Anyone have any interest in a "Soviets in the Axis" varient?

[dannyboy2016]

I’ve been thinking about devising a scenario based on the presumption that the German-Soviet Axis talks in 1940 were successful. In October and November of 1940 there were attempts to bring the USSR into the Axis powers. By the end of November Stalin made his proposal for joining the axis. It was too much for Hitler to agree to, but what if he made the effort to come to an agreement with the USSR?

In game terms I would suggest that Ribbentrop’s initial alliance proposal and Stalin’s counter proposal be represented in the following ways:

1.The Soviet Union starts the war as a member of the Axis Powers.

2. Bulgaria, Finland, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Mongolia are considered to be pro-Soviet neutrals. Only the USSR may make a non combat move to take over these territories and their units.

3. If the Axis powers conquer Turkey or the Persian territories then these areas go to Soviet control.

4. Japan acts as normal and may declare war at their leisure. They may not attack the USSR. Once Japan goes to war with the Western allies the rest of the Axis are at war with China. Chinese territories conquered by any Axis powers go to Japan.

5. Tanganyika Territory, Rhodesia, South West Africa, and Union of South Africa fall under German control if captured by the Axis.  The rest of the African mainland goes to the Italians when conquered by an Axis power.

6. Spain, Portugal, Angola, Mozambique, Portuguese Guinea, and Rio de Oro are now pro axis.

7. The new Axis victory condition is that they must take all but 3 of the victory cities on the global map. Basically, they’d have to control everything but North America.

Of course, in light of the unholy alliance, the allies will need a few buffs.

1.The UK Atlantic, Uk Pacific, and Anzac powers are combined into one country and economy. The following territories count as capitols for the British Empire: United Kingdom, Ontario, Union of South Africa, India, and New South Wales. As long as one of these is still standing, Britain may collect income and build units as usual. However, whenever one falls, the capturing power takes half of Britain’s cash on hand. When the game starts, Britain controls all of France’s units and territories except for Normandy Bordeaux, France, and Southern France. Britain also starts in control of all Dutch territories.

2.The usual political rules for the USA are in place. However, the ipc value of the west coast changes from 10 to 50 once the USA is at war (this is on top of the NOs).

3.Saudi Arabia, Serra Leone, Liberia, and all of Latin America are now pro Allies.

This scenario will, naturally, necessitate a few new NOs for the axis powers. Japan should be more or less fine, but I’d add an NO for conquering China. Do you all have any ideas for new NOs for the USSR, Germany, and Italy? What about the UK?

[Guest]

Interesting idea, but Finland should go to Germany; not Russia.

[dannyboy2016]

[quote author=Vance link=topic=27526.msg970004#msg970004 date=1338989711]
Interesting idea, but Finland should go to Germany; not Russia.
[/quote]

Finland was actual one of the major issues that kept this from becoming a reality. Apparently, Soviet stubbornness over Finland and Bulgaria lead to Hitler’s decision to order plans drawn up for the invasion of the USSR.

Perhaps Finland should remain pro Axis, but the USSR should get an NO for controlling it. This gives Germany a choice between taking it for themselves or letting Stalin have it. Maybe the same should be done for Bulgaria.

Given the enormity of Axis power should the US begin at war with the European Axis?

[Gargantua]

Hands Down, I’ll tell you right now.

Finland would have joined the ALLIES, if Germany wasn’t going to protect them from Russia.

Cool concept though.

China’s going to need some Buffs lol…

[dannyboy2016]

[quote author=Gargantua link=topic=27526.msg970054#msg970054 date=1338994669]
Hands Down, I’ll tell you right now.

Finland would have joined the ALLIES, if Germany wasn’t going to protect them from Russia.

Cool concept though.

China’s going to need some Buffs lol…
[/quote]

You are probably correct that Finland would fight to the end rather than be absorbed by Russia. Do you think that they’d join the Axis as a German client if the USSR also joined the Axis?

Yeah China will need some buffs for certain.

[Witt]

UK needs two more NOs. The  German Sub one was a good one,otherwise an Axis free Africa would make sense. Both 5 bonus. How about eliminating Russian political NOs outside of Europe too. Do you envisage US eliminating Italy and Germany then continuing on to Moscow? Nice.

[dannyboy2016]

@wittman:

UK needs two more NOs. The  German Sub one was a good one,otherwise an Axis free Africa would make sense. Both 5 bonus. How about eliminating Russian political NOs outside of Europe too. Do you envisage US eliminating Italy and Germany then continuing on to Moscow? Nice.

Yeah the UK needs new NOs.
Germany, italy, and Russia will need new Nos.  Germany should no longer get the Nos associated with the USSR (ie they’ll always be allies, Soviets will start with caucuses, etc)

These are just preliminary ideas on Nos…

Germany
When Germany Is at War with the United Kingdom:
• 5 IPCs if at least one German land unit is in Axis-controlled Egypt.
• 5 IPCs if Germany controls both Denmark and Norway while Sweden is not either pro-Allies or Allied-controlled.
• 5 IPCs if Germany controls France.
• 5 IPCs if Germany controls the United Kingdom.
• 3 IPCs for every Victory City under Axis control (includes Japanese territories once Japan is at war with the UK).

Soviet Union
When the Soviet Union Is at War with the United Kingdom:
• 3 IPCs per territory if the Soviets control Novgorod (Leningrad), Amur, Persia, and/or Iraq. Theme: Access to the Sea.
• 3 IPCs per territory if the Soviets control Cyprus, Bulgaria, Greece, Crete, and/or Yugoslavia. Theme: Pan Slavism.
• 3 IPCs if the Soviets control Finland and Turkey. Theme: Historic Russian Ambitions.
• 3 IPCs for every Victory City under Axis control (includes Japanese territories once Japan is at war with the UK).

Italy
When Italy Is at War:
• 5 IPCs if there are no Allied surface warships in the Mediterranean Sea (sea zones 92 through 99).
• 5 IPCs if Axis powers control at least 3 of the following territories: Gibraltar, Southern France, Greece, and Egypt.
• 5 IPCs if Axis powers control all of the following territories: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, and Alexandria.
• 2 IPCs for every Victory City under Axis control(includes Japanese territories once Japan is at war with the UK).

United Kingdom
When the United Kingdom Is at War:
• 5 IPCs if the United Kingdom controls all of its original territories on the Europe Board.
• 5 IPCs if the United Kingdom controls all of its original territories on the Pacific Board.
• 5 IPCs if the Allies control India, West India, Ontario, New South Wales, and the Union of South Africa.
• 5 IPCs if there are no Axis submarines on the Europe Board. Subs in the white sea (Sz 127), the Baltic sea, the Black and Caspian Seas, and the Mediterranean Sea do not count for the purposes of this NO(they aren’t sinking any British shipping in those seas).
• 5 IPCs if there are no Axis units in Africa.
• 5 IPCs for every Victory City under the United Kingdom’s control.

United States
When the United States Is at War:
• The IPC value of the Western United States permanently changes from 10 to 50.
• 10 IPCs if the United States controls all of the following territories: Eastern United States, Central United States, and Western United States.
• 5 IPCs if the United States controls all of the following territories: Alaska, Aleutian Islands, Hawaiian Islands, Johnston Island, and Line Islands.
• 5 IPCs if the United States controls all of the following territories: Mexico, South Eastern Mexico, Central America, and West Indies.
• 5 IPCs for every Victory City under the United States’ control.
• 5 IPCs if the United States controls all of the South American Neutrals. Theme: Monroe Doctrine 
• 5 IPCs for each turn that the US has at least one land unit in the territory “United Kingdom”. Theme: Great Alliance collaboration

Japan
When Japan Is Not at War with the United States:
• 10 IPCs if Japan is not at war with the United States, has not attacked French Indo-China, and has not made an unprovoked declaration of war against United Kingdom/ANZAC. Theme: Strategic resource trade with the United States.

When Japan Is at War with the Western Allies:
• 5 IPCs if Axis powers control all ofthe following territories: Guam, Midway, Wake Island, Gilbert Islands, and Solomon Islands.
• 5 IPCs per territory if an Axis power controls India (Calcutta), New South Wales (Sydney), Hawaiian Islands (Honolulu) and/or Western United States (San Francisco).
• 5 IPCs if Axis powers control all of the following territories: Sumatra, Java, Borneo, and Celebes.
• 5 IPCs if all of China has been conquered.
• 3 IPCs for every Victory City under Axis control.

Chinese and French Nos would remain the same.

[knp7765]

Very interesting concept. I did something similar once. What I had was France, Germany, Italy, Russia and China as the “Axis” and USA, UK, ANZAC and Japan as the “Allies”. It was kind of weird because except for some attacking on Russia in the north and UK/India and Japan going after China, there was pretty much no action on the Pacific board. All the big navies had to go through the Panama Canal into the Atlantic or around India into the Med to see any action.
I also had to change some of the NOs and I even gave France a couple. I also changed the Burma Road to the Stalingrad Road for China’s NO. The Axis had to keep control of Szchechwan, Sikang, Kazakh and Volgogrod for China to get the bonus.
The Allies ended up winning this one. Even though the Germany/Russia/France/Italy combo was really strong, it ended up relying on control of the oceans. Italy and France did pretty good in the Med against just the UK ships, but UK managed to keep the Suez open and when the massive Japanese fleet showed up, Italy and France were sunk. While the German and Russian navies had initial success against the Royal Navy, it simply got replaced by the big US Navy. Even with Luftwaffe and Red Air Force help, they couldn’t keep up with UK and USA putting more and more ships in the water.
Eventually, Japan and India crushed China and kept moving west into Russia. ANZAC landed troops in the Middle East which stymied Russia’s attempts to send tanks down to close off the Suez. Finally, the US managed to land troops in Europe which were backed up by UK troops and fighters enough that Germany, Italy or France couldn’t get them back off this time. Russia was little help in Europe with Japanese and Indian forces right on Moscow’s door.
With no Axis naval presence and the Luftwaffe losing planes left and right, the US and UK was able to keep a continuous stream of transports bringing more men, artillery and tanks onto the continent and protected by US and Japanese warships. Paris fell, then Moscow, then Rome. Berlin was all alone again.
It was actually a really fun game once we got done figuring out the new NOs and such. One cool thing was having France in the game much longer than usual. Kind of neat to see France actually collecting money and buying units.

[Ghost One]

I really like this idea for a variant because it could have happened and it would be fun to see how it turned out.
also with your first post was there any real chance of Portugal joining the axis especially if Spain was a part?
and if all of the south American countries go pro-allies then Argentina shouldn’t and should go pro-axis.
for Sweden i think they should be pro Germany because though they stayed neutral in real life and traded with Germany to stay out of the war i think they would have joined the axis if Russia was in it because it would keep the war from coming to them by joining it on the side of the people surrounding them who would most likely invade them.
and would turkey stay neutral?

[ModernFun94]

I think France and britisn should have a larger militaries in the begining making it more diffucult for the axis because Germany doesn’t have to worrie about Russia and Japan if the want to they can the allies.

[Ghost One]

if Russia starts axis then the east indies should start under UK control.

[Ghost One]

to balance it out France should be given more stuff around the would so it came stay in the game and help the allies