IL's KISS Generals rules for Global 40

[Imperious Leader]

OK first off you ask: why do we need this?

1. Map has many more land areas, and movement is the same.
2. Different units added but only 2 types of bonus for combined arms
3. Still the defender can’t retreat in combat

Now you ask: is this another complicated IL house rule that is not kiss?

1. no

Generals:

1. To facilitate movement: all units starting with General may move with that General for a maximum of two spaces ( even infantry)
2. On the defense: Units with General may retreat after at least one combat round.
3. On the attack: Every combination of 1 Infantry, 1 non-infantry land unit, and 1 plane, gets a free extra die roll hitting on a 2 or less. You must have one of the three types to get this extra roll.

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

OK first off you ask: why do we need this?

1. Map has many more land areas, and movement is the same.
2. Different units added but only 2 types of bonus for combined arms
3. Still the defender can’t retreat in combat

Now you ask: is this another complicated IL house rule that is not kiss?

1. no

Generals:

1. To facilitate movement: all units starting with General may move with that General for a maximum of two spaces ( even infantry)
2. On the defense: Units with General may retreat after at least one combat round.
3. On the attack: Every combination of 1 Infantry, 1 non-infantry land unit, and 1 plane, gets a free extra die roll hitting on a 2 or less. You must have one of the three types to get this extra roll.

Sorry IL, I dont see how the general can help infantry move two. I like the retreat after one round of combat. We have been using that one. Not sure I understand #3. Do you mean that each como of three gets to roll one die? We have been letting land units choose targets on round one with a general. (targeting other land units only)

[lnmajor]

letting land units choose targets on round one with general, great idea! :wink:

[Imperious Leader]

Sorry IL, I dont see how the general can help infantry move two. I like the retreat after one round of combat. We have been using that one. Not sure I understand #3. Do you mean that each como of three gets to roll one die? We have been letting land units choose targets on round one with a general. (targeting other land units only)

General = Headquarters

HQ tabulates the fuel and ammo requisitions and the leadership has the moxie to march troops farther than a leader with less qualities.

Patton’s drive to Messina before Montgomery, Pattons 3rd army turn around at the Bulge, Guderians record tank drives in France and Russia, Mansteins retreat and counterblow in early 1943, etc.

Good generals have the tensity to get troops to move farther in battle.

Also, a good general knows how to employ the various coordination of military forces to use them with devastating effect. If you understand how to integrate the infantry, air, and mobile land units you should get some extra.

Considered was obvious +1 stuff, but it is too imbalancing to have some or all units getting boosted. However, promoting the use of combined arms would reduce the small advantage and at the same time promote buying all types of units… this was the direction i felt needed support and could fit.

Letting them choose targets was considered for a ‘Admiral’ concept, but ships are costly, and a bonus would make the game more imbalanced. Land targeting just seemed a bit unclear…

How can a general say " hey today we just kill you, but not you"  Honestly, in battle tanks go against tanks, infantry against infantry, and planes vs. planes.  This is realistic to say units of like type can and must damage their own kind. But this is not AA anymore.

I think that bonus you propose is a bit strong …too strong of an advantage… they become tank killers and thats what they should be unless combat system was totally redesigned.

[Jennifer]

And here I thought KISS rules would just be AA50 rules with AA40 pieces and map. /sigh

Generals/Admirals are nice, and if you want to play test it with me, I am more than game, IL, but I don’t think they would make the game anymore “KISS”.

To make it KISS I would discard the scramble orders entirely.  Makes the game faster too

[Imperious Leader]

To make it KISS I would discard the scramble orders entirely.

I would allow scramble to ANY adjacent area, but it does make it longer while other ideas can make the game shorter.

But alot of other ideas make the game longer …alot longer.

1. get rid of NCM
2. count income at start of turn, not end
3. get rid of NO’s that are cash based
4. combine some of the player turns

[Jennifer]

I like the idea of counting income at the start of the round.  It does not add any time to the game and makes the whole trading of territories pointless.  You either hold it, or you dont hold it.

I do not like scramble orders.  I just don’t.  Not saying it’s unbalanced, not saying its a bad rule, I just hate interrupting my entire turn for 24-48 hours waiting for a response on someone scrambling or not and it isn’t really something you can broadcast.

[Imperious Leader]

I just hate interrupting my entire turn for 24-48 hours waiting for a response on someone scrambling or not and it isn’t really something you can broadcast.

Yes i can see how problematic this can be in online games. I only play OTB ( over the board).  So thats the real reason you hate them. OK.

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

Sorry IL, I dont see how the general can help infantry move two. I like the retreat after one round of combat. We have been using that one. Not sure I understand #3. Do you mean that each como of three gets to roll one die? We have been letting land units choose targets on round one with a general. (targeting other land units only)

General = Headquarters

HQ tabulates the fuel and ammo requisitions and the leadership has the moxie to march troops farther than a leader with less qualities.

Patton’s drive to Messina before Montgomery, Pattons 3rd army turn around at the Bulge, Guderians record tank drives in France and Russia, Mansteins retreat and counterblow in early 1943, etc.

Good generals have the tensity to get troops to move farther in battle.

Also, a good general knows how to employ the various coordination of military forces to use them with devastating effect. If you understand how to integrate the infantry, air, and mobile land units you should get some extra.

Considered was obvious +1 stuff, but it is too imbalancing to have some or all units getting boosted. However, promoting the use of combined arms would reduce the small advantage and at the same time promote buying all types of units… this was the direction i felt needed support and could fit.

Letting them choose targets was considered for a ‘Admiral’ concept, but ships are costly, and a bonus would make the game more imbalanced. Land targeting just seemed a bit unclear…

How can a general say " hey today we just kill you, but not you"  Honestly, in battle tanks go against tanks, infantry against infantry, and planes vs. planes.  This is realistic to say units of like type can and must damage their own kind. But this is not AA anymore.

I think that bonus you propose is a bit strong …too strong of an advantage… they become tank killers and thats what they should be unless combat system was totally redesigned.

My idea was for generals to select targets not casualties. Before any dice are rolled the general that has three tanks declares that his three tanks are shooting at two mech. inf. He gets three hits. the two mech. inf. are killed and one hit is wasted. And so on until the first round of combat is over. From then on back to regular combat. Of course this will make the game a little longer but a lot of house rules do that.

[Jennifer]

Oh, yes, well, I do not “hate” them, that is such a strong word to use, and I levy what I shall say I “hate” against my feelings for a certain person who shall not be named to see if my feelings truely live up to that level of disgust, or if it is just an inconvenience.

In this case, it slows the game down too much, therefore, it inconveniences me.

[Imperious Leader]

My idea was for generals to select targets not casualties. Before any dice are rolled the general that has three tanks declares that his three tanks are shooting at two mech. inf. He gets three hits. the two mech. inf. are killed and one hit is wasted. And so on until the first round of combat is over. From then on back to regular combat. Of course this will make the game a little longer but a lot of house rules do that.

OOOOHHHH. I see.  So this could only work for tanks then right?

Only if he has tanks, each tank with general can ‘target’ what it is hitting….

Yes this is better!!!

I will change it to:

1. general allows movement of two spaces ( even infantry) as long as the units move together
2. on defense you can retreat after any round
3. of attack your tanks can select their target; if they hit the selected unit dies.

anything else?

Defense is already like a 2:1 advantage. I dont feel they need any boost in combat

HOWEVER; in original home areas infantry defending with general might be at +1 for first combat round? or perhaps just VC areas?

[Fishmoto37]

@Imperious:

My idea was for generals to select targets not casualties. Before any dice are rolled the general that has three tanks declares that his three tanks are shooting at two mech. inf. He gets three hits. the two mech. inf. are killed and one hit is wasted. And so on until the first round of combat is over. From then on back to regular combat. Of course this will make the game a little longer but a lot of house rules do that.

OOOOHHHH. I see.  So this could only work for tanks then right?

Only if he has tanks, each tank with general can ‘target’ what it is hitting….

Yes this is better!!!

I will change it to:

1. general allows movement of two spaces ( even infantry) as long as the units move together
2. on defense you can retreat after any round
3. of attack your tanks can select their target; if they hit the selected unit dies.

anything else?

Defense is already like a 2:1 advantage. I dont feel they need any boost in combat

HOWEVER; in original home areas infantry defending with general might be at +1 for first combat round? or perhaps just VC areas?

If the defender has a general then the attacker will have to give more thought to his setup for the attack. But he must also remember that the defending general also has the retreat option after one round of combat. Like maybe the attacker might want to hold out his armor and move them in on non-combat or maybe he just wants to strafe the defender and pull back for some reason. Maybe the defender has made a mistake and left a number of tanks in a territory without infantry support and the attacker just wants to kill a bunch of expensive units. Sorry, I am starting to ramble. Got to go and prepare for todays AAG1940 session.

[Jennifer]

Why not just say if you have a general, your units fire to hit identical units first, whatever’s left if there is nothing of your type left?

Infantry and/or Mechanical hits Infantry or Mechanicals
Armor hits Armor
Artillery hits Artillery
Fighters/Tactical Bombers hit Fighters/Tactical Bombers
Strategic Bombers on both sides default to traditional, because let’s face it, no one scrambled B-17s to defend against an attack, why a strategic bomber has a defense value at all is a mystery to me, except for Air to Air Combat.

[Imperious Leader]

Why not just say if you have a general, your units fire to hit identical units first, whatever’s left if there is nothing of your type left?

The change is too dramatic to install. Its like using a new set of combat engagement rules when you got a General. Just having tanks select targets and the defender able to retreat is a good ying yang approach for each side. The attacker can destroy what he wants as long as his tanks hits, and the defender can retreat and fight another day. It sets up interesting new strategies, without dramatic game changing ideas.

[Jennifer]

Yea, but I just dont see tanks having the ability to hit bombers and fighter/tbombers.  Maybe tanks can select any ground unit they want to hit, but then to rebalance, prohibit them from hitting aircraft.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

Yea, but I just dont see tanks having the ability to hit bombers and fighter/tbombers.  Maybe tanks can select any ground unit they want to hit, but then to rebalance, prohibit them from hitting aircraft.

Yes, my intent was to limit the targeting to ground units. The other units not directed by the general could hit aircraft in the first round if the defender does not have enough fodder. The planes could be hit in the second round of combat by anything as normal.