Hi Gungrinner
What a bummer. At least the Germans won’t be able to buy anything next turn either :)
Welcome to the site :)
I almost pulled it off
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whew, alot to catch up on, including another pm from the almighty idi himself.
nothing in this game is guaranteed, including this strategy. the beauty in it that i found is that it’s never been done before (at least in my group), in any incarnation of axis and allies, the us proper is NEVER attacked. i thought it would be interesting to see if it could be done and it could ONCE.
moving the italy fleet to sz 92 during I2 is a good idea. it allows for more OPTIONS, which is the key of this strategy and this particular game.
as far as trolling goes or whatever, i can say that some people make fun of what they don’t like or understand to feel better about themselves. I posted this idea cause it was exciting to plan out ahead of time and to witness it in action. the allies were like "Holy S**t!!, he’s going for the US and they had to scramble back out of their comfort zone, changing alot of what usually happen in this game…
Anyways i digress, other changes that i thought of :
more german transports (i bought alot of capital navy, thinking the US would have more capital ships in the atlantic by then)
Splitting the german fleet on G3 (moving some of the fleet (namely ACC to allow fighters and tacs to attack EUS would have helped also
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@mantlefan:
Is it illegal for the Italians to move to 91 for some reason?
Not once they take Gibraltar. Seems like getting the Italian navy to 91 by the end of I2 (in place to attack I3) would be pretty tough, though, and even if you did get it there, it would be more likely to telegraph the attack on the U.S.
the beauty in it that i found is that it’s never been done before (at least in my group), in any incarnation of axis and allies, the us proper is NEVER attacked. i thought it would be interesting to see if it could be done and it could ONCE.
Agreed. It probably wouldn’t work more than once, but it might cause the U.S. to up defensive production in later games, which can be a boon in itself. As was mentioned, the U.S. could upgrade factories early, but, hey, twenty less bucks to spend. I’d be happy to fake the 'Murikans into tossing that cash.
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When I was designing a USA first strategy, I overcame the Gibraltar issue by assuring it would be in axis control regardless of allied actions. I like to take away the roadblocks in the strategy design, as it sucks to spend 2 turns planning and moving and then see it all become pointless after an allied block.
This is accomplished by sending one of the turn 1 transports to Gibraltar on G2. That way, Italy can at the very least clear and non-combat move to 91(w. Gibraltar). This of course telegraphs your intentions a bit.
If you do not want to lose the transports, and you plan on a second carrier, send the turn 1 fleet with it for protection, the only counter I found that is not likely to be chosen is an UK air attack that lands in any of the UK,Dutch,or French territories off sea zone 88 (S. America)
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russia seems like it’ll go down a bit quicker. who knows.
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@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
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@Idi:
@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
actually in this scenario, germany could take central US, Japan then takes WUS and the US has no way to retake WUS and then Japan could land aircraft there and place units there the next turn. so taking CUS could have strategic value.
i also failed to mention that during the US’s collect income phase on US4, they had convoy loses of 17 :-D
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@Idi:
@Idi:
@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
actually in this scenario,
What colour is the sky in your little world of KAF?
how does your last quote add to the discussion?
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Lets settle down please!
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@mantlefan:
@Idi:
@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
How are 3 reinforcements a turn (Minor IC) “NO reinforcements”
Like I said, if USA takes C USA back, they might be susceptible to a severe japan counter.
How do you build out of a factory you have just taken? As for a Japanese counter attack: If WUS upgrades USA1 they would never even try to invade.
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@Idi:
@mantlefan:
@Idi:
@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
How are 3 reinforcements a turn (Minor IC) “NO reinforcements”
Like I said, if USA takes C USA back, they might be susceptible to a severe japan counter.
How do you build out of a factory you have just taken?
On G4, Germany takes CUS, on J4, Japan takes WUS. On US 4 , US takes back CUS. On G5, Germany lands aircraft on WUS. On J5, Japan builds 3 fighters for WUS and lands all available aircraft on WUS
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@mantlefan:
Lol if USA upgrades USA1 I say mission accopmplished and laugh at their waste of 20 IPCs and pursue a more conventional strat.
Heck yeah.
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@mantlefan:
@Idi:
@mantlefan:
@Idi:
@mantlefan:
USA also needs to be careful of retaking central USA outright from the Germans becuase this may open them to a japan counter, depending. It’s quite hard for the USA to defend BOTH W and E (much less all 3) if they don’t know what’s coming round 1 (or as will likely be the case, round 2)
Wow I can’t even believe your still going on about this No-win strat. At lease if you do Sealion you get the UK cash and stop them from building any new units. Taking central USA has ZERO strategic value and you don’t get the America cash not to mention you have NO reinforcements. With this strat you are going to bankrupt the Axis for a gain of 12 IPCS. Way go Noobkiller
How are 3 reinforcements a turn (Minor IC) “NO reinforcements”
Like I said, if USA takes C USA back, they might be susceptible to a severe japan counter.
How do you build out of a factory you have just taken? As for a Japanese counter attack: If WUS upgrades USA1 they would never even try to invade.
Lol if USA upgrades USA1 I say mission accopmplishedand laught at their waste of 20 IPCs and pursue a more conventional strat. If they know it’s coming it doesn;t work, obviously. Have any valid points?
I would gladly pay 20IPC’s to see you go on a more conventional mission. At least it would shut you up going on and on about your fantasy of invading the USA. This isn’t even your thread but you talk like you have been conquering America for years. Your just riding along on keplar galvin’s coatails trying to steal his thunder……
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Why would you want your opponent to go on a more conventional mission, if the unconventional one is doomed to failure, as you seem to believe? Wouldn’t it be better to “sucker” the Axis into a (in your opinion) hopeless American ground war?
@Idi:
Your just riding along on keplar galvin’s coatails trying to steal his thunder……
Weird. I don’t see “Hey, that’s not a bad idea! Let’s explore it further!” as thunder-theft. I would think that would apply more to statements like, “What a worthless strat! That will only word on nooBs!”
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@mantlefan:
If you have the time, could you post what you sent to each of those 5 SZ’s?
It seems like at least in 110 UK could have mopped the floor with you. Did you pull off 106 with only 1 sub?
no problem
vs 112 - 113 fleet, poland tac, slovac fighter, ftr and tac from west germany
vs 111 - 2 subs, 1 fighter, 1 tacs, 1 bomber
vs 106 - 1 sub
vs 109 - 1 sub, 1 fighter (uk also didn’t scramble here, same sea lion paranoia)
vs 110 - 1 sub, fighter, 2 tacspretty sure this is it… 95% sure
Try this instead:
sz111 2 sb, 1 fht, 1 tac, 1 bmb
sz110 2 sb, 3 fht, 3 tac
sz106 1 sb (chancy, or use it somewhere else)
sz112 1 CA, 1 BB
remaing 2 planes to southern Italy (or hit sz112 with them.
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I also am intrigued by the idea, I’ve only gotten 1 and a half games under my belt, but it is interesting to see the idea discussed. I have an easy solution for the Idi Amin problem though. When he chimes in with worthless comments, try not even responding. Respond only to input on the strategy. Who cares what he or anyone else thinks if its a worthless idea, that just means they’ll be unprepared for it when it shows up against them in play.
In the end, its just a game, and this is just an online discussion forum. So deal with the constructive ideas and ignore the drivel, that way everyone(Idi) will wise up and realize the only way they can enter the discussion is with valid opinions. BRILLIANT!
Wish I could add more to the thread, but with my limited knowledge I’m still having trouble pulling off the Sealion correctly. Perhaps in the future…
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This is a great thread. This is the kind of stuff I registered for, so it’s too bad some people are such negative Nellys. Who cares if it sounds crazy–splitting the atom used to be a preposterous idea too.
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Settle down people. Come on Idi, lets try to tone down the language.
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ok…. so last night we finished the game where i did this strategy and the allies conceded. the only negative thing i found from the axis point of view was that japan stalled in asia. perhaps an IC or more transports to asia would have helped, but that was a small problem.
the 2nd turn after the failed attack, Japan was able to consolidate their fleet into a giant fleet in hawaii and keep the US at bay in the pacific for the remainder of the game. Japan held their ground in asia and was island hopping in the pacific. The US was never really able to do anything in the Atlantic, which allowed Italy to concentrate on taking Egypt and rolling through the Middle east. Italy was making 26 in objectives by the last turn. something about Italy bringing 50+ ipc’s per turn is scary. On the last turn they took south africa, basically finishing off UK in Africa.
Germany had plenty of units to eventually break russia. i kept streaming infantry towards romania, and building up tanks and art, until i had enough to take the ukraine factory and the very next turn the factory in the north (whatever that one is called)
i might do something similar to this another time because of the time it gives italy w/o worrying about gibrolter and the US getting into the Med. i think that made a HUGE difference for the axis powers, especially Italy.
It can be done , remember the US has no idea anything is happening til turn 3, maybe a small inkling on turn 2. The element of surprise is in the axis hands.
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Excellent thread. Interesting stuff.
Might work a time or two then would likely slow down the US liberation of Uk in future Sealions.
:mrgreen:
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ok…. so last night we finished the game where i did this strategy and the allies conceded. the only negative thing i found from the axis point of view was that japan stalled in asia. perhaps an IC or more transports to asia would have helped, but that was a small problem.
OMG You mean as Japan you never built even 1 IC on the mainland> Whoops I forgot about your previous post regarding the UK player not scrambling turn 1 to defend his fleet. So I’m assuming he turtled in India if you never placed any IC’s on the mainland. I just don’t see your KAF working on any experienced player.
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