There was a thread about naval cost structure started by uncrustable which has gone MIA. Did he delete it? Several of us had posted some substantial details/analysis in it, but now lack access to the information we posted. I’ve been asked by PM about links to some of the data.
Seems a bad idea to allow users to delete long threads just because some of their points are being refuted.
@Red:
There was a thread about naval cost structure started by uncrustable which has gone MIA. Did he delete it? Several of us had posted some substantial details/analysis in it, but now lack access to the information we posted. I’ve been asked by PM about links to some of the data.
Seems a bad idea to allow users to delete long threads just because some of their points are being refuted.
About 2 years ago I deleted a really long thread that many wrote on due to a bitter argument between a few members… I definitely regret removing that thread now.
The thread had gone severely off topic, for several pages.
Maybe next time you start a new thread instead of hijacking someone else’s.
I asked politely for exactly that, to no avail.
Oh well…
@Red:
Several of us had posted some substantial details/analysis in it, but now lack access to the information we posted.Â
A helpful precaution to take for threads that are of particularly high interest is to block-and-copy them into text documents (like Word or Notepad) and save them on your local computer. That way you’ll have a copy on file even if the original thread gets vaporized.
@Uncrustable:
The thread had gone severely off topic, for several pages. Maybe next time you start a new thread instead of hijacking someone else’s.
I asked politely for exactly that, to no avail.Oh well…
Off topic according to your point of view.
And you don’t let much time either (less than 24h) to be back on feet and ask other people to move posts in an other thread.
(I have done it in the past, it’s not that hard. Just take a little coordination between members. And I’m not a stubborn member on this forum, either.)
This is not twitter with fast response, it is a forum and people are writing from all around the world.
We can not predict if the answer of someone “going off topic” will be further away off or closing the point and be more narrow focusing to the topic.
It just requires a little patience.
What is gain from this act of censorship?
Their is no “pure” thread, free discussion and freedom of speech have to let some space “to explore sides topics”.
As long as there is a thread, anyone can re/move a post elsewhere.
And now, their is no thread at all…
Everyone loose in this, not just the people who wrote in it…
@Uncrustable:
The thread had gone severely off topic, for several pages.
Maybe next time you start a new thread instead of hijacking someone else’s.
I asked politely for exactly that, to no avail.Oh well…
It was not off topic! Historical comparisons make perfect sense in a history based game. You simply didn’t like the fact that several of your key points had been refuted on historical grounds and that your own statements were self-contradictory. Furthermore, you were anything but polite.
It was a classless move on your part all around. When you (Uncrustable) start threads, it would be wise of others to note that it isn’t worth spending any time doing analysis, compiling reference info for them, etc. because as soon as that analysis runs counter to your personal beliefs, you will claim it is off topic and vaporize it.
It really looks like the site should be requiring topic deletion to go through a moderator before the act is carried out. It makes no sense to allow a child to delete others’ posts because that child is having a temper tantrum.
I posted 3 different times that it was off topic, over a 2 day period.
I also mentioned that i had no interest in a history simulator, or history reenactment and that a history discussion belonged in another thread…
It sounds to me you are the one throwing the ‘temper tantrum’ as you say…
but…whatever makes you feel better ;)
I knew you can delete a thread without notice.
You made it while I brought back one of your old thread on Fighters and TcBs.
I presume it was because this could be confusing with the G40e and their was solely an exchange between us and only a few posts.
But, I never thought that you can delete a serious thread, without notice, with many peoples bringing details/analysis and, most of all, the topic being focus on the very core of all A&A ship cost system problem, not about some dubious house rule or arbitrary addition of unit on the board.
At least, a post of your intent of vaporizing the thread, if the discussion was “derailing” further to your taste, should have been the less thing to say (to do) loud and clear.
The forum, as I discover more and more, is wrongly construct like the initial poster his the “owner” of all posts within.
For the minimum respect of the “authorship” and time invested on posts and topic, the forum system should return back the post in the archive of each individual members even if the thread is erase.
Uncrustable, do you have any idea how it is like a “slap on the face” and a no consideration attitude for any collaborative thinking I and others put in an open discussion about interesting topic you brought?
Just imagine Der Kunstler erasing the most popular thread on Defenseless Transport, it would be a lost for all the community:
Anyone new to the forum, or wanting to implement something else than the OOB TT can compare his own idea with the others develop and make his mind.
If it was erased, another thread on transport will be write and it will be like reinventing the wheel, instead of reading the more interesting posts and going a little further in adding another stone to the building.
@Red:
It really looks like the site should be requiring topic deletion to go through a moderator before the act is carried out.
It could be an option, requiring at least the moderator agreement.
Or two persons posting in the thread openly announcing their intents and agreeing.
Or, simply deleting the threads but not the posts. Returning all posts to their original expediters archive. Letting everyone deciding for himself if he want to keep them or not.
Since I deleting a big thread 2 years ago (a mistake I now regret), I have changed my perspective on the issue.
1. who cares if it goes off topic, wait a few days for the conversation to die and then begin your next entry with “now that we’re back on topic…”
2. I’ve had my share of scrums with members on this forum, and I have never felt good about how angry I behaved after the fact. That said… a humble apology goes a long way around here.
3. If you want members to contribute to the discussions you create, than let them discuss what ever they want… or your threads will attract a lot of tumbleweeds.
4. If I’m in a thread and I find members with like minded opinions, I usually discuss further with them through private messaging without caring what direction the thread goes.
5. Rather than arguing about a thread that’s lost, start a new thread about the same topic. No one owns a topic, and you can always refuse to acknowledge each others future comments.
@Uncrustable:
I posted 3 different times that it was off topic, over a 2 day period.
I also mentioned that i had no interest in a history simulator, or history reenactment and that a history discussion belonged in another thread…It sounds to me you are the one throwing the ‘temper tantrum’ as you say…
but…whatever makes you feel better ;)
Then perhaps you should try playing another game, because this one has a complicated rule set/diplomacy/map/restrictions all in the interest of it being a historical game. A perfect simulator? No, but there is certainly vast room for discussion of the degree. If you don’t want discussions then don’t start new topics. Pretty simple, isn’t it?
Your claim of history being off topic was transparently self-serving and erroneous. (I seem to recall you made some sort of historical claims in the thread as well…before you unilaterally declared it off topic.) It was a blatant attempt by you to shut down discussion of multiple flaws in your conclusions. **It was also yet another example of the circular logic that others had noted about your responses on the first or second page of the thread before I even participated.
If you really believe something is off topic, while others strongly disagree, then you should ask for a moderator’s input or even that the thread be locked. If a moderator comes into the thread and says the discussion is off topic, then that is going to carry much more weight than an individual user.
What you did is generally considered vandalism in other forums. It should be treated that way here as well. Baron is correct that the forum has a faulty architecture in allowing thread creators to delete the postings of others. If you want to delete your own posts, that’s your prerogative.**
It was unilaterally agreed upon that 7,8,10,16,18 are the best prices for gameplay purposes.
The method was argued however, but the method produced near perfect results.
Regardless the end result was agreed upon, through various means.
Red I do find it amusing how much time you spent in that thread and this new thread trying to insult me, or whatever your trying to do.
We should both just move on from this incident.
Start a new thread discussing how many of which ship type each nation produced at what point in the war. Then make a stop motion movie of an A&A game being played out exactly how the war went.
You started with the insults in your thread, and not just to me. I noticed your responses early in the thread were insulting to others and it continued. My tone was in response to yours, and it was not the same tone I employed with others even when I disagreed with them.
“Unilaterally agreed upon” :? Well, that’s a beauty of a Freudian slip right there. Yes, you agreed with yourself making it “unilateral”, but others did not agree with your system.
As for what is “perfect” there was not agreement on that. Quite a few imperfections were noted with what you proclaimed to be perfect. And had you been willing to honestly discuss things, you would have understood that several of us were discussing a matter of degree in optimization of a single unit. But, hey, when you unilaterally declare a system to be “perfect” then there isn’t room for discussion.
What is really telling is that by nuking the thread you have in effect admitted that you had no answer for the concerns that were raised. In essence you validated them. That’s the takeaway.
Look the thread was moved because freaking house rules or anything not actually about the OOB rules for Global dont belong here. Check house rules.
Anything regarding software or computer related versions go in software.
Nothing was removed, just moved
If I understand correctly, there were two threads created by Uncrustable.
One of them was moved, the other deleted.
Some of the posts deleted were incredibly insightful.
The posts made by KionAAA contained one of the most in-depths-analysis and one of the most sophisticated mathematics I’ve seen on this forum.
You, Uncrustable, also reacted very unkindly to several people, as was observed by others as well already.
On a personal note, I gave up on arguing with you long ago, since in my opinion you were denying a lot of math theses, that have been proven, without giving evidence of them being wrong.
So all in all, I decided for myself, not to contribute to your threads anymore and if I am asked, I would advice others not to either.
I am sorry you feel that way about Uncrustable. I hope that you might not blame him, it is possible the truth about this was not his doing. My understanding is a person cannot just remove his threads after a few hours, instead all he can do is EDIT it to a period. Some moderator can remove the thread entirely. Perhaps just wait and not jump to conclusions just yet. Reserve an open mind. I will try to find out what actually happened.
I agreed with both Kion and you mr Roboto. And respected both of your opinions as they are insightful.
You pointed out a lot of things aswell did Kion,
However both Kion and I agreed (unless I am completely mistaken) on what are the best prices regarding gameplay/balance
And he used the math you speak on to prove it
We did initially disagree on carriers, but he was right to leave them at 16
The thread however was hijacked by red harvest
Yes deleting the entire thread was probably rash, I should have just ignored the run away train that the thread was turning into., and to Kion and baron m I apologize. Both had some very insightful posts
Maybe a mod can restore it
@Imperious:
Look the thread was moved because freaking house rules or anything not actually about the OOB rules for Global dont belong here. Check house rules.
Anything regarding software or computer related versions go in software.
Nothing was removed, just moved
IL is right, a thread created to discuss a suggested cost modification to naval units belongs in the house rules forum.
I suggested 2 weeks ago that Global house rules be allowed in this forum, however I was later convinced that it would be a bad idea because new online members would get confused about what’s a legit rule, and what’s a house rule.
This forum needs to be about questions and strategies based on Larry’s rules, wether it’s OOB, Alpha+2/+3/+3.5, or 2nd edition. Those of us that know better shouldn’t be dodging this policy just to get more members involved in their house rule suggestions.
That said… I have decided to remove my thread directing members to my custom table presentation in the customizations forum as it doesn’t belong here.
@Uncrustable:
and to Kion and baron m I apologize. Both had some very insightful posts
Good on ya.
If I understand correctly, there were two threads created by Uncrustable.
One of them was moved, the other deleted.
Some of the posts deleted were incredibly insightful.
The posts made by KionAAA contained one of the most in-depths-analysis and one of the most sophisticated mathematics I’ve seen on this forum.
It is one of my source of sadness… :cry:
He helped me thinks further deeper, and the maths was very original and showed also:
that on a statistical basis comparing units on the same IPCs basis, the more you had units, the more the odds can change. (One thing I just remember, as I write.)
These posts weren’t made in a few seconds.
