The Great War 1914-1918: Clash of Empires

[BJCard]

4?

[xxstefanx]

We play our WWI game which is simply called Central Powers & Entente (in reference to Axis % Allies) for about 6 years now.

In the middle 2000s our gaming group which is some A&A veterans for almost 30 years felt like having played every strategy and every move so we thought:
What about creating a really fresh scenario ourself and in the process improve various aspects of A&A not well captured/simulated?
So we came up with WWI because the conflict is far more balanced from the outset and “diplomacy” comes to the table as an important additional strategic factor.

In the end the game features the following elemental changes/improvements:
1. Historical Accuracy (as close as possible)
2. Diplomacy as a new step in the turn order
3. Historical Events (Russian Revolution, US War Entry, Hindu-German Conspiracy)  
4. A&A Rule Improvements

Just some remarks:
-> 1.
We wanted to really feel like the military leader of the power facing the real questions of the war. Therefore Germany’s First Army exactly is placed where it historically stood when the game begins (October 1914) and not anywhere else. And in the correct strength as well. We did not want the situation of A%A Anniversary for instance in which Japan has 9 fighters (for about 2800 aircraft) and Germany 4 fighters (for about 3000 aircraft) Same with infantry: Japan mobilized 1.4 million men but in the game it gets 18 infantry initial setup whereas Germany attacked Russia with 3.5 million men alone but gets 18 infantry as well. Were the units are placed as even another story. We simple wanted the game to feel authentic!

-> 4.
One Example: We always disliked that casualties can be chosen! General: “How did our offensive go today?” Major:“Well, we lost too many tanks but we sacrificed some infantry instead!” If you think about it, this is simply ridiculous so unit types of casualties are rolled out in a second step after rolling out the number of hits.

In short, it’s a fully fledged out WWI game with extremely high historical accuracy, balanced gameplay and various rule additions and improvements!

The only purpose was to generate challenge and fun for our gaming group (and some “guests” to drop by). Just did not feel the urge to publish it officially like stated above. But WWI is immensely interesting therefore I posted the original WWI thread on MR Larry Harris website to push him a bit to create his own version! ;)

[BJCard]

Definitely sounds interesting!

[Old Dwarf]

Would love to see your rules & set ups 8-)

[CWO Marc]

@BJCard:

4?

Actually 5, if you count Diplomacy.

[BJCard]

I don’t know Diplomacy isn’t really WW1, more like the balance of power at the turn of the century.

[KjBush]

Been away from this site for a while. Came back about 2 days ago and realized that 1914 was out. Almost bought it then stumbled upon this thread. This game……seriously it sounds awesome and i am so excited!! WOOO! HOOO!

[BJCard]

@KjBush:

Been away from this site for a while. Came back about 2 days ago and realized that 1914 was out. Almost bought it then stumbled upon this thread. This game……seriously it sounds awesome and i am so excited!! WOOO! HOOO!

Who knows when this game will be out though- the official A&A 1914 is out now!  Could always buy this version when it comes out.

[KjBush]

@BJCard:

@KjBush:

Been away from this site for a while. Came back about 2 days ago and realized that 1914 was out. Almost bought it then stumbled upon this thread. This game……seriously it sounds awesome and i am so excited!! WOOO! HOOO!

Who knows when this game will be out though- the official A&A 1914 is out now!  Could always buy this version when it comes out.

I’m a poor college student. I think that says it all :D

[xxstefanx]

@Old:

Would love to see your rules & set ups 8-)

I will open a new thread called “World War I: Central Powers & Entente” to not spoil this thread.

Here: All honour to IL!

[DrLarsen]

My picture analysis (and the implied qestions) fit better on this thread, so I’m adding it to this thread… Also in hopes of an answer from IL…

So, IL… do you know what ships are pictured in the preview images you’ve shared so far?  The resolution is uneven on my screen and given two angles of the shot, I can’t quite be sure, but this is what I think I’m seeing…

1. Top: German Kaiser-class BB (the diagonal layout of the midships turret seems to make this a natural guess; the Brits also did some diagonal layouts, but the turret shape says “German” to me on this one, but I can’t quite be sure…)

2. Middle BB: One of the three British 13.5" “super-dreadnought” classes (i.e., Orion, KGV, Iron Duke.  Can’t quite tell which as the stack/mast layout is obscured.  If I’m wrong about the turret shapes, though, and the above is the British one, than this must surely be the German Konig-class, the only German all-centerline class with a single mid-ships turret.)

3. Lower BB: Must surely be the French Courbet class, the only class I can think of with 2 wing turrets together with two sets of fore-and-aft superfiring ones.

4. Upper Cruiser: I’m thinking French Gambetta class ACR, with its four stacks, obvious tumblehome and 8 turrets in a hexagonal (or would that be octagonal?) layout.

5. Lower Cruiser: Omaha-class CL, with its obvious 4 stacks and 2 twin turrets (an unusual feather for CL’s back then) which might be a bit of an odd choice since they didn’t make it into the war at all, but I’m not bothered, as I think they’d look like a good fit together with the US 4-piper destroyers.

6. Upper Destroyer: One of the British Admiraly classes; can’t tell which…

7. Middle Destroyer: One of the US 4-piper, “flush-decker” designs, not sure which…

8. Lower Destroyer: One of the German Grosse Torpedoboots (again, I can’t tell which…)

[xxstefanx]

If Dreadnought sculpts are indeed SMS Kaiser, HMS Iron Duke and Courbet it would be top spot!
Well, of course Austrian-Hungary’s ought to be Viribus Unitis! 8-)

[Imperious Leader]

I don’t know about these matters. Submitted to the producer was a file which had all this, but they made a number of changes.  I will post a copy of the original list.

Germany How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 10 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=395 ( 2nd row 1st pose)
Entrenched infantry 6 (4th row last pose)
Stosstrupen 3 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1310
(2nd row 2nd pose)
Forts 2
Cavalry 4
Armored Cars 6 Bussing A5P
Tanks 2 A7 V
Artillery 8 krupp 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 2 Neue Bruno 28cm Heavy Railgun
Airships 2
Zeppelins 2 LZ.38
Fighters 6 Fokker D.VII Albatross
Bombers 3 Gotha G.V
Transports 3
Submarines 6 U-48-U-155
Destroyers 3 V67-v84
Cruisers 2 Magdeburg class
Dreadnoughts 2 Kaiser class Konig class
Germany will use 3 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 10-6-3-2-4=25 pieces =75
Germany will use 3 spues for other units 50 pieces each =150
225 total pieces in this color.

Austria- Hungary How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 10 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=159
(1st row, 2nd pose)
Entrenched infantry 6
Stosstrupen 3
Forts 2
Cavalry 4
Armored Cars 6 Bussing A5P
Tanks 2 A7 V
Artillery 8 krupp 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 3 Neue Bruno 28cm Heavy Railgun
Airships 2
Fighters 6 Fokker D.VII Albatross
Bombers 3 Gotha G.V
Transports 3
Submarines 6 U-48-U-155
Destroyers 3 V67-v84
Cruisers 2 Magdeburg class
Dreadnoughts 3 Kaiser class Konig class

Austria-Hungary will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 10-6-3-2-4=25 pieces =50
Austria-Hungary will use 1 spues for other units 50 pieces each =50
100 total pieces in this color.

Ottoman Empire How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 10
Entrenched infantry 6
Stosstrupen 3
Forts 2
Cavalry 4
Armored Cars 6 Bussing A5P
Tanks 2 A7 V
Artillery 8 krupp 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 3 Neue Bruno 28cm Heavy Railgun
Airships 2
Fighters 6 Fokker D.VII Albatross
Bombers 3 Gotha G.V
Transports 3
Submarines 6 U-48-U-155
Destroyers 3 V67-v84
Cruisers 2 Magdeburg class
Dreadnoughts 3 Kaiser class Konig class

Ottomans will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 10-6-3-2-4=25 pieces =50
Ottomans will use 1 spues for other units 50 pieces each =50
100 total pieces in this color.

United KIngdom How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 15 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=80
(1st row, 1st pose, except both feet firmly on ground
and gun tucked in more
Entrenched infantry 7
Cavalry 3
Forts 3
Armored Cars 3 Rolls- Royce
Tanks 3 British Mark V
Artillery 6 60-pounder Mk I Field Gun or QF 4.5 Inch Howitzer
Rail Guns 3 BL 18 inch railway howitzer

Airships 2 c24 airship
Fighters 6 Sopwith camel
Bombers 3 Airco D. H. 9
Transports 6
Submarines 3 Type E
Destroyers 6 Type M
Cruisers 3 Arethusa
Dreadnoughts 3 Iron Duke class King George V class

United Kingdom will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 15-7-3=25 pieces =50
United Kingdom will use 2 spues for other units 50 pieces each =100
150 total pieces in this color.

United States How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 15
Entrenched infantry 7
Cavalry 3
Forts 3
Armored Cars 3 Rolls- Royce
Tanks 3 British Mark V
Artillery 6 60-pounder Mk I Field Gun or QF 4.5 Inch Howitzer
Rail Guns 3 BL 18 inch railway howitzer

Airships 2 c24 airship
Fighters 6 Sopwith camel
Bombers 3 Airco D. H. 9
Transports 6
Submarines 3 Type E
Destroyers 6 Type M
Cruisers 3 Arethusa
Dreadnoughts 3 Iron Duke class King George V class

United States will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 15-7-3=25 pieces =50
United States will use 1 spues for other units 50 pieces each =50
100 total pieces in this color.

France How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 15 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=37
(1st row 4th pose) but both feet firmly on ground
Entrenched infantry 7
Cavalry 3
Forts 3
Armored Cars 6 Fiat
Tanks 2 FT-17
Artillery 8 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 3 320 mm railway gun
Airships 2 Chalais-Meudon Fleurus
Fighters 6 Spad 7
Bombers 3 Breguet 14
Transports 3
Submarines 3 Brumaire
Destroyers 4 Bouclier
Cruisers 3 Leon Gambetta
Dreadnoughts 3 Courbet class Bretagne

France will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 15-7-3 pieces =50
France will use 2 spues for other units 50 pieces each =100
150 total pieces in this color.

Italy How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 15
Entrenched infantry 7
Calvary 3
Forts 3
Armored Cars 6 Fiat
Tanks 2 FT-17
Artillery 8 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 3 320 mm railway gun
Airships 2 Chalais-Meudon Fleurus
Fighters 6 Spad 7
Bombers 3 Breguet 14
Transports 3
Submarines 3 Brumaire
Destroyers 4 Bouclier
Cruisers 3 Leon Gambetta
Dreadnoughts 3 Cavour class Bretagne

Italy will use 2 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 15-7-3=25 pieces =50
Italy will use 1 spues for other units 50 pieces each =50

100 total pieces in this color.

Russia How many per sprue Type A Type B
Infantry 15 http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=160
(1st row , 2nd pose)
Entrenched infantry 7
Cavalry 3
Forts 3
Armored Cars 6 Fiat
Tanks 2 FT-17
Artillery 8 75mm field gun
Rail Guns 3 320 mm railway gun
Airships 2 Chalais-Meudon Fleurus
Fighters 6 Spad 7
Bombers 3 Breguet 14
Transports 3
Submarines 4 Brumaire
Destroyers 4 Bouclier
Cruisers 3 Leon Gambetta
Dreadnoughts 3 Courbet class Bretagne

Russia will use 3 sprues for Infantry (Bold) 15-7-3=25 pieces =75
Russia will use 2 spues for other units 50 pieces each =100
175 total pieces in this color.

Totals:
225 Germany
100 Aus-Hun
100 Ottoman
150 UK
100 USA
150 France
100 Italy
175 Russia
Grand total:  1,100 pieces

Other units:

Counters:

Tokens single sided:
Carriers: 4
No Man’s land: 12
Damage to warship: 12
Sea mine: 12
British observation balloons: 10

50 single sided tokens

Tokens double sided:
40 Germany side 1– 40 France side 2
40 Russia side 1-- 40 Ottoman side 2
40 UK side 1-- 40 USA side 2
40 Austria Hungary side 1-- 40 Italy side 2
Gas Canisters: 20 mustard and 20 phosgene on other side

200 double sided tokens

Plastic chips:

200 white chips
75 red chips
25 blue chips
300 total

6 white and 6 red dice

Grand totals:
1,100 pieces
240 tokens
300 chips
12 dice
1,652 total pieces/tokens

This list is the wish list, changes will and have been made

[Slackaveli]

@Imperious:

In a lot of ways this map is superior to A&A 1914. Especially the colors. The red for the Ottomans is so much better then the turquoise. I also like how Bulgaria is controlled by Germany over the Ottomans. More territories to maneuver in too. How large will the map be?

5 feet by 4 feet hardbound map, so it’s huge

Is there some connection with this game and Pegasus Hobbies? Are they making the the pieces?

They produced the game

I do like how Larry’s map feels more global though. A few suggestions I would have for the map is maybe consider creating a new image for the forts. I had to really zoom in just to tell what it was. Maybe get rid of one of the US convoys and make it Canadian also. Shouldn’t the Russian capitol be in Petrograd? Spaces like Gallipoli seem way too small. Over all though I really dig it.

The Russian capital is St. Pertersburg, not Moscow. Gallipoli is small because it is small. When you have too many pieces you just use one of the numbers and place it in the area, and the pieces go off board with that number ( note the numbered boxes bottom left).

The fort is based on Verdun at an angle looking above head on. The detail just couldn’t be done ( it was revised a number of times)

that’s what i’m talking about!

[Imperious Leader]

I guarantee this version is more like AA than 1914. It just a tad more complex than Global and features standard and advanced rules as well as optional rules.

[Slackaveli]

@Imperious:

I guarantee this version is more like AA than 1914. It just a tad more complex than Global and features standard and advanced rules as well as optional rules.

dude, i can’t wait for this game, brother.

[DrLarsen]

Thanks for being willing to share some of the “inside baseball” info w/ us IL.  It looks to me like they pretty much went with your recomendations for bb’s and cruisers, IL (and that I was wrong about the lower cruiser being an oddly anachronistic Omaha) now that I was thinking of the Magdeburg as a possibility for it: it didn’t have twin turrets (unheard-of for ww1 CL’s) but rather 2 paired sets of single turrets front-and-back… and then there’s those fluted stacks… when viewed that way the picture almost sort of comes into focus mentally, without having to on the page…

I’ll have to take another look at the DD’s in light of the new info…

I do like the 3-option piece set idea you’re working with, IL; I think it would have gone well with using soft hats for Brit-Fr-Am regular infantry (looks like you already did for everyone else) and you could have shock troop with stalhelm for CP, Brodie for Brit-Am, and Adrian for Fr-Rus-It; slightly ahistorical, I know, since helmets weren’t an elite thing per se, but would have been a convenient way to give everybody a second Inf type while having to do only 3 more sculpts…

But I quibble.  Infantry options abound anyway…

[Flashman]

Weird that you can’t sail from England to Archangel - this is a major Allied supply route in 1914.

[DrLarsen]

IL: Yep, as I suspected, after a second look, that top destroyer looks like a Bouclier class to me (though it does seem to be missing a stack, but maybe the picture’s resolution obscures it, which means that they likely pretty much went with your suggestions for all three ship types.  Given that all of the various types of “Admiralty”-type destroyers and most of the German grossetorpedoboots had a similar look, that’s a solid choice for those two.  France was pretty weak in destroyers, so the Bouclier might be a tad more controversial of a choice, but it does make sense to stay consistent with the 3-option paradigm and give a complete set of French equipment (I don’t know that either the Russians or Italians were that much better off naval-wise anyway.)

Tall Paul: Sorry, this means no US 4-piper.  Here’s the consolation, though: the 4-pipers converted to “green dragons” generally lost a pipe anyway, and so they probably wouldn’t be all that far off from the look of the Admiralty type or the Bouclier, anyway.  (They do have a raised forecastle rather than a flush-deck from the looks of it, but some of the APD classes were made from other destroyer classes; perhaps some of them also had raised forecastles, too, and even if they didn’t, it’s a small difference that only a nerd like me would probably notice…)

The bottom line of the APD concept was to take relatively low-combat-value destroyers by using either old DD or new DE hulls, and rebuild them for the new mission, so the layout specs could be quite variable… and if different ships had been available, different ones would have been used.  The 4-pipers were used mainly because the US had made like, 300 of these things, most of which were finished too late to get into WW1, so alot of them had gone almost straight from the shipbuilders to mothballs… and thus had hulls in relatively good shape for ships that old by ww2, making them available for reuse and experimentation.

[Imperious Leader]

My goodness i didn’t realize some people were so into sculpts. I mean that in a good way, but still. geez