13L G40 Boldfresh vs. Jeff28 (Allies +11)

[boldfresh]

you are goinng to lose your entire atlantic fleet, and the following turn, you are going to lose London.  and you think it is equitable to ask to redo your turn in light of a couple italian bombers many turns ago, in a move that was essentially inconsequential unless the italians had cleared NW persia?  my max losses were a tank and 2 bombers.  come on jeff, think it through.

[Jeff28]

From those bombers you took Spain and put 20 ipcs of damage at least on London.

Inconsequential, yes sure.

[Jeff28]

In the matter of a couple turns you can argue both sides of a case. Amazing hypocrisy.

I would have never allowed you edit had I known your true colors.

[boldfresh]

@Jeff28:

In the matter of a couple turns you can argue both sides of a case. Amazing hypocrisy.

I would have never allowed you edit had I known your true colors.

Jeff, i asked for a re-do of that italian move ONLY because it involved an illegal move.  you will never find me asking for a re-do in any other situation, i am hugely opposed to a re-do of any move and would ONLY consider it if the move involved something illegal and was handled promptly before the game continued.

Now this situation where you are asking to go back and redo things because you now know i can wipe out your fleet, is just not right to ask at all, and especially not right to ask as though i owe it to you when the situations could not be any more clearly different.  i am sorry you feel as though i am being a hypocrite, but to me this could not be ANY MORE clear.  what you are in essence asking is “hey, i let you re-do an illegal move a few turns back, so now can you give me the win?”

because Jeff, if i don’t make the attacks i have been setting up, this game is a definite loss for me.  it may STILL be a loss, even if the attacks go as planned.  so Jeff, please reconsider the entire situation and if you still feel the same way, i am more than willing to go to third party mediation and they will of course take into account what happened in the entire game.

cheers

[gamerman01]

You guys should ask for a moderator to make a decision at this point.

Hate to see 2 nice guys have hard feelings over something like this -

you’re at an impasse if neither of you will give in.  Time to get help from someone with the authority.

[boldfresh]

@Jeff28:

From those bombers you took Spain and put 20 ipcs of damage at least on London.

Inconsequential, yes sure.

i said “essentially inconsequential” meaning that the NW persia attack was only a real game changer IF the attack had succeeded.  if i had lost the bombers, it would have hurt because yes, i wanted them for bombings of london, but it would not have been fatal.  but again, i would never have tried the attack with just the tank and 2 bombers BECAUSE the long term greater plan was to set up this move.  i would not have risked the bombers at only a 25% chance to hit your middle east stack because i already had egypt locked up.  it was a red herring anyway, the main reason i tried it was to try to scare you and divert your attention from the real plan which was to wipe out your atlantic fleets.

so even if you had forced me to lose the bombers in NW persia, then i would have asked for a moderator ruling - who knows how that ruling would have gone, impossible to say now.  but even if i had been forced to give up the bombers, it still would have accomplished the task of diverting your attention from the real goal and made you feel even more secure in the victory.

let’s just see what the moderator says.

[Jeff28]

I am now sure that you intended to use the “illegal move” argument to give you a chance to cheat, then guilt tripped me and I was gulliable enough to fall for it.

It’s amazing how you sleep at night.

[gamerman01]

@Jeff28:

I am now sure that you intended to use the “illegal move” argument to give you a chance to cheat, then guilt tripped me and I was gulliable enough to fall for it.

It’s awfully bold to go ahead and suggest that an opponent is cheating when he catches himself making an illegal move.

Why don’t you boys stop bantering and just wait for the moderator, and then play out the game like gentlemen.

This is just getting uglier and uglier, because you’re both stubbornly holding on to your positions.  Let the moderator decide, and the loser of the moderator decision needs to accept it and you all move on and put it past you.  If you don’t trust each other anymore, that’s fine, just don’t play each other voluntarily again.

[gamerman01]

Now how’s our battle in India going to go, I wonder?  :-)

[gamerman01]

By the way, for the sake of order and to prevent “I thought YOU were going to do it”

Who is contacting a moderator, and which moderator?

If neither of you has yet, I can contact one for you.

[boldfresh]

@Gamerman01:

By the way, for the sake of order and to prevent “I thought YOU were going to do it”

Who is contacting a moderator, and which moderator?

If neither of you has yet, I can contact one for you.

please contact the moderator, greatly appreciated.

[gamerman01]

I checked - Darth was last active 2 days ago.  You shouldn’t have to wait long.

I hope you won’t be upset with me if I did not present the situation exactly the way you would have liked (either of you).  I have never even opened the map.  I know what I know just from reading (part of) your arguments here on the thread.

You will probably get a chance to give your side of the story to Darth anyway, and he can look at the game situation as necessary.

[Cow]

Accepts an edit then turns around and says F U.

Seen this happen on battlemaps when people give fighters extra movements and the other dude calls em out on it.

Guess this is not a casual game.

[Jeff28]

That’s pretty much my argument in a nutshell.

I imagine I can’t win as ethics and sportsmanship aren’t required.

[DarthMaximus]

This game got out of hand.

Just so you guys know I’ve never played a whole game of G40 and have only played a grand total of one Germany turn maybe a year ago.  Although this looks more like a dispute over process rather than a rules breach (if I read the last few pages correctly).  I could probably rule on that.  But first
Jen usually takes care of all G40 league issues.  So I’m going to ask her to check in on it just in case she already has standing order in these types of disputes.

Locked for now.

[Jennifer]

In regards to the abysmal showing and the agreement on page 17 of this thread:

1. If the battle had been played legally, and this is just for future reference, those units that could make it to battle legally would be the only units used, and they would be required to engage in at least one round of combat.
2. As per league rules, you two made a deal to account for the discrepency, from what I read you were both content with it, so the matter is considered a legal move in that specific instance. 
   Therefore, I am not going to use this instance to influence my decision.

In regards to the axis/ally naval engagement that is the latest hiccup:

1. Can-opening is a legal tactic in AAG40.  Further, I would consider can-opening to not only be legal, but to be integral to how the game is played!
2. No one is alleging that the pieces engaged in the battle:
   2a) Cannot make it to the battle    OR
   2b) Were inaccurately displayed on the map.
   Therefore, I assume this is a legal engagement where one player made a disasterous mistake and it was caught by the other player.
3. This is a league game.  League games and Tournament games I call “for profit” games as you may achieve some gain by engaging in them.  Specifically, fame here.

That said, had this been a game for fun, where two players were just playing to play, I would tell you both to get the heck over it, shake hands, give Boldfresh a gentleman’s win, but reset the game back to America’s non-combat movement turn and continue play.  Unfortunately, this is a game for profit, so I have to say either hope the dice are REALLY good to the Americans, or forfeit.  Sorry to be a royal b!tch about it, and I hope there are no hard feelings, but a decision has to be made.

Please let me know within 72 hours what your decision is (play on as the board is, or forfeit the game/he forfeited the game.)

[boldfresh]

i wish to continue the game if presented with these choices.  i truly feel like this game is still very much in the balance.

jeff, what do you say?

cheers

[boldfresh]

well Jeff I guess I will go ahead and post the German turn?

[boldfresh]

well I guess I will wait to 72 hours from Jen’s comments

[boldfresh]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.6

Game History

Round :15

Politics - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 1 destroyer, 1 fighter, 1 submarine and 8 transports; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Germans
            2 armour, 3 fighters, 6 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern France to Gibraltar
            3 armour, 14 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys moved from Spain to Gibraltar
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to Gibraltar
            2 tactical_bombers moved from Yugoslavia to Gibraltar
            3 bombers moved from Egypt to Gibraltar
            1 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Ukraine
                  Germans take Ukraine from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Kazakhstan to Volgograd
            1 artillery moved from Caucasus to Volgograd
            13 artilleries moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
            12 armour and 19 mech_infantrys moved from Turkey to Northwest Persia
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Belarus
                  Germans take Belarus from Russians
            1 armour moved from Poland to Baltic States
                  Germans take Baltic States from Russians
            1 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine
                  Germans take Western Ukraine from Russians
            1 mech_infantry moved from Ethiopia to Anglo Egyptian Sudan
            1 mech_infantry moved from Egypt to Anglo Egyptian Sudan

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 1 :  0/2 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 3 :  0/2 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery in Volgograd, round 4 :  0/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 4 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery in Volgograd, round 5 :  0/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 5 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery in Volgograd, round 6 :  0/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 6 :  0/1 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery in Volgograd, round 7 :  1/1 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 infantry in Volgograd, round 7 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 artillery owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                Russians win with no units remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
                Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Battle in Anglo Egyptian Sudan
                Germans attack with 2 mech_infantrys
                British defend with 1 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 2 mech_infantrys in Anglo Egyptian Sudan, round 1 :  0/2 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 infantry in Anglo Egyptian Sudan, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                2 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans retreated to Egypt
            Battle in Northwest Persia
                Germans attack with 12 armour, 13 artilleries and 19 mech_infantrys
                British defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 12 armour, 13 artilleries and 19 mech_infantrys in Northwest Persia, round 1 :  17/44 hits
                    British roll dice for 2 infantry in Northwest Persia, round 1 :  0/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British lost in Northwest Persia
                Germans winBritish win with 1 infantry remaining, taking Northwest Persia from British with 12 armour, 13 artilleries and 19 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Battle in Gibraltar
                Germans attack with 5 armour, 3 bombers, 3 fighters, 14 infantry, 12 mech_infantrys and 6 tactical_bombers
                British defend with 2 aaGuns, 1 airfield, 1 harbour, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Americans defend with 1 armour, 8 artilleries and 15 infantry
                    AA guns fire in Gibraltar :  0/6 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 5 armour, 3 bombers, 3 fighters, 14 infantry, 12 mech_infantrys and 6 tactical_bombers in Gibraltar, round 1 :  16/43 hits
                    British roll dice for 2 aaGuns, 1 armour, 8 artilleries, 22 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Gibraltar, round 1 :  10/32 hits
                    10 infantry owned by the Germans , 14 infantry owned by the Americans and 2 aaGuns owned by the British lost in Gibraltar
                    Germans roll dice for 5 armour, 3 bombers, 3 fighters, 4 infantry, 12 mech_infantrys and 6 tactical_bombers in Gibraltar, round 2 :  17/33 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour, 8 artilleries, 8 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Gibraltar, round 2 :  7/18 hits
                    7 infantry owned by the British , 8 artilleries owned by the Americans , 4 infantry owned by the Germans , 1 mech_infantry owned by the British , 1 infantry owned by the Americans and 3 mech_infantrys owned by the Germans lost in Gibraltar
                    Germans roll dice for 5 armour, 3 bombers, 3 fighters, 9 mech_infantrys and 6 tactical_bombers in Gibraltar, round 3 :  13/26 hits
                    British roll dice for 1 armour in Gibraltar, round 3 :  1/1 hits
                    1 armour owned by the Americans and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Gibraltar
                Germans win, taking Gibraltar from British with 5 armour, 3 bombers, 3 fighters, 8 mech_infantrys and 6 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 60
                Casualties for Germans: 14 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
                Casualties for British: 2 aaGuns, 7 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Americans: 1 armour, 8 artilleries and 15 infantry

Non Combat Move - Germans
            3 fighters moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            6 tactical_bombers moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            3 bombers moved from Gibraltar to Spain
            3 aaGuns moved from France to Southern France
            3 infantry moved from France to Western Germany
            2 infantry moved from Germany to Western Germany
            7 mech_infantrys moved from Poland to Novgorod
            1 armour moved from Baltic States to Novgorod
            1 fighter moved from Vyborg to Western Germany
            1 artillery, 6 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Vyborg to Novgorod
            4 armour, 2 infantry and 12 mech_infantrys moved from Bessarabia to Eastern Poland
            2 aaGuns moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
            1 armour moved from Tobruk to Egypt

Place Units - Germans
            1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 8 transports placed in 113 Sea Zone
            1 fighter placed in Western Germany

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 1
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,4
            Germans collect 55 PUs (1 lost to blockades); end with 56 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 4 Presence In Egypt: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 61 PUs
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs
            Objective Germans 6 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 68 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs

Territory Summary for Germans :

Kazakhstan : 1 flag
    Gibraltar : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 5 armour, 1 harbour and 8 mech_infantrys
    Egypt : 4 armour and 5 mech_infantrys
    Southern France : 3 aaGuns
    France : 1 flag, 1 airfield and 1 factory_minor
    Western Germany : 1 airfield, 2 armour, 1 factory_major, 2 fighters, 1 harbour and 12 infantry
    Germany : 1 factory_major and 8 infantry
    Belarus : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Karelia : 1 flag
    Baltic States : 1 flag
    Vyborg : 1 flag
    Eastern Poland : 1 flag, 4 armour, 28 infantry and 12 mech_infantrys
    Bessarabia : 1 flag
    Ukraine : 1 flag, 1 factory_minor and 1 infantry
    Western Ukraine : 1 flag, 1 infantry
    Novgorod : 1 flag, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour, 6 infantry and 10 mech_infantrys
    Portugal : 1 flag
    113 Sea Zone : 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 8 transports
    Turkey : 1 flag
    Bulgaria : 1 flag
    92 Sea Zone : 1 submarine
    Northwest Persia : 1 flag, 2 aaGuns, 12 armour, 13 artilleries and 19 mech_infantrys
    Sweden : 1 flag
    Yugoslavia : 1 flag, 1 airfield
    Spain : 3 bombers, 3 fighters and 6 tactical_bombers
    Finland : 1 flag

Production/PUs Summary :

Germans : 56 / 78
    Russians : 21 / 29
    Japanese : 23 / 35
    Americans : 66 / 112
    Chinese : 23 / 86
    British : 36 / 36
    UK_Pacific : 2 / 0
    Italians : 21 / 27
    ANZAC : 33 / 43
    French : 2 / 0
    Dutch : 0 / 0
    Mongolians : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Axis : 0 / 0
    Neutral_Allies : 0 / 0
    Neutral_True : 0 / 0

Dice Statistics:

Total
            1 was rolled 39 times
            2 was rolled 39 times
            3 was rolled 42 times
            4 was rolled 43 times
            5 was rolled 44 times
            6 was rolled 29 times
        Average roll : 3.428
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 0.638
        Standard Deviation : 0.799
        Total rolls : 236

Null / Other
            1 was rolled 2 times
            2 was rolled 1 times
            4 was rolled 3 times
            5 was rolled 2 times
            6 was rolled 1 times
        Average roll : 3.556
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 0.875
        Standard Deviation : 0.935
        Total rolls : 9

Germans Combat
            1 was rolled 26 times
            2 was rolled 27 times
            3 was rolled 33 times
            4 was rolled 30 times
            5 was rolled 27 times
            6 was rolled 15 times
        Average roll : 3.316
        Median : 3.000
        Variance : 1.197
        Standard Deviation : 1.094
        Total rolls : 158

British Combat
            1 was rolled 9 times
            2 was rolled 10 times
            3 was rolled 9 times
            4 was rolled 7 times
            5 was rolled 13 times
            6 was rolled 12 times
        Average roll : 3.683
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 0.407
        Standard Deviation : 0.638
        Total rolls : 60

Russians Combat
            1 was rolled 2 times
            2 was rolled 1 times
            4 was rolled 3 times
            5 was rolled 2 times
            6 was rolled 1 times
        Average roll : 3.556
        Median : 4.000
        Variance : 0.875
        Standard Deviation : 0.935
        Total rolls : 9