England and France said they would go to war to protect poland from invasion. Then when poland is invaded they say this is the reason for war. so they delcare war on germany.
But what about the soviet union. why in hell didnt they declare war on the soviet union?
i’ll tell you why……b/c protecting poland wasn’t the reason to go to war. it was one group of elites trying to protect their wealth against another group of elites.
then those warmongers for the second time in a row conned america into joining a war effort b/c the aristocratic elites of the allied powers knew they couldnt beat germany without american help. so they kept trying to devise ways to either con germany into attacking america by having america carry out overt acts of non neutrality by using american destroyers to protect american lend lease shipments. when the germans didnt sink any ameircan vessels, they decided to goad japan into attacking america.
America was once again suckered into fighting a war that was not its war to fight. So many midwestern boys died to european artistocrats could keep wealth and power its sickening.
what say you guys. ever wonder why england and france never declared war on the USSR for invading poland?
Because it would be impossible to defeat Germany and Russia at the same time?
I assume you think that FDR had advanced knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack?
And I also assume you think that Zeitgist is completely accurate?
Germany declared war on the USA after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, fulfilling their treaty with Tokyo.
Don’t forget that Germany was annexing/given territory to prevent another World War. Czechs, Austrians, The Saar, etc.
The False War after 9/1/39 showed how unprepared France and Britan were to back up Poland.
In my opinion, the Pacific War was purley based on economics, and to a lesser degree cultural misunderstandings. The war with Germany was based on ideology, as well as economics. Germany (at the time) was a society based on fear and power worship coming off a humilating defeat of WWI.
As for the USSR, I feel that UK/France knew they could not expect to take down both Germany and the Soviets, thus they “looked the other way” when Eastern Poland was consumed.
America was not conned into war. In my thoughts, FDR knew the dangers of losing democracy if the UK fell.
USA entered at war just because Japan attacked them, pure and simple. And Japan attacked USA because Japan needed the Dutch East Indies resources (for their war against China and because Japan only had oild reserves to some months), and they couldn’t take that for safe with yankees in the rear (Philippines). Then, Hitler was enough stupid to DOW USA, but he didn’t need do so (the treaty with Tokyo was if any Axis power was attacked, but this time the attacker was in fact an Axis power)
I always wondered what if Philippines and the former Spanish colonies in the Pacific were independent or Spanish by that time (Cuban war 1898 not happened or Spain won it - probably due alien tech support or something :mrgreen: ). Probably USA would not enter to WWII, because Japan would ignore any Spanish / independent Philippines fleet or simply stomp them without much effort and USA would not care a bit about Franco’s Pacific holdings … Japan could even try Spain join the Axis and use Philippines as allied base to attack India, DEI and Australia
Any case, USA not entering in the war would probably mean or Axis victory or soviet armies in Paris, Madrid and Beijing … a more difficult Cold War
There are other more complicated reasons why UK/France declared war in 1939.
Poland was just the “last straw”
Rhine Land
Austria
Czechoslovakia
Breaking the Lecarno Pact
Breaking the Treaty of Versailles
There are other more complicated reasons why UK/France declared war in 1939.
Breaking the Treaty of Versailles
Well yes, (Germany) breaking a slave treaty was not comforting for France and UK,as it was not for Americans who saw blacks trying to breaking free in the state of (i.e) Alabama…
If you have the giant by the balls… but oh well… but it turned out to be a “bit more difficult” than that…
It lasted 6 years in Europe!
Like I said… It is very complicated.
It’s just not Black and White… or about Poland
I don’t think the UK and France wanted to go to war at all. They still hadn’t paid off WWI and the horror of that war was still fresh in the memories of many veterans and citizens. This is why Hitlers previous annexations were essentially unopposed. There were also decent arguments for Hitlers early annexations also…primarily the German populations in Austria (the Greater Germany theory) and Czechoslovakia (with a large German minority).
However, with each concession, Hitler became more bold and less defendable and at some point his aggression simply could not be overlooked by the UK and France - this happened at Poland.
Also, regarding the USSR, there were many calls for a war against them as well. But, as with Germany, no one wanted another WWI style quagmire.
The Allies went to war to defend Poland, only to give Poland away to 50 years of slavery to the Soviet Union.
@ABWorsham:
The Allies went to war to defend Poland, only to give Poland away to 50 years of slavery to the Soviet Union.
The sad thing is there was nothing they could do… Churchill tried VERY hard, but the Soviets were keeping what they conquered. There was no way the Western Allies and Commonwealth were going to fight ANOTHER World War just over the issue.
@ABWorsham:
The Allies went to war to defend Poland, only to give Poland away to 50 years of slavery to the Soviet Union.
The sad thing is there was nothing they could do… Churchill tried VERY hard, but the Soviets were keeping what they conquered. There was no way the Western Allies and Commonwealth were going to fight ANOTHER World War just over the issue.
Especially since Britain was about to lose the Indian army, which was larger than the British Army.
And even the relations with the Commonwealth members were stretched to the limit, like Australia.
In the US, the public was also tired of the war and wanted it to end.
While the general public, and allied leaders at large were in no mood for more war, there were those who did want to address the Soviet threat directly. Notable among them was General Patton:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Patton
…Patton was relieved of duty after openly revolting against the punitive occupation directive JCS 1067.[54] His view of the war was that with Hitler gone, the German army could be rebuilt into an ally in a potential war against the Russians, whom Patton notoriously despised and considered a greater menace than the Germans. During this period, he wrote that the Allied victory would be in vain if it led to a tyrant worse than Hitler and an army of “Mongolian savages” controlling half of Europe. Eisenhower had at last had enough, relieving Patton of all duties and ordering his return to the United States…
@ABWorsham:
The Allies went to war to defend Poland, only to give Poland away to 50 years of slavery to the Soviet Union.
The sad thing is there was nothing they could do… Churchill tried VERY hard, but the Soviets were keeping what they conquered. There was no way the Western Allies and Commonwealth were going to fight ANOTHER World War just over the issue.
Its terrible ironic isnt it. We went to war in the first place to defend Poland only to abandon after it seemed another war would occur again if the allies tried to take it back.
Personally I think the Americans have never really been happy with the responsibilities that come with being the most powerful nation on earth. Post WW1 had the Americans flexed their diplomatic and economic muscle the world could of been a much more peaceful place throughout the 20th century and we could of had a “Pax Americana” aka a long peroid of relative peace. Britain managed it for nearly a century from a small island in Western Europe with a relatively small population, had the Americans put their heart and soul into making the world a more peaceful place they would of suceeded who would of been able to stop them? The British, French and Soviets already wanted to maintain the status quo so mantaining the peace would of been relatively simple if the Americans with the co-operation Britain and France could of stopped Germany and Japan long before war occured and turned them into the economic superpowers they became post WW2.
I respect the sacrifice of the American people in WW2, but by the same token thats what comes with being top dog you have to protect those not strong enough to protect themselves and help mediate disputes so they dont turn into wars in the first place.
The Americans were conned into nothing, if anything it was reckless and irresponsible not to get involved earlier and make sure a war didnt occur in the first place. Even if the war was inevitability the U.S with the help of the British and French could of crushed the Germans in September 1939. I think it speaks volumes about American politicians that it was the British who stood up and fought against Germany even though it had by far the most to lose and in the end sacrificed its empire at the altar of freedom because the Americans were “busy” from September 1939 to December 1941.
The problem with America is it wants desperately to not be like the British empire unfourtunetly thats more or less the way they should be bar the colonial oppression. They have to realise that you can take the positives of the British empire and leave the negatives and shape the world you want it to, or at least they could of before they made everyone hate them.
In Europe folks in the know saw what the Germans were. It would be like letting the Klan take over the US and invade Canada.
The Western Europeans had been redrawing their lines in the mud for 1500 years with few major changes. Germany just pushed too far. The poor Brits knew they were stretched financially and needed help fighting a huge war on two fronts. Amazing they did as well as they did.
I am on my cell phone……what do I recall about Churchill the Fins and the Soviets? I do believe pregmatism won out. Hitler was the more immediate threat than Stalin. Great choice to have to make. Probably helped out by it being the second time in thirty years Germany tried to take over the world and the Soviet ppl being less like Klansmen than the average German even though both their rulers were monsters.
The Americans were conned into nothing, if anything it was reckless and irresponsible not to get involved earlier and make sure a war didnt occur in the first place. Even if the war was inevitability the U.S with the help of the British and French could of crushed the Germans in September 1939. I think it speaks volumes about American politicians that it was the British who stood up and fought against Germany even though it had by far the most to lose and in the end sacrificed its empire at the altar of freedom because the Americans were “busy” from September 1939 to December 1941.
That sure is food for thought.
Finally, the USA had gotten alot out of it as well (German schientists and technology to name something)
I respect the sacrifice of the American people in WW2, but by the same token thats what comes with being top dog you have to protect those not strong enough to protect themselves and help mediate disputes so they dont turn into wars in the first place.
The Americans were conned into nothing, if anything it was reckless and irresponsible not to get involved earlier and make sure a war didnt occur in the first place. Even if the war was inevitability the U.S with the help of the British and French could of crushed the Germans in September 1939. I think it speaks volumes about American politicians that it was the British who stood up and fought against Germany even though it had by far the most to lose and in the end sacrificed its empire at the altar of freedom because the Americans were “busy” from September 1939 to December 1941.
The problem with America is it wants desperately to not be like the British empire unfourtunetly thats more or less the way they should be bar the colonial oppression. They have to realise that you can take the positives of the British empire and leave the negatives and shape the world you want it to, or at least they could of before they made everyone hate them.
i just watched an episode of ww2 in color and it said that in july 1940 in a poll, only 8 percent of the american people wanted any part of another bloodbath brought to the world by europeans. have far as americans were concerned, the europeans could go to hell. And thats exactly what i think too. Why should american boys go and die over a power squabble b/w the elites of european nations?
the very fact that the war monger FDR even tried to conjole americans into war to get 200k+ americans men killed is terrible. our nation is founded on being the will of the people, and our elected officials being servamts and subserviant to the people.
the very fact that america had to do everything in its power to antagonize japan into attacking so the europeans could get america into their war is just criminal.
this is irregardless of you moral question of it was “better” that americans should go get killed and kill for a nation that it not their own
FDR did not make Hitler declare war on the US.
Don’t bring up Osama/terrorism and current POLITICAL statements. This is only about Germany back in 1939.
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