Confused with submarines

[tomojaco]

hi

i’m confused about submarines…
1. is it so that a surprise strike takes place INSTEAD of a normal strike and can take place many times in the following rounds of the battle once per round, or does a sub have only one surprise strike at the beginning of the battle and then a normal strike in the same round and more normal strikes for the rest of the battle unless it submerges?

2. can i make a surprise attack with my sub and then submerge right away so nobody gets the chance to hit me? (i guess that would be possible if the answer for the 1st question was that sub has two shots)

3. if a ship is moving in a non-combat round through the see zone with an enemy sub, can the enemy decide to make a surprise strike with this sub, or can it be done only when the moving ship ENDS the movement in the see zone with the enemy sub?

:?

[Rorschach]

I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong but from my understanding;

A sub gets a “surprise strike”.  This attack takes place before any other combat is rolled, and subs on BOTH sides (attacker AND defender) roll surprise strikes.  Casualties are removed from the board immediately.  This happens each and every combat turn.

Your sub can choose to EITHER surprise strike OR submerge (if no enemy destroyers are present) but not both in the same round of combat. This happens each and every combat turn.

The sub does not get a surprise strike on the enemies turn.  If they end their movement in your sea zone however you can attack on your combat turn.

[tomojaco]

thanks!

one more:
but if an enemy ships (with no destroyer) are attacking my ships and i also have a sub in this see zone with which i make a surprise attack (as a defender) and later an enemy hits me, can he/she hit the sub, or is it still invisible to them?

those rules are killing me  :lol:

[special forces]

@tomojaco:

thanks!

one more:
but if an enemy ships (with no destroyer) are attacking my ships and i also have a sub in this see zone with which i make a surprise attack (as a defender) and later an enemy hits me, can he/she hit the sub, or is it still invisible to them?

those rules are killing me  :lol:

From what i know, if you attack a sub with (for example) a cruiser, it can chose to either submerge (before the cruiser gets a chance to attack) or defend (if it defends it gets to shoot before the cruiser, so if it hits, the cruiser would sink before it can attack).

Simply said: in a battle (without destroyers) first the attacking subs fire and defending subs fire, then casualties are removed (so a hit sub can shoot back but a hit cruiser or carrier cannot), and then the remaining (attacking and defending) surface war ships (and air) can fire.

I think “first strike” would be less confusing than “surprise strike”

edit: i hope i’m correct here :D

[Hobbes]

@Rorschach:

Your sub can choose to EITHER surprise strike OR submerge (if no enemy destroyers are present) but not both in the same round of combat. This happens each and every combat turn.

However, once the sub submerges it is out of the combat for good.

This may help:

Combat Sequence
#1 Attacking Subs Submerge/Surprise Strike (only if there’s no enemy destroyers present, otherwise they fire on #5)
#2 Defender Chooses Casualties (if there isn’t an defending destroyer(s) present, those units are removed immediately and don’t fire back, unless subs are chosen as casualties)
#3 Defending Subs Submerge/Surprise Strike (only if there’s no enemy destroyers present, otherwise they fire on #7)
#4 Attacker Chooses Casualties (if there isn’t an attacking destroyer(s) present, those units are removed immediately and don’t fire back, unless subs are chosen as casualties)
#5 Remaining Attacking Units Fire
#6 Defender Chooses Casualties
#7 Remaining Defending Units Fire
#8 Attacker Chooses Casualties
#9 Remove Casualties
#10 If there are still attacking and defending units remaining the attacker chooses to either press the attack or retreat. If the attack continues repeat #1, otherwise combat ends.

[tomojaco]

So
2 cruisers, no destroyers attack an enemy transporter, but there’s also an enemy sub there. Sub decides to defend so it starts the whole combat. it hits and the cruiser is removed and has no change to attack.
Does the cruiser in this situation see the sub and can it hit the sub?
Is all above correct?

Thanks guys, really  :-)

[Witt]

The surviving Cruiser gets a shot. If it hits,  the Transport will be sunk too. If it misses, the lucky Sub can choose to go again with a first strike or submerge and leave the Transport to die. Once a round of combat has been initiated by the Sub deciding to stay and fight, you have to finish that round.
If rhe Sub decides to stay and fight, not having a defending Destroyer present does not make it impregnable, except to Air units.

[Witt]

Incidentally, is the Sub commander in your scenario after the Knight’s Cross? He does not seem normal!
You understand it defends on a “1”?

[tomojaco]

Thanks for explaining but I’m afraid you overestimate me  :-)
I have no idea what you’re talking about but I’d love to learn something new!
Knights cross? Say whaaaat?
:-D