French Set…need help to finalize set.

[Yavid]

I agree that the French Navy is sadly under-strengthed but as we stand right now, I would rather a French destroyer/cruiser combo over the battleship/carrier combo.

ok next conversation; So we have Russia, Germany 2, Japan, and then France in that order? Am I missing something? Is something in the wrong order?

[Lunarwolf]

i think that is the correct order but this thread is about the french pieces

[Yavid]

i know but i’ve seen that question asked over and over again

[Lunarwolf]

also i agree with you destroyer/cruiser combo is more important to get out for the first set, since they are actually being used in the game, but it would be nice to see the french capital ships eventually

[knp7765]

@Yavid:

I agree that the French Navy is sadly under-strengthed but as we stand right now, I would rather a French destroyer/cruiser combo over the battleship/carrier combo.

I agree with you. I think the French Navy should be better represented than it is. France should get at least one Battleship, but not a carrier as the French Navy hadn’t really gotten into carriers quite yet.

Perhaps a Battleship/Destroyer or Battleship/Cruiser in either sea zone 92 or 94, off of Algeria where France had a large naval base historically. In fact, perhaps there should be a Naval Base in Algeria. Maybe even give France an extra Destroyer in SZ 105, next to their naval base in Normandy/Bordeaux.
Personally, I also think France should have an infantry or two in French Indo-China and perhaps a Destroyer in the sea zone next to FIC, but that’s just me.

[sgtwiltan]

H-39s or R35s are most representative of French tanks rather than the antiquated FT-17 which were alloted to secondary units.

[Lunarwolf]

sgtwiltani , on page one coach mentions he likes the r-35 for the light tanks. maybe he will change it later

[jim010]

@knp7765:

@Yavid:

I agree that the French Navy is sadly under-strengthed but as we stand right now, I would rather a French destroyer/cruiser combo over the battleship/carrier combo.

I agree with you. I think the French Navy should be better represented than it is. France should get at least one Battleship, but not a carrier as the French Navy hadn’t really gotten into carriers quite yet.

I’m guessing that Coach is making these pieces with his game more in mind than AAG.  He likely has more French Navy represented there.  I know that World War II in Europe certainly has more French Navy in it.  A BB would be welcome in those games.

[Gargantua]

A French Battleship got placed in one of the tournament of extra death and pain games. :P

It’s busy sinking Japs in the south pacific.

[jim010]

@Gargantua:

A French Battleship got placed in one of the tournament of extra death and pain games. :P

It’s busy sinking Japs in the south pacific.

:lol:

[DrLarsen]

@Imperious:

France just lasts one turn and you got a few infantry left to bother with.

In point of fact, one of the biggest post-fall-of-France issues of the early war was what would happen to the French fleet.  Note that it would NOT have been such an issue if the French fleet wasn’t significant either quality or quantity-wise.  The French fleet was every bit the equal of either Germany or Italy (which makes sense, as all three had been theoretically treated limited to approximately 1/3 the size of the RN until Hitler repudiated the AGNA and war broke out, ending the constraints of the Second London Treaty, events which had happened in fairly rapid succession, fleet-building-wise… and the Richelieu was a good match for the Bismark or the Littorio; meanwhile, the Dunkerque was a match for the Scharnhorst and for the rebuilt Italian BB’s…)

Anyways, point being that if you compare BB/ CB/ CA line-ups between Germany, Italy, and France, you get three fleets that are each pretty much a match for each other.  (Yes, the Jean Bart wasn’t finished when war broke out, but neither were the Bismark class ships…)  Factoring in Jean Bart, and the Bismarks, and you get 2 modern, 15"-gunned ships for each (Italy, France, & Germany) and a varying list of modern battlecruisers, updated old BB’s, “pocket battleships”, treaty cruisers… all of which added up to roughly equivalent fleets for each of the three continental powers!

Getting in a Richelieu, or at least a Dunkerque, is a must in HBG’s first French set, IMHO!

[Imperious Leader]

The French setup does not have more than a few ships. Historically of course, they had a large navy but in this game they don’t and most people are buying them for games.

[DrLarsen]

Yes, but this section of the forum is the place where all the “customizers” hang out; I’m thinking Global 1939, and I’ll be customizing my set-up to probably include a larger fleet for the French so that it can be an issue for those “Vichy or not” negotiations;  I imagine that others might find such an idea interesting to experiment with… But it’s just not the same if the ship you’re negotiating over is that monstrosity of a WotC Gangut class ship that could barely pass for itself, much less a Richelieu or a Dunkerque…

[Yavid]

I completely agree the french navy is sadly under represented. as is the german navy for that matter but i would much rather be buying pieces that are going to get used than buying pieces that are going to sit around collecting dust. it’s why i haven’t bought any of the neutral sets. All i want from them is 14 inf. for strict neutrals, 4 for pro-axis, 3 for pro-allied and 3ish? for mongalian.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes, but this section of the forum is the place where all the “customizers” hang out; I’m thinking Global 1939, and I’ll be customizing my set-up to probably include a larger fleet for the French

Yea that is true enough. My own Europe 39 setup has alot more French ships, but id rather see the British out before France because they are more important.

France has to be like on the bottom of the list IMO.

[DrLarsen]

Well, I admit to being a “piece junkie,” and I leave it to all an sundry to say what their own top buying priority is, because I want HBG to make money on these things.  My key point though, is that while he’s doing the French, he’d be missing an opportunity if he ignored the only branch of the French armed forces that was worth anything, their navy, which had some great ships!  T-34’s could almost pass for Somua-35’s at a distance at this scale, but, as I said before, those ridiculously oversized Gangut class pieces can barely pose as themselves!  They certainly bear no resemblance (passing or otherwise) to a Richelieu (which went on to serve as a highly-valued component of the British Pacific Fleet, late war, btw, illustrating the importance that French ships can have in someone’s custom game version…)

[knp7765]

Yeah, when the new Russian ship pieces first came out, I was really stoked about them because I was tired of Russia simply using all of Britain’s ship classes. I still like the Kirov Class Cruiser and Gnevnyi Class Destroyer. However, the Gangut Class Battleship, while definitely a Russian ship design, is too dang big in our pieces. They have it as big if not bigger than the Japanese Yamato when really the Gangut was much shorter, probably more along the lines of the Royal Oak.

[CWO Marc]

I’m with DrLarsen on this.  France is the late-comer in the A&A franchise, and compared to the other countries there’s a great lack of pieces for it.  The US, UK, USSR, Germany and Japan have appeared in every global version of the game; every regional version of the game has included either Germany or Japan; the UK has appeared in some of the regional versions; and the US has appeared in every single A&A game ever published.  That’s a couple of decades worth of pieces, with a fair bit of colour and sculpt-design variations over the years, so there are lots of units from which to choose for game variants.

Italy – another late-comer like France, but one that appeared in Anniversary too – has a rather poor selection of OOB pieces for it, but at least it has its own OOB tank and, more importantly, it’s the only country for which FMG’s enhanced nation-specific sculpt set is available, so it’s in good shape.  (It also has HBG’s Italy-coloured Axis Minor pieces as a further expansion to its sculpt range.)

France so far, on the other hand, only has the OOB pieces – which apart from the troop sculpt are all Russian in design.  HBG’s blue Neutrals set doesn’t fill this particular gap adequately: the pieces are Dutch and Polish, the shade of blue used is too pale compared with the OOB French set, and the range of pieces is limited (with the heaviest naval unit being a cruiser).  This lack of pieces is compounded by the fact that France, for gaming purposes, can be seen as being anywhere from one to four different entities: the Third Republic, the Vichy regime, the Free French forces, and the post-liberation Provisional Government of the French Republic.  No more than two of those entities existed simultaneously, however, so having enough variety to distinguish between just two of them is plenty.

[DrLarsen]

@DrLarsen:

Yeah, when the new Russian ship pieces first came out, I was really stoked about them because I was tired of Russia simply using all of Britain’s ship classes. I still like the Kirov Class Cruiser and Gnevnyi Class Destroyer. However, the Gangut Class Battleship, while definitely a Russian ship design, is too dang big in our pieces. They have it as big if not bigger than the Japanese Yamato when really the Gangut was much shorter, probably more along the lines of the Royal Oak.

Oh, if they actually made it to scale, it would be much smaller; it would be too easy to confuse it with a cruiser, in fact, so you can’t blame them for not doing proper scale, per se, but they didn’t need to make it THAT big. � Speaking of keeping ship classes distinct, I’m looking at the FMG Italian cruiser and I’m a little concerned that FMG made it too small, as I’m concerned that it will be confused for a destroyer. � Is it just me, or have others had similar concerns?

[lozmoid]

I also felt that the FMG Italian Cruiser piece was a little insubstantial in terms of superstructure height, and perhaps in terms of general width too, and I mentioned this is the past also. When you compare it to the FMG Battleship piece, the difference is enormous.