Faking Barbarossa

[Young Grasshopper]

An interesting development in my game today that I thought I would share.

I was the axis and I executed my normal G1 which is to attack the British navy, France, and to take out Russia’s 7 infantry, than I attack the Pacific allies using Cow’s J1 strategy. During the G1 attack in todays game, the UK scrambled planes and lost 2, and than after my J1 attack, the UK bought a minor complex and placed it in Egypt.

I felt annoyed that my opponent assumed so quickly that Sealion was off the table, just because I attacked Russia G1. I remember that some critics of this German strategy say that you have to at least fake Sealion to prevent them from scrambling and building a complex in Egypt. My question is, if you saw the UK lose 2 fighters in a scramble and than build a IC in Egypt round one…. wouldn’t you attempt Sealion weather or not you brought Russia in to the war or not? …Exactly.

I decided to make my enemy pay, and planned a round 5 Sealion which worked to perfection. The Germans and Russians had a war of attrition for Russia’s minor factories, and Germany’s starting units proved more than enough to keep them off original German territories until the secret plan was revealed. Even though I had to conceal my intentions by saving $25 in round 3, by the time the Russians gained their ground back, Germany had Britian’s capital money and were ready to lay down 20 land units to deal with the threat.

It was great to fight Russian’s along the same line that was fought at the beginning of the game anyway. Even when I gave up Slovakia twice during a seesaw battle in the south, it was close to my factories and I was rich with $100 after taking London. My point is… What started out as a typical G1 Barbarrosa attack for me, turned out to be an unintentional Barbarrosa fake, and with great gains in the Pacific… I eventually got a surrender out of my more than competent rival in round 8.

It used to weigh on me that there was a need for this Sealion fake everyone talks about, and that maybe my G1 attack was foolish, but there are more than enough starting units for Germany to keep Russia busy if Germany ever wanted to make an audible play.

Here’s my record for G1 attacks on Russia, 6/2/3 (one loss was Japan’s fault).

[variance]

Hmmm so if Germany attacks Russia hardcore on G1, the normal thing will be that Russia moves everything East and builds infantry instead of tank/mechs right?

[Young Grasshopper]

@variance:

Hmmm so if Germany attacks Russia hardcore on G1, the normal thing will be that Russia moves everything East and builds infantry instead of tank/mechs right?

Is there a standard Russian strategy when attacked during G1? I’ve seen many opponents counter, and than buy tanks and artillery to counter some more. I don’t play many Russian players who buy a lot of Infantry and retreat…. I’m sure as Germany, I would be OK with that because I always hold up and form my own defensive line when I control Russia’s minor complexes in the north and south. I use those new ICs to out produce Moscow while I take care of developments in the Med and Atlantic without spreading thin into deep Russian territories that are only worth a buck each.

Besides… Germany can’t really hit Russia “hardcore” on G1 anyway, but it’s enough to destroy 7 infantry, and to entice a counter attack which brings Russian units closer to Germany’s wheel house.

[variance]

Could there be some way to attack Russia G1 that tends to make them pull back?  And maybe UK not build infantry to defend against a 10 transport sealion?

[Young Grasshopper]

@variance:

Could there be some way to attack Russia G1 that tends to make them pull back?  And maybe UK not build infantry to defend against a 10 transport sealion?

If there is, I’m not aware of it, the way I attack Russia G1 is by conducting 3 somewhat hairy battles, Germany can’t make a “dominating” attack on Russia G1 IMO.

A smart player will buy 6 infantry and 1 fighter during UK1 no matter what the landscape looks like. Thats why I was perturbed by the audacity of my opponent to think he could scramble and build a IC in Africa UK1 without facing a Sealion threat.

[variance]

Hmmm lots of food for thought here.  Thanks grasshopper.  :-)

[Zhukov44]

Whether the Egy complex was a good move basically depends on your buy–if Germany bought all land units it was a decent move but if Germany bought air/navy it was a bad move.  I can’t say it’s a bad move if Germany bought land units because with a G1/J1 as you describe the task of Sea Lion will/would be a tough one.

It sounds like UK had plenty of time to build up forces on UK (if you didn’t build the mass of transports until G4)…if they didn’t that was a mistake.  Also, Germany saving alot of money on G3 ought to have been an indication that USA should invest in the Atlantic on USA3.

Sounds like a fun game; congrats on your win.

[Eqqman]

@Young:

A smart player will buy 6 infantry and 1 fighter during UK1 no matter what the landscape looks like. Thats why I was perturbed by the audacity of my opponent to think he could scramble and build a IC in Africa UK1 without facing a Sealion threat.

I find this statement amusing and disagree with it.  Amused that someone would get annoyed that their opponent doesn’t follow a script… which is exactly what a smart player would do.  The really smart players will be trying to figure out how to win by not doing what was expected of them.  Sticking to a script that apparently doesn’t lead to an Allied victory unless you have some kind of bid going doesn’t sound like a recipe for success.

I still haven’t managed to get enough games in to prove any of my own theories correct, but it seems quite logical to avoid buffing London too much UK1/2 so that you actually encourage a German attack.  If the German player had started out making plans for Moscow but then changes gears because you tempted them into the UK attack, then you’ve saved Russia for a few extra turns, which could be just what you need to buy time for the US to save the day.  Of course, this does rely on the fact that you need to be prepared to face the consequences if the attack takes place and you lose, and it sounds like maybe the opponent in the OP’s game didn’t do this.

The J1 DoW probably forces enough US attention into the Pacific that you probably can’t take these risks with the UK, but I don’t know if that warplan has been studied enough to say for sure.

[Young Grasshopper]

@eqqman

Your reaction to my statement insisting what “smart people do” is justifiable, and I apologize for making such a judgment. Yes… I agree that scripted strategies are claustrophobic and narrow minded when surveying the game board. However, it is my opinion that building 6 infantry and 1 fighter on London UK1 is a strong preventative measure to bridging the gap that allows for a possible Sealion attack. What I should have said was… in most circumstances, I think these units are the responsible units to build UK1. I made a mistake generalizing intelligence based on chosen strategies, and I sincerely apologize.

I won’t however, apologize by being annoyed by my opponent (friend). We play each other all the time and we know each others tendencies well, he thought I wouldn’t have the stones to change my plans or even attempt Sealion. Even when I stopped buying land units, he didn’t give me much defence, and trust me when I say that he didn’t want me taking London. He just thought I wouldn’t do it because I wanted to try an Italian strategy I’ve been working on, so he knowingly bummed it by building a factory turn one. My reaction of course was to go for sealion, but I wanted to also try a different Russian offensive… therefore, I was annoyed. That stuff is between us anyway, and has nothing to do with strategies or how to play… we have been playing together for 14 years and I’m sure it annoyed him when Japan was making $72 in the last round because It was the first time I used Cow’s J1 on him.

All that said, personally, and in my own opinion, I don’t think it is a good idea to poke Germany into a Sealion attack if I’m the allies. The economic swing is to great and to soon if London falls. Better for the allies to prolong a Capital getting captured, and the best chance for that is to engage attrition in Russia… IMO.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Zhukov44:

Whether the Egy complex was a good move basically depends on your buy–if Germany bought all land units it was a decent move but if Germany bought air/navy it was a bad move.  I can’t say it’s a bad move if Germany bought land units because with a G1/J1 as you describe the task of Sea Lion will/would be a tough one.

I bought 1 Destroyer, 1 Fighter, and 1 S. Bomber G1.

It sounds like UK had plenty of time to build up forces on UK (if you didn’t build the mass of transports until G4)…if they didn’t that was a mistake.  Also, Germany saving alot of money on G3 ought to have been an indication that USA should invest in the Atlantic on USA3.

UK was focused on a KIF strategy, so much of their income went into the Med with a few infantry on London here and there. I masked the saving of cash by not making it a big deal and moving right into combat movements, ex: “OK….I’m saving $25, now for my attacks”. To be fair, I was bombing the hell out of the UK… so he should have taken me seriously.

Sounds like a fun game; congrats on your win.

Thanks, we both always have fun, but this game was special because when the bell rang, we just started throwing and didn’t stop… BTW, Japan had 8 factories at the end of the game, 6 purchased, 1 original, and Calcutta’s. I’m a big fan of buying 2 on J1 now because I controlled the China meat grinder in this game where is past games I had troubles with them.

[knp7765]

Interesting play. Never would have thought of saving $25 to spend in the next round. That would have been roughly half of Germany’s income at this point, depending on what all you took in Europe.
So, on G4, you had roughly $75-$80 to spend, right? So you obviously bought a stack of transports (how many?) What about land units to fill them? I figure some survived the battles for France and Normandy, but you also had to send some to keep Russia in her place.
I’m thinking you dusted off all or most of the Royal Navy G1 and had enough Luftwaffe to keep the Brits from putting too many new ships around England, particularly any that might have travelled to SZ 112 to block your invasion. Also, you had enough navy of your own to protect those transports from British air or even the Russian Navy – did Russia do anything with her Cruiser/Sub there in the Baltic?
I guess I’m just curious as to what all you bought G4. All transports? Transports and air? More land units to pester Russia?

I had a similar situation one game. I call it a “Sealion of Opportunity”. I was clearly going Barbarossa and our UK player took advantage and decided to pound Italy. Instead of putting a factory in Egypt, he kept transporting men and equip from England into the Med. The Italian navy was gone and Italy was doing good to defend their home territories. Every round he put down transports and destroyers in SZ 109 to keep my U Boats at bay and had 3 fighters on London and 3 on Scotland to scramble and keep my Luftwaffe away. I noticed by round 4-5 the only thing in London were the 3 scramble fighters and the few new land units to fill the new/returning transports - usually 2 infantry, a tank and an artillery.
I was about to invade Leningrad, which was pretty heavily fortified. So, G5 I bought 4 transports and placed them in SZ 113 (with my starting Tranport, battleship and cruiser) so it looked like I was going to use them for Leningrad. On G6, I sailed 5 transports over and attacked London from SZ 110. I sent fighters with the BB and CA incase he scrambled (which he did not) and the 10 land units plus 2 bombers hit London. That was more than enough for 4 UK land units and 3 fighters. Plundered a nice bit of change on that one.

BTW: 8 factories for Japan! You must have been pouring men and tanks into China.

[Eqqman]

@Young:

I won’t however, apologize by being annoyed by my opponent (friend). We play each other all the time and we know each others tendencies well, he thought I wouldn’t have the stones to change my plans or even attempt Sealion.

You’re right, it’s a bit different when your facing an old mate.  I’d also be annoyed if I thought my friends were deeming me 100% predictable.  Sounds like this would have been a great game to watch the replay of.

[Young Grasshopper]

@knp7765:

Interesting play. Never would have thought of saving $25 to spend in the next round. That would have been roughly half of Germany’s income at this point, depending on what all you took in Europe.
So, on G4, you had roughly $75-$80 to spend, right? So you obviously bought a stack of transports (how many?) I bought 10 Transports and 1 Tac. Bomber for $81 What about land units to fill them? the same turn that I saved $25 I spent the rest on infantry to help fill the pending boat purchase I figure some survived the battles for France and Normandy, but you also had to send some to keep Russia in her place correct.
I’m thinking you dusted off all or most of the Royal Navy G1 and had enough Luftwaffe to keep the Brits from putting too many new ships around England, particularly any that might have travelled to SZ 112 to block your invasion. Also, you had enough navy of your own to protect those transports from British air or even the Russian Navy – did Russia do anything with her Cruiser/Sub there in the Baltic? they tried a suicide run on my ships when they were in #114, I scrambled but he still sunk my Destroyer.
I guess I’m just curious as to what all you bought G4. All transports? Transports and air? More land units to pester Russia? **my first purchase was 1 S. Bomber, 1 Fighter, 1 Destroyer…. later after I attacked the British Carrier off S. Italy, I bought a full carrier of my own once I made up my mind to attempt an upcoming Sealion, and after Sealion… I used my $100 and bought another aircraft carrier with 4 T. Bombers and 4 Fighters. After that it was all land units against Russia. To be fair, I got great dice rolls when the UK attempted to hit my fleet with 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers and 2 air units… he retreated the air units lost the navy and only damaged my carrier. Thats why I didn’t have to face a blocker when I invaded.  **

BTW: 8 factories for Japan! You must have been pouring men and tanks into China.
only Mechs… at least 12 of them every turn.

[Young Grasshopper]

@variance:

Hmmm lots of food for thought here.  Thanks grasshopper.  :-)

BTW…. good on ya for getting a gold 2012 support badge so soon after your return.

[Cgioia]

What was the American player doing on the Europe side?

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cgioia:

What was the American player doing on the Europe side?

Building a landing force, but I hit it with my two loaded Carriers in a desperate attempt to sink all his transports… and it worked. He currently has 10 men and 10 tanks stranded in Canada.

[ghr2]

What did india/anzac do against that J1?  The 2 minor buy does slow you down at taking the islands and rushing india fast.    When did Calcutta fall?