Good day to you, coolrunner!
The Taranto raid should not be disqualified too quickly. It is part of multiple allied strategies that back up this action.
The strategy you described also sounds valid. Why? Because it is part of a bigger picture -philosophy if you want- that backs up your UK actions here by all the other allied actions. Same counts for Taranto. ‘Tobruk’ is also a valid action which normally should exclude ‘Taranto’ and requires the allies to adapt their actions elsewhere to make the big picture work. Note that I am assuming no bid and not too much of dice-gambling.
Just remember the big picture is made of a lot of smaller pictures and the Middle East is such a smaller picture. About winning the game if you control the middle east: this usually is true, but this still depends on who controls it and when -the big picture determines if loosing this theatre is bad. For example: if Italy can take the ME early in the game, this is bad for the allies if they cannot quickly take it back. Game loosing even. If the allies can make sure that Italy only has a very short control of the region, it is not that bad.
I have also seen a lot of Japanese take the entire middle east late in the game. Almost or just all the way to (but not including) Cairo and not win the game in the end. All because the allies had made enough gains elsewhere…
I like your videos… Nice work even that i don’t agree with all of the strategies you post… now i have seen the taranto raid… It is nice, but I would never do it. first of all because that this british fleet is used to keep the control over the middeleast. 2nd you can move it do the pacific to re-take ductch east india special when you gathers it with the fleet from the pacific. This fleet gives you the mobility in the middeleast theater, so don’t vasted it on taranto. It is bad moving units out of london, it is dangerous if germany want to do a sealion…. With a lot of transporters you are able to hit Egypt and Transjordan from Iraq and south africa it one move away. you can move a lot of units around and that means you have the upper hand. You can easliy reopen the suez channel… a good buy for South africa is on transporter and 1 man + 1 art. Then move your transporters north and south, and if calcutta is under pressure move them east and west
If you build a minor industrial complex in persia the middel east is saved. biside the americans are coming and take back Gibraltar and can easy move in and take away the bonus for no ships in the mediterranean, and the same with Morocco. that is half of the Italian economy if the british are able to hold Egypt.
as a first buy for the british I buy 7 men for london and one transporter for south africa. Then i take the transporter from sz 98 and sent one man to persia right a way, because in the next round i can build a industri complex there and still 8 men from London. The reason for that the 2nd round is the one where the british have most money and can afford it… Then I move all from exept one man from alexanderia back to Egypt. Of course i kill the italien destroyer and transporter at Malta… Transporters is importent for Italy…
2nd round i can move 4 men into egypt with my transporters, that is enough to protect egypt, for that round, and with the transporters you can always get more units in there, Another thing is that everything south of Sahara can be attacked from south africa with a transporter, so it can be take back easy.
3nd round you are able to buy tanks in persia… :)
if Italy is theathen Iraq then you have to attack Iraq… If Italy is Theathen Egypt and you will loose expensive units and thinking of evacuate then do it to transjordan… Because it have the biggest value for the axis… it is 12 IPC worth for them… it is a difference of 18 IPC… Africa don’t have that amount.
If the japanese player is very skilled it will take most of the american economy to fight him, and therefore it is good to have an oppertunity to prevent italy to take the middeleast, and if you are unlucky with the taranto raid then italy can gain the hole middeleast and get a huge boost to their economy…
I have a saying the one who is controlling the middeleast is the one who is winning the game… try this out…
If Taranto works (which it should, unless Germany/Italy scramble hoping to get lucky), then Italy is not threatening the Middle East anytime soon. London is only deprived of one fighter, which can be replaced. If you don’t kill the Italian fleet, then they can merge and the Americans won’t be able to save the Med while simultaneously stopping Japan. You can still take Persia and Ethiopia turn 1 and built a transport in South Africa, and then easily take Iraq turn 2 with 5-8 troops (3 or 4 in Persia and 2 from South Africa, 2 more from Ethiopia). Being able to build the IC in Persia one turn earlier is good, but you don’t need the Mediterranean fleet to defend the Middle East, since Italy won’t be able to attack it for a long time. Going to the Pacific is slightly more helpful, but I think the US is best at that.
Of course the US is better dealing with the japanese fleet in the pacific. But this english fleet shall hold and protect is transporters. The then big thing is to distract the japanese to move against you which can make an opener for the americans… This is the dynamic in this game :) That side that are the best to move around and can keep the middeleast wins the game
Of course the US is better dealing with the japanese fleet in the pacific. But this english fleet shall hold and protect is transporters. The then big thing is to distract the japanese to move against you which can make an opener for the americans… This is the dynamic in this game :) That side that are the best to move around and can keep the middeleast wins the game
I just do not see a great allied game if the med is surrendered to italy so quickly. Italy can get a lot to africa quickly if he is left ignored.
One sigularity point allowing the game to go in one direction or the other can be linked to wether or not Italy has their battleship I1.
@Young:
One sigularity point allowing the game to go in one direction or the other can be linked to wether or not Italy has their battleship I1.
That is true… the same happens if england loses it’s fleet it is hard to replace that fleet, if germany goes after a sealion. I know Italy grow very fast in the begining. But haft of the Italian economy are placed in 3 spots. If the british hold egypt and the middeleast, Gibraltar (3 out of 4) Morroco (north african coast) and seazone 92 (no allied ships in the med) This strategy is to starve them out… those american ship placed in seazone 92 are still able to hit Normandy… Retreating the british fleet to the red sea is also a threat to the italians, because they have to fight for keeping suez closed, and they have to fight on two fronts… it is all about force the enmy to split up their armies, because they can’t protect everything…
Well round 1 what is Italy going to do with the battleship?
If you move the india air to afrika then well they can stay in port or sink the next turn to the RAF and you will still have your boats.The med fleet is a nice protection if you intend to chuck stuff from SA to Egypt.
I think The Italian battleship is going used to fight the france fleet, or as a shore bombardment in Greece… in my opinion you have to kill your enemies expensive units but only remove your cheap onces… But as long as you protect protect Egypt and the middeleast the americans can do the rest :) try it out
This video was more of a UK101 (for beginners), so I think it was ok to run with Taranto as the main focus, and let the players sort out what works best for them as they gain experience. I will say that both strats are viable, but most people would agree that Taranto is widely used.
Smashing the Italian battleship works most of the time, but because this is a dice game it comes with risks. We have all seen it go horribly wrong for the UK as well (many times for me). It probably happened to coolrunner a couple times, and that’s why he came up with this alternative (more advanced) strat to keep the Med fleet safe. It will also keep the RAF in London, which again is a more conservative, but effective deterrent for Sea Lion (as long as your UK1 builds support London).
I think it is worth mentioning a more conservative approach in the Med though. As the UK once your turn rolls around much of the Royal Navy has been sunk. Pulling back the Med fleet to save what you have left (possibly merging it w/Indian fleet) is definitely an option. As the UK you may be alone depending on the Japanese. I think it would be much harder for a beginner to wrestle the Med away from the Italians however if this approach is taken. It is likely that Italy will get 10-15 IPCs in No’s for the first couple turns (which is also very distressing to UK). It also should be noted that if you give Italy enough rope, it will most likely hang itself (meaning that when the Italian ships pull away from port they won’t have the scramble ability to defend them). So if this is the case make sure that as the UK (or later w/US) you are ready with an air strike (maybe even a weak Anz can opener attempt to get your ships back in the Med for an assault LOL).
Good talk, but I think for simplicity YG went the right way.
I think its pretty cool that YG is taking the time to put this series together. I too see some things that I might do different. For one I like to purchase mobile units for India while I have some income (sometimes 1 inf, 2 mech and a tank UK1). If the Japanese are a bit distracted I might be able to run them up through Burma into China to cause some trouble (or maybe to Russia). You know that if you move your stack of inf to Burma, you could get hit (on the coast), but mobile units might be able to move through Burma into China with air power to make a difference (even if its just taking out a couple key Japanese inf). I know that it weakens the def of India, but if they want it……
Edit:
It is also note worthy to include more info about the UK political situation on the Pac side (didn’t really touch on that). I only mention this because if it is more of a beginner game in the right circumstances declaring war on Japan on say UK2 could be worth while. Say the Japanese are dragging their feet on an attack, but maybe have some valuable inf with-in striking range at the front. UK2 DOW could be an advantage for the allies, killing off part of the Japanese inf force creating a quagmire in China. It keeps the US out for a bit, but the Japanese will be starved for units in China and could be the start of a kill Japan first strat.
I love to declare war on Japan UK2 to help China. If Japan did not build at least one IC on the mainland and Usa goes KJF, Japan is doomed! Russia and Australia must join the party too in order to make this works best.
Nice post Wild Bill, and yes… these videos are to help new players move up the strategy ladder a tad faster. My next UK strategy video will have more options, as there are some good ones emerging that challenge the Taranto raid for sure.
I like the vids they give new insights and ideas to try.
But there is also the risk of pushing the majority of the players into the same style of playing, actualy making it look they are good at strategy while they can only actualy copy actions from others.
For you next vids it would be nice to show alternative moves and their Pro-Cons. For instance having the med fleet sneak off into the red sea has the advantage of protecting transports shuttleing stuf from SA but it also gives italy a battleship and a transport. Both moves are equaly vallid and actualy fit in a overal gameplay ( just different gameplays ).And really what is italy going to do with its fleet? Move out where? if they leave the airbase you can plaster them anyway :)
And maby focus more on long term planning, you did this verry well with the Japanese vids.
I think these are some really valid points. These days everyone is doing Taranto and everyone scrambles a combination of the four; 2 italien fighters and a german figther + tac. In the unlikely event of UK not doing Taranto or the Taranto fails (which by the way suck big fat one), then what is Italy going to do with their battleship (+1 -2 cruisers)? Plenty of options!
Many new players that contact me for help on youtube have the same common issues, like Italy always dominates North Africa and the middle east… what do I do? Japan never does well so they end up abandoning China… what do we do? or, the Allies always win, do you have any house rules to help the Axis? For many experienced players, these questions can open a huge can of worms because you need to get these new players to think differentely about the game. I’m not trying to get everyone to play the same strategy (although my insistance on the Taranto raid may seem that way), I’m trying to open doors of perception to new players whom have never considered the Toranto raid, a J1 attack, or the idea of purchasing an aircraft carrier G1. They will form their own advanced strategies as they play more, I’m only helping them up the first few steps of the strategy ladder so that they’re not stuck at ground level.
If you’re in the youtube comments helping them, I should go average out the quality to what’s normal on Youtube, and start suggesting they build a Russian battleships every turn to defend sea zone 125.
@Young:
Nice post Wild Bill, and yes… these videos are to help new players move up the strategy ladder a tad faster. My next UK strategy video will have more options, as there are some good ones emerging that challenge the Taranto raid for sure.
YG… I really like your videos… Very nice job. even that i consider myself as an experience player I learn some new stuff for those videos…
but i have some questions for you. And that is how long time (number of rounds) are you guys normally playing, and another thing is that, and long game with many round most of the time benefits the allies… what do you say about that…
During the first couple of rounds you are able to get a good position for a long term game, and that means resuce your expensive units. Had you try out this strategy…
I am looking forward to your hopefully upcoming video :)
YG, I know this maybe off topic but have you consider doing 1st edition strategies? I know it’s a bit old now with people going liking 2nd edition better, but my friends have 1st edition and I don’t think they want to just change to 2nd edition rules and setup. I’m maybe going to play a game with them soon. I already have made great axis strategies making me really want to be them, but the allies are a bit hard(mostly UK since they start really weak).
@Young:
Nice post Wild Bill, and yes… these videos are to help new players move up the strategy ladder a tad faster. My next UK strategy video will have more options, as there are some good ones emerging that challenge the Taranto raid for sure.
YG… I really like your videos… Very nice job. even that i consider myself as an experience player I learn some new stuff for those videos…
but i have some questions for you. And that is how long time (number of rounds) are you guys normally playing, and another thing is that, and long game with many round most of the time benefits the allies… what do you say about that…
During the first couple of rounds you are able to get a good position for a long term game, and that means resuce your expensive units. Had you try out this strategy…
I am looking forward to your hopefully upcoming video :)
Hey Coolrunner, These are good questions and I would like to answer in depth when I have more time… I should be able to respond before Friday.
@Frederick:
YG, I know this maybe off topic but have you consider doing 1st edition strategies? I know it’s a bit old now with people going liking 2nd edition better, but my friends have 1st edition and I don’t think they want to just change to 2nd edition rules and setup. I’m maybe going to play a game with them soon. I already have made great axis strategies making me really want to be them, but the allies are a bit hard(mostly UK since they start really weak).
Hey Frederick II, Larry and his team slowly whined me off 1st edition during the Alpha project and I have never looked back. I might do a setup comparison video in the future, but 2nd edition is much better IMO, and I always recommend upgrading.
@Young:
@Frederick:
YG, I know this maybe off topic but have you consider doing 1st edition strategies? I know it’s a bit old now with people going liking 2nd edition better, but my friends have 1st edition and I don’t think they want to just change to 2nd edition rules and setup. I’m maybe going to play a game with them soon. I already have made great axis strategies making me really want to be them, but the allies are a bit hard(mostly UK since they start really weak).
Hey Frederick II, Larry and his team slowly whined me off 1st edition during the Alpha project and I have never looked back. I might do a setup comparison video in the future, but 2nd edition is much better IMO, and I always recommend upgrading.
Well when I get Global I’m getting 2nd edition when I can, but I think my friends are sticking to 1st. I think a setup comparison will be great especially with the crazy amount of aircraft that both Japan and USA start out with. Like US has 4 bombers! Japan has 24 tacs./fighters.
@Frederick:
@Young:
@Frederick:
YG, I know this maybe off topic but have you consider doing 1st edition strategies? I know it’s a bit old now with people going liking 2nd edition better, but my friends have 1st edition and I don’t think they want to just change to 2nd edition rules and setup. I’m maybe going to play a game with them soon. I already have made great axis strategies making me really want to be them, but the allies are a bit hard(mostly UK since they start really weak).
Hey Frederick II, Larry and his team slowly whined me off 1st edition during the Alpha project and I have never looked back. I might do a setup comparison video in the future, but 2nd edition is much better IMO, and I always recommend upgrading.
Well when I get Global I’m getting 2nd edition when I can, but I think my friends are sticking to 1st. I think a setup comparison will be great especially with the crazy amount of aircraft that both Japan and USA start out with. Like US has 4 bombers! Japan has 24 tacs./fighters.
The biggest setup change between 1st edition and 2nd edition IMO is the lack of air bases on Gibraltar and Malta.
Japan went from 28 planes to 21…
