranto raid, since to make it a strong win possibility (80% is not strong), you need to pull both fighters from the UK for the raid. Pulling both those fighters would make Sea Lion much cheaper for Germany.
Marsh
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As Italy I would always scramble the fighters for the Taranto raid. Yes, you could save them for a counterattack, but your fighters give you better odds to hit when they’re on the defense and you can’t use the German fighter on the counter anyway. The way I see it, with the scramble you’re probably knocking out most of the British units and have a good chance of knocking out some UK air (something you won’t be able to do on the counterattack because the planes usually land in Malta). Also as mentioned, it’s freaking awesome when you win on the defense. I’ve actually seen Taranto fail more often than succeed, it’s become increasingly rare in my group.
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Why would anyone NOT do the Taranto raid? What’s the alternative benefit from using that fleet elsewhere that can compensate for leaving Italy with opportunities to contest Africa and the ME?
Preserves your fleet for later use, makes yourself a constant threat to italy. Also helps to deal with Sealion Threat and gives you a better attack on tobruk.
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Why should Italy scramble and lose 2 fighters and a German one, when in a counter attack Germany should lose only one fighter???
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Most people actually do not sacrifice the Italian Air Force at this juncture since its is harder to replace. Scrambling does not give good odds…and any units you kill may have been moppable on I1-I2.
One of the best moves I’ve seen in keeping this creative is to send not just 1 German Fighter to aid SZ 97, but 1-2 German Fighters and 1 Tac to cover the Italian fleet. Then, scramble, and the losses all fall on Germany. Combining this with an Italy-Takes-Paris gambit is quite effective. The only problem is that most of the available German planes cannot both optimally attack and then also land in Southern Italy…
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Again: WHY SHOULD YOU SACRIFICE ANY AXIS PLANES IN SCRAMBLING WHEN GERMANY CAN TAKE THE WHOLE UK-FLEET OUT IN G2 WITH MINIMAL LOSSES???
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Thanks! But I still don’t agree. I don’t think the axis should risk 3 fighters, but I must say that is also because we play by different dice rules (we add up all attacking and defensing value, so there is less risk involved for the allies).
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I put a German fighter there for the option to scramble three just to force the UK to commit max assets to the attack (destroy UK surface fleet in the G2 counter instead), but I don’t actually scramble them.
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I put a German fighter there for the option to scramble three just to force the UK to commit max assets to the attack (destroy UK surface fleet in the G2 counter instead), but I don’t actually scramble them.
It is the possible scramble that forces the UK to overcommit. If they dont then you scramble if they do you dont scramble.
Sometimes it might be more beneficial to move your fleet off gibraltar and get an airbase there. Good luck germany destroying the fleet there.
Engeland can’t afford to buy one in the first round, they have to protect their homeland. Or how do you defend England, when Germany is threatening Sea Lion?
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With a sub bid (which is apparently universal) Taranto is still an 80% attack vs. scramble with no assets from England other than the bomber. So you can keep ftrs in England and max build defensively to repel Sealion while still hitting the Italian fleet.
It really does seem to compel a G1 fleet build - for the price of a carrier, sub, and DD you can give Italy chances in a key battle while forcing UK to spend its resources defensively instead of building strength in Africa, not to mention all the strategic options that open up for Germany if it can keep a fleet in the water. When G2 rolls around you’ve still got your options open and can make decisions on what to do next based on how the Allies set up defensively in round 1.
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The Germans don’t have to break through anything. They just land in SZ 109 (from SZ 112)…
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The Germans don’t have to break through anything. They just land in SZ 109 (from SZ 112)…
It takes only 1 destroyer to block that path though. so 1 more round saved for the UK
If you would only have a IC in Scotland… ;)
Where will you buy that destroyer? You cannot reach SZ 111 or 112 from 92.
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But thanks for the arguments! I’m trying the SZ 92 move in a game right now. My opponent can kill off the British ships, but decides it would cost too much. Would you or your opponents kill the British fleet at Gibraltar?
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