Axis and Allies Europe 1940 - Strategies

[Gargantua]

Why would anyone - EVER - want to “defend the coast” in Axis and Allies?

I mean that’s a lovely notion and all, but an absolute waste of IPC’s.

[Endeer]

I could see enough subs in the atlantic being a real obstacle for the allies, which may give them another turn or two to secure the VCs and obtain victory. On the other hand, if italy has taken the med. and egypt and north africa, than their IPC should be used to assist the eastern front via mech. infantry and tanks coming up from southern europe. They can also (if they have transports) surprise attack the caucuses. The latter situation being very hard to come by. But I would have to agree that atlantic defense may not be a smart thing to invest in for the Italians.

[rocknroll]

i have to agree to gargantua. it is a waste of ipcs. only exception i would make is w.germany. the reason for that should be clear.
actually, subs are seldom built, mostly as germany one per round at maximum. just for denying the british no-sub-NO.
and, i think, italy´s role is mostly to annoy the brits in the med. maybe one or two fast units via russia paired with one tank behind the german front lines is enough. italy can not afford more this way or it will go down.
faking sealion, imho, is a big waste, too. build mech instead! ;)

[Endeer]

I dont know, If a germany player takes out the English navy on turn one, than each sub will cost the the english 9 IPC before the americans can enter and the subs must be positioned for a counter attack. So a few subs would be profitable in and off themselves, but that isnt the problem. The real question is weather the germans can afford to suck the english dry, in my opinion the only way to effectively use subs is in masses which together can take the american navy and buy time. But this leaves the russian front without reinforcements. Opinions?

[special forces]

@Endeer:

I dont know, If a germany player takes out the English navy on turn one, than each sub will cost the the english 9 IPC before the americans can enter and the subs must be positioned for a counter attack. So a few subs would be profitable in and off themselves, but that isnt the problem. The real question is weather the germans can afford to suck the english dry, in my opinion the only way to effectively use subs is in masses which together can take the american navy and buy time. But this leaves the russian front without reinforcements. Opinions?

It will force the USA to spend more on fleet to get those wolfpacks, but finally that is not a bad thing, USA can afford it, and in a way the Axis are bringing the war (hence, their IPC’s) closer to them, which is profitable since the main weakness of USA is distance.
As Allies (and as Russia especially) i would prefer 10 subs in the Atlantic, compared to 10 tanks by the gates of Moskou, because those are  alot harder to handle.

Edit: maybe the UK might not agree :)

[Endeer]

I completely agree. If you recall the 10 subs into range of the us fleet they can sneak attack and really do some damage. And with these subs they can take away IPC from england. In my opinion they cost less initial damage to germany than to the allies IPC pool.

[special forces]

So you mean you completely _dis_agree? :)

[special forces]

@Endeer:

I completely agree. If you recall the 10 subs into range of the us fleet they can sneak attack and really do some damage. And with these subs they can take away IPC from england. In my opinion they cost less initial damage to germany than to the allies IPC pool.

They do damage to the UK, for sure.

But a US fleet needs to be strong enough: with enough subs (fodder and future convoy raiders), of course a few destroyers (if you’re gonna face 10 subs), and some heavier fleet (at least 1BB and 2 filled AC’s, preferably something more …), enough so that the damage of the 1st round (about … 3-4 hits on average?) of a sub attack can mostly be absorbed. And with enough defence to wipe out the German subs in  1 or 2 rounds.
And strong enough to go hunt thém down as well: airforce for the hitting, destroyer for allowing the airforce to see the subs and subs for obvious reasons).

After getting that job done, every unit of this fleet is still perfectly useful (and - unless they got into a crazy chase to the south pole - closeby Europe)

[Endeer]

“The US fleet must be strong enough” that is exactly what I’m saying. If the US has to build extra warships than it will greatly decrease the strength of their assaulting force. This can force the allies to wait a turn in order to get more troops to the beaches that are their targets thus giving more time to the axis to control and hold their 8 Victory cities.

[450thMSAF]

if i play axis i would bank subs 5 per SZ up against all borders of the usa so there fleet would have to wiat to get to all of the axis countries therefore making it harder because of my preparing time and set up naval bases your subs have 3 spaces to move to annoy your enemy

[special forces]

@450thMSAF:

if i play axis i would bank subs 5 per SZ up against all borders of the usa so there fleet would have to wiat to get to all of the axis countries therefore making it harder

“all” borders… meaning 2 seazones  :-D

A few reality checks:

1. USA will be building fleet before you get there. Since (some of) your subs can arrive at turn 3 at the soonest i’m afraid USA will have more than suffficient counter buys, including at least 1 destroyer they already have, and fodder subs, among other fleet. Your subs will be sitting… well… diving ducks.
And as it has been said above, USA will need to build up a fleet no matter if you send subs their way or not.

2. these build subs (see 1), which will also serve well later on (so you didn’t really make them buy useless things).
You cannot overlook 10 subs coming your way, so be sure they will be prepared for it.

3. this will cost you 60 IPC’s while you probably cannot even convoy raid SZ101, which leaves SZ89, for a glorious 3 IPC. Also, USA will likely smile if you bring all those IPC’s to their doorstep (i would, kinda evil grin). Russia will probably smile as well.

To sum it up: i wouldn’t recommend doing this.

because of my preparing time and set up naval bases your subs have 3 spaces to move to annoy your enemy

Set up naval bases? what exactly are you talking about?

[450thMSAF]

put naval bases arouund the map

[Alsch91]

Okay.  :roll:

[special forces]

So you get the Axis-discount?  :-D

[450thMSAF]

very funny.

[wartorn]

anyone know of the difference’s between the Europe 1940 and the 2nd edition other than noot being able to purchase AA guns in the second edition?

[Panther]

@wartorn:

anyone know of the difference’s between the Europe 1940 and the 2nd edition other than noot being able to purchase AA guns in the second edition?

You must have misunderstood something. Of course you can purchase AA guns in 2nd Edition. The concept of AA guns in 2nd edition of course differs from the first edition.

[wartorn]

OOB, AA guns didnt come with my game (nor did it come with the cardboard/paper ones like in the 1st edition) Rules say that they are automatically on any industrial complex placed on the board (whether from the start, or built at a later time), but you cant purchase and place them like other units, much like in prior A&A versions. They aren’t even under the “Unit Profiles” pages of the rule book. Instead there are AntiAircraft Artillery (AAA) that only get to fire once when defending a space that is being attacked. Each AAA rolls a max of 3 die, or 1 dice for each attacking aircraft (which ever is less) before the conduct combat phase (any aircraft hit must be removed immediately and can not take part in the combat phases to follow). Not like the prior AA guns that get to fire 1 dice for each enemy planes that were simply flying through zone containing an AA.

Am I mistaken?

And sorry that my post is misplaced. I do realize now that this is a Strategies topic

[Panther]

@wartorn:

OOB, AA guns didnt come with my game (nor did it come with the cardboard/paper ones like in the 1st edition) Rules say that they are automatically on any industrial complex placed on the board (whether from the start, or built at a later time), but you cant purchase and place them like other units, much like in prior A&A versions. They aren’t even under the “Unit Profiles” pages of the rule book. Instead there are AntiAircraft Artillery (AAA) that only get to fire once when defending a space that is being attacked. Each AAA rolls a max of 3 die, or 1 dice for each attacking aircraft (which ever is less) before the conduct combat phase (any aircraft hit must be removed immediately and can not take part in the combat phases to follow). Not like the prior AA guns that get to fire 1 dice for each enemy planes that were simply flying through zone containing an AA.

Am I mistaken?

No, you are perfectly right. I did not realize that you differ AA-guns from AA-artillery in your posting before. I summarized them all to AA-guns.
:-)

[Alex Henseleit]

In 1940 2nd edition Germany has a larger force near the eastern front. A strategy that has worked for me resulting in victory was first turn building 7 artillery on Berlin. You take France first turn while moving the rest of your forces to the eastern front. 2nd turn build as many tanks as possible and put them on Germany. On turn 3 you have your huge amounts of infantry paired up with your 7 extra artillery you got first turn and you move all your units on your border to eastern Poland and take Belorussia as well with a few mech or tanks. At the point the Russian player doesn’t know if you are going to assault Leningrad or stalingrad so he divides his forces to try to hold both. He will likely be placing 3 infantry on Ukraine, Stalingrad and Leningrad every turn but your target is in fact Moscow. With this massive blob of 20+ infantry, 20+ artillery, and 15+ tanks, the Russian player won’t have enough turns to defend against it. His army will be too far away at Ukraine and Leningrad to defend Moscow. If any of there larger armies get in your way, your massive blob can wipe it out in the 1st or 2nd round of combat while taking minimum loses. Once you have Moscow the axis basically win because one of the main allied powers is defeated. The Russians will have a tough time retaking there capital too seeing as they have mainly infantry with an attack of 1. The key to this is surprise and making sure all your forces attack Moscow at the same time. By turn 6 you should have Moscow in your hands. In case you are wondering about defending Germany’s own borders, just remember you are building new units each turn that can mop up any stray soviet troops. Like I said, this strategy usually doesn’t work twice against the same person because he will know to pull back his troops to defend Moscow when he sees the unstoppable blob brewing.