German opening.

[Stalingradski]

Do you mean clearing out as much British navy as you can in the first couple rounds but not building any new German navy?

I think it’s absolutely worth consideration, and playtesting.

[Jennifer]

@Stalingradski:

Do you mean clearing out as much British navy as you can in the first couple rounds but not building any new German navy?

I think it’s absolutely worth consideration, and playtesting.

No, I mean completely ignoring it and using your units to hit Russia early.

You could hit Baltic, E. Poland, Bessarabia, Bulgaria, Finland, SZ 115, Normandy, France and have your navy pretty safe in the Baltic.

Of course, I’d use the submarines to hit what I could since they cannot get somewhere safe really, but from then on it’s all about taking down Russia and building up airpower to keep the Allies out of Europe.

Of course, it probably won’t work, but I’d be interested in trying it.

[Jennifer]

oh, and one more thing, England’s going to consolidate, which means you could amass your units to hit them hard as well.

The idea would be to get:

Paris
Berlin
Warsaw
Rome
St. Petersburg
Stalingrad
Cairo
Moscow

and win.  The only one you need to have fleet for is Cairo, and even then, you COULD (in theory) go through Turkey or Caucasus to get there if you had too.

[ViribusUnitis]

I think you would be done pretty soon. As Britain I’d do Taranto, maybe Tobruk and have a stable landbridge by turn2. You’d probably loose Norway turn 1 if sinking the transports failed.
I don’t believe Germany could go fast enough into Russia and be able to defend against England in Mainland Europe. The Americans would not have to buy so many Warships and accordingly, would land with a very big army protected by British battleships and Acc.
I too thought about a Barbarossa turn 1 but IMO sinking as many Brits as possible is a must.

And turn one with only one Transport you cant really make a difference in Russia anyway. G1 2 trans and a Carrier is the better option IMO.

[Robson]

I tried to ignore the british fleet once, and it ended badly.
My Idea was the same, a Barbarossa in Turn 1, and buying all land stuff. The problem is that the first units you send to the east are lost due to Russian revenge round 1. I think it is better to consolidate your troops and attack Russia in turn 2. In that case you can take care of the british fleet.

[WILD BILL]

Yeah, that would be a dream come true for UK. You go right on the offensive (instead of guarding against a possible SL). Your buying a carrier (instead of boring inf), and merging a hearty Atlantic fleet. Take out what you can of the Italian navy (UK1), because your Med fleet is now expendable. You could also just merge parts of your navy into sz 92 (UK1) to deliver a death blow to the entire Italian navy (UK2). The merger into 92 will also limit what Italy can do on IT1. I probably buy a tpt for S Africa to get more units to Egypt, Italy is of little threat to N Africa w/o fleet to back it up.

[Jennifer]

Taranto fails almot every time it’s tried.  I am not sure why people are still recommending this.  (3 fighters scramble from S. Italy drops your odds significantly and gives Italy the advantage there.)

[knp7765]

@Cmdr:

Taranto fails almot every time it’s tried.  I am not sure why people are still recommending this.  (3 fighters scramble from S. Italy drops your odds significantly and gives Italy the advantage there.)

I totally agree with you Jennifer.  Every time the UK has tried Taranto in our games, it ends up a dismal failure with UK losing all fleet and air power in the Med, especially in the Alpha+2 setup.  Now, the UK often trounces the Italian force at Tobruk, but with the loss of fleet and air power, and Italy having 3 transports to shuttle men and equipment to Africa, Italy will quickly gain the upper hand and have the Med, all of North Africa and control of the Suez by round 3 or 4.
The only time Taranto was a “success”, England only had 1 Tac bomber left after the battle.  That still leaves Italy with the 2nd fleet and really only delays them by 1 round, maybe 2.

[Jennifer]

Taranto was a success until people figured out they had to fly a couple German fighters down to S. Italy and that stopped it from working ever again.

Now, I do clear out the Italians in Toburk on a semi-routine basis, because it’s my best opportunity to hurt Italy. (All those units + no N. Africa NO + no Med NO + no Egypt trilogy NO) and like to bring what ships and planes I can into the Med so that Italy has to keep an eye on what they have defending those 3 transports.  (Keep in mind, if London falls, America is in the war INSTANTLY which is a great deterant to a round 2 sea lion.)

[gsh34]

@Cmdr:

Has anyone considered ignoring the British Atlantic navy?  Instead of buying naval units, just getting more ground units and hitting Russia?

I am NOT endorsing this idea, I am just CONSIDERING it and THINKING about it.

Hey, I did this already and it was one of my most SPECTACULAR STRATEGY FAILURES EVER, PERIOD. :cry:  If my memory serves me correctly my opponent was landing 8 UK units a turn into Europe on UK 3 (plus, the UK had a crap load of bombardments to boot).  That did not yield very good results for my Barbarossa campaign.

I don’t know if you have to buy a lot of fleet, but at a minimum, I will always kill what I can on G1 and buy some subs (if not planes) to keep the UK fleet in check for at least a moderate amount of time.

[suprise attack]

Always do your best to eliminate the Royal Navy early in the game and keep it that way as long as possible. Once they get a Navy they’ll be landing on the Continent and it will be all over for Germany
  The Aircraft carrier ,Transport and Sub or Destroyer is a good bet to make the U.K. think Sea Lion and it can help sink any Navy’s that pop up
  There is only one country between Germany and Japan, Get the money and the Victory cities and take controll of the continent  then head to Africa or if your lucky enough to get the U.K. early then go for it.
  What the hell if you can stage well enough at Gib. then slam the U.S.A.
  Keep adding to the German Air Force even if you don’t loose any plane’s, keep the Sub force powerful for many reasons
  Hit Russia before they get strong

[Guest]

Stalingradski’s Barbarossa is very very good (except maybe try 3 armor + 3 infantry in the last wave of transports to Norway).  The problem with it is that it takes 4 turns before the attack is ready and the USSR has plenty of time to prepare a counterattack (i.e. many Infantry + AA + the 2 fighters in Leningrad and Ukraine; Infantry + some Artillery in Belarus and Western Ukraine; Armor + Mech + Tac in Bryansk; blockers in Baltic, East Poland and Bessarabia to slow things down if Italian armor is not present to be can opener; a few infantry in Caucasus to resist the Greece thing that comes too little too late).  The Red Army will hold the ground after both forces reduced through attrition.

[Stalingradski]

Thank you, Vance. What I’ve found since I posted is the importance of Italy in support - as you mentioned. Italy takes a territory, Germany reinforces. Repeat, over and over. This gives Italy IPCs, preserves whatever leftover Italians made it through the battle, allows Germany to not be attrited, and allows German air power to land and lock down territories.

In my last game, I forced a retreat from Moscow with a combined German force of approximately 36 Infantry, 10 Artillery, 6 Mech Infantry, and 14 Armor… along with typical Luftwaffe presence  - Tac bombers shifted to East Front to combine with Armor, Fighters playing defense in Italy/Germany. I was able to sustain German Infantry by having Italy do the heavy lifting.

It is a very methodical and patient process - Russia remains strong until Turns 10-12, but eventually has to give ground.

The important part is strong Atlantic and Med play, to allow you the time it takes to wear down Russia. This is not a quick kill strategy.

I like the 3 Armor/3 Infantry suggestion!

[Stalingradski]

A note about the IC/Airbase in Greece -

I still do this combo as a matter of course, but I don’t purchase anything in the Black Sea. Instead, I put a Destroyer or Sub in the Med every turn. Combined with the Airbase, plus the Airbase in S Italy, it really causes the Allies problems. Two Infantry a round as an ever-increasing defensive force is not a bad idea either. The Luftwaffe has tremendous flexibility from a Grecian Airbase - especially bombers - to bite into Russian territiories and return.

I tend to buy a Sub or Destroyer every round with Italy as well. Spiky Shields in the Med and N Atlantic are critical to long-term Barbarossa success.

With the Barabarossa as I detailed it, it’s also terribly important for Italy and Germany to dedicate a couple Infantry each and every round to slowly building up the defense of the Med underbelly and coastal France. The last thing you need is to get into an economic trade war/coastal attrition war with the US and Britain. Build and maintain stacks of Infantry. Later in the game, I tend to add an Artillery or two to my coastal defenses, as the US has enough IPCs to eventually crack a territory, and you’ll want to be able to counter.

[Guest]

Another thing that might help clinch an axis win is if Japan makes a serious effort against USSR, at least to remove those 18 far east divisions before they march back to Russia in time to reinforce Moscow.

The Mediterranean aspect of the Greece thing also makes it easy for Italy to go for Syria and then the oil in Iraq etc.  I notice that a fighter or Tac could take off in Gibraltar and land in Cyprus; it would be a weird scenario but perhaps good preventive medicine to drop an infantry on there just in case.

[JimmyHat]

I agree, the second time I lost a fleet off Syria was the final straw.  Now I take Cyprus when I move my Italian fleet there everytime.  Otherwise Allied aircraft can appear from out of nowhere.  Best example is a US purchase of an airbase, increasing the UK airforce’s range.

[Guest]

Another thought on Stalingradski’s operation barbarossa: How about instead of the aircraft carrier, just get 4 transports.  This could be interpreted by UK as a sea lion signal so they buy infantry, in which case Germany can move 10 units per turn to Norway and invade USSR a turn sooner.  If UK leaves London wide open without buying infantry, you could consider actually doing a sea lion on G2, if you took Normandy on G1 and put an airbase there G2 with 3 fighters to scramble in case UK attacks the fleet. This way barbarossa could get started when USSR is still weak but Sea lion is still plausible.

[Stalingradski]

My only concern Vance is Britain’s ability to counterattack the German fleet - typically Germany will have a Battleship, Cruiser, and three aircraft on the West German Airbase to protect Transports purchased. The chance of a British counter is very high in that case. The Carrier locks down that fleet - the two hits to kill plus extra two aircraft seals it.

I like your attitude! Perhaps a Destroyer and 3 Transports? Even that might not be enough, though. If I were Britain I’d pounce on it, even if it resulted in mutual annhilation.

A tweak, following your line of thought - perhaps an extra Transport purchased on G2 - eight units per round to Norway, and a stronger threat against Britain…

[Guest]

…and more infantry+artillery can be transported from from 113 to 115 for the amphibious assault (and maybe back and forth 114 to 115 again if necessary, with shore bombardment each time).  Imagine 5 transports dropping 10 units each time t. USSR would be in big trouble!

[Stalingradski]

I like it. I play against a person who expects three Transports out of me… four or five, with the purchases made at the right time, might also allow me a shot at a sneaky Sealion…

And the ability to lift 8-10 Infantry/Artillery per round to Leningrad from G4 on would be tough for Russia to withstand.