Italy a bad design

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

Actually they found a flaw in my plans. Baltic transports are prone to planes reaching.

But alas i have a new solution to still do the job!

V4 ( vengeance weapon #4)

Builds: 1 DD, 3 AP

Attack: SZ 106 with 2 subs ( no more tank and infantry)

Attack: SZ 110 with 2 subs, 2 fighters, 1 Tactical at 4

Attack: SZ 111 with 1 sub, 1 Bomber, 1 tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

Attack SZ 112 with 1 BB, 1 Tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

all planes used.

IN NCM the CA blocks the CV and DD from Gibraltar in SZ 110 and sits with 1-2 subs.

Germans have 2 fleets:

110 they got 1 CA and 1-2 SS
112 they got 1 BB, 1 DD, 1-2 SS, and 4 AP

UK must kill 112 with 3 fighters or face its downfall.

Problem is Germany can lose that fleet in the exchange and everybody dies.

They can also attack with the tac and send the DD against the CC which could kill that fleet and allow the carrier to pick up the tac. Take the tac as a casualty first so you don’t endanger the carrier.

[bugoo]

Or, just wait for Japan to take Egypt around turn 5, land 20+ planes and secure the med as well!

[SgtBlitz]

@Imperious:

Actually they found a flaw in my plans. Baltic transports are prone to planes reaching.

But alas i have a new solution to still do the job!

V4 ( vengeance weapon #4)

Builds: 1 DD, 3 AP

Attack: SZ 106 with 2 subs ( no more tank and infantry)

Attack: SZ 110 with 2 subs, 2 fighters, 1 Tactical at 4

Attack: SZ 111 with 1 sub, 1 Bomber, 1 tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

Attack SZ 112 with 1 BB, 1 Tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

all planes used.

IN NCM the CA blocks the CV and DD from Gibraltar in SZ 110 and sits with 1-2 subs.

Germans have 2 fleets:

110 they got 1 CA and 1-2 SS
112 they got 1 BB, 1 DD, 1-2 SS, and 4 AP

UK must kill 112 with 3 fighters or face its downfall.

Problem is Germany can lose that fleet in the exchange and everybody dies.

Great idea, IL!  That CA block is something I never would have thought of (too used to using brute force vs. maneuvering to get the job done)!  Here’s a nice addition…  How about instead of stacking all those APs in with the BB and DD, you put them in SZ 113 instead!  They can still reach SZ 110 (move 3 spaces from SZ 113), but are out of reach of UK fighters!

In fact, IF the UK goes after your BB/DD/SS or CA/SS stack, they’re just weakening their airforce they could be using for defense!  Your own airforce is still largely intact and can easily blow up any little blocking fleet the UK tries to put up with the CV in SZ 110.

Hell, why not go all out and build 4 transports G1 and make sure you take out the UK Round 2!  I think as long as you manage to not get diced too badly in France, UK SZs, and the UK itself, Germany stands ready to take the UK with minimal losses on G2!

IL, with that CA block you may have singlehandedly broken AAE40.  I’m going to post it up as a separate thread now.  I’m hope you’re proud.  :-D

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SgtBlitz:

@Imperious:

Actually they found a flaw in my plans. Baltic transports are prone to planes reaching.

But alas i have a new solution to still do the job!

V4 ( vengeance weapon #4)

Builds: 1 DD, 3 AP

Attack: SZ 106 with 2 subs ( no more tank and infantry)

Attack: SZ 110 with 2 subs, 2 fighters, 1 Tactical at 4

Attack: SZ 111 with 1 sub, 1 Bomber, 1 tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

Attack SZ 112 with 1 BB, 1 Tactical at 4 and 1 Fighter

all planes used.

IN NCM the CA blocks the CV and DD from Gibraltar in SZ 110 and sits with 1-2 subs.

Germans have 2 fleets:

110 they got 1 CA and 1-2 SS
112 they got 1 BB, 1 DD, 1-2 SS, and 4 AP

UK must kill 112 with 3 fighters or face its downfall.

Problem is Germany can lose that fleet in the exchange and everybody dies.

Great idea, IL!  That CA block is something I never would have thought of (too used to using brute force vs. maneuvering to get the job done)!  Here’s a nice addition…  How about instead of stacking all those APs in with the BB and DD, you put them in SZ 113 instead!  They can still reach SZ 110 (move 3 spaces from SZ 113), but are out of reach of UK fighters!

In fact, IF the UK goes after your BB/DD/SS or CA/SS stack, they’re just weakening their airforce they could be using for defense!  Your own airforce is still largely intact and can easily blow up any little blocking fleet the UK tries to put up with the CV in SZ 110.

Hell, why not go all out and build 4 transports G1 and make sure you take out the UK Round 2!  I think as long as you manage to not get diced too badly in France, UK SZs, and the UK itself, Germany stands ready to take the UK with minimal losses on G2!

IL, with that CA block you may have singlehandedly broken AAE40.  I’m going to post it up as a separate thread now.  I’m hope you’re proud.   :-D

Britis also do some maneuvering. DD in Z91 attacks the CC block, so that in theory the carrier can come into Z10 and pick up the  ftr that will be attacking the 4 undefended transports in the Baltic. The UK loses a DD and ftr(18 ipcs) for 4 transports(28 ipcs)

[tloger]

Can you NCM through a seazone in which a battle has taken place?

[gamerman01]

@RogertheShrubber:

Can you NCM through a seazone in which a battle has taken place?

Yes, if all enemy surface warships are gone.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@RogertheShrubber:

Can you NCM through a seazone in which a battle has taken place?

Yes, if it has no enemy surface warships

[Imperious Leader]

Well i didn’t break the game…But it would be most fun to do that!!

Vengeance plan #5 is into action!!!

Go V5!!

Builds ( back to 1 CV and 2 AP)

Attack SZ 106 with 1 sub ( UK has 1 DD) 2 vs. 2.
Attack SZ 109 1 fighter vs. 1 DD 3 vs. 2.
Attack SZ 110 2 subs, 1 tactical, 1 fighter, 1 bomber vs. 1 BB, 1 DD ( should win)
Attack SZ 111 2 subs, 1 tactical, 1 Fighter, vs. 1 BB, 1 CA ( should win)
Attack SZ 112 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 tactical, 1 Fighter vs 2 CA ( should win hit on BB)
One last sub blocks at SZ 104

Place all builds and 2 fighters on the CV in 112 with 3 AP. Now you got 1 BB, 1 CA, 1 CV and 2 fighters against 3 fighters attacking. I win in that.

UK cant attack my protected fleet the SS blocks in SZ 104, On top i got 2 subs so you can’t get to me.

Also i can now invade either side of UK!!!

You only got that DD and CV and the DD can attack the sub blocking in 104. and you might get the CV to SZ 110, but i can now invade from the other side in SZ 109!!

You needed an extra ship!

muhahahaha!!

now for the odds with 3 AP. 65.5% if the aa gun does not kill a plane, if it does then i go down to 42%.

Remember what I’m doing is to only make you stop from attacking the Italian fleet. This is my goal.

Benefits of V5 plan:

1)UK cant bring either 109 DD or 91 DD or the carrier from Gibraltar to kill my main fleet

2. UK stays stuck with 11 infantry and planes.

3. I stopped the attack on Italy. Possibly

4. UK must now commit 4 planes to defend UK and use the 2 DD’s just to kill the SS in 104 and possibly if your SZ 109 DD survives you can try for one sub in SZ 111.

5. Naval block in SZ 110 is no longer possible because planes cant sink the subs and your tactical bomber cant reach.

You like this new plan?

Regarding Sealion success rate:
65.6 % if AA gun hits

40.5 % if it does not

I went back to this purchase plan because in the long run it protects the German Baltic fleet. Most people understand the important CV buy for Germany in this regard.

He can still crash his 3 fighters into my main fleet: odds: 4/3/2/4/4 vs. 3/3  I don’t think so.

If i bought instead 1 DD and another AP ( giving me 4 total AP) sealion is guaranteed, but he will crash his 3 fighters into my BB, CA, and DD and i might lose all my transports

74.8 % i win this, but if the other 25% pops up i lose 4 transports and my fleet for 3 fighters.

And also i must win the other battles and not lose any planes. If i do this UK falls. thats the thing in a nutshell.

[calvinhobbesliker]

In Z109, there’s a 51% chance you lose your ftr

[SgtBlitz]

Meh, maybe one could block SZ 110 with the BB and 2 subs instead.  Yeah, that’s still not going to hold against 3 planes and a dd, if they’re suicidal.

I wonder if Germany on NCM sends the BB to SZ 104 along with a sub to block and sends the CA to SZ 110 along with a leftover sub or two.  Or, how about they send both BB, subs, and CA to SZ 104?  How would that work?  Or, is it more along the lines of as long as the UK player puts in a unit to fight at each blocking SZ, no matter how remote a chance there is for the attacker’s CV on its NCM to get through to the landing plane’s SZ, they can still legally put a fighter into SZ 113 with the intention of it landing on SZ 110?

Meh, I guess it could save Italy from the Taranto raid.

[SgtBlitz]

Unfortunately, IL, subs cannot block like they did in Revised and Classic.  Bummer.  :-(

This one guy who started an Axis win thread stated that he pulled Sealion off on G2 with 4 transports put into SZ 113.  I’m guessing the British player didn’t know that the CV could get a plane over there on it NCM.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SgtBlitz:

Meh, maybe one could block SZ 110 with the BB and 2 subs instead.  Yeah, that’s still not going to hold against 3 planes and a dd, if they’re suicidal.

I wonder if Germany on NCM sends the BB to SZ 104 along with a sub to block and sends the CA to SZ 110 along with a leftover sub or two.  Or, how about they send both BB, subs, and CA to SZ 104?  How would that work?  Or, is it more along the lines of as long as the UK player puts in a unit to fight at each blocking SZ, no matter how remote a chance there is for the attacker’s CV on its NCM to get through to the landing plane’s SZ, they can still legally put a fighter into SZ 113 with the intention of it landing on SZ 110?

Meh, I guess it could save Italy from the Taranto raid.

Yeah, UK can just attack each blocking Sea Zone and then kill the transports in Z113. The DD hits Z104, a ftr hits Z110, another ftr hits Z113. 28 ipcs for 28 ipcs. If the ftr vs Z109 DD leves that DD alive, it can his one zone instead of a ftr, and so can the Canadian DD if it survives

[Imperious Leader]

Germany can block with the CA in 104.

The CV cant bring the planes to attack my main fleet.

The CV can only now block in SZ 110, but alas i can swing into SZ 109 and invade from that side because uk lost the DD’s attacking my CA and SS.

Either way i stopped the Italian attack and also kill the rest of the British ships.

That was my only goal.

I am going back to original plan. 1 CV and 2 AP build.

Attack SZ 106 with 1 sub ( UK has 1 DD) 2 vs. 2. 40.6% to 39.5%

Attack SZ 109 1 fighter vs. 1 DD 3 vs. 2. 48.9% to 26% ( both die at 25.1%)

Attack SZ 110 2 subs, 1 tactical, 1 fighter, 1 bomber vs. 1 BB, 1 DD ( should win)
99.5%

Attack SZ 111 2 subs, 1 tactical, 1 Fighter, vs. 1 BB, 1 CA ( should win)
85.7%

Attack SZ 112 1 BB, 1 SS, 1 tactical, 1 Fighter vs 2 CA ( should win hit on BB)
99%

One CA blocks at SZ 104

Place all builds and 2 fighters on the CV in 112 with 3 AP. Now you got 1 BB, 1 CV and 2 fighters against 3 fighters attacking. I win in that.
97% of the time.

Sealion can proceed unopposed.

Remember the point of these posts is to find the solution to prevent UK from attacking Italian fleet on UK1. I think this is it. Finally.

[SgtBlitz]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@SgtBlitz:

Meh, maybe one could block SZ 110 with the BB and 2 subs instead.  Yeah, that’s still not going to hold against 3 planes and a dd, if they’re suicidal.

I wonder if Germany on NCM sends the BB to SZ 104 along with a sub to block and sends the CA to SZ 110 along with a leftover sub or two.  Or, how about they send both BB, subs, and CA to SZ 104?  How would that work?  Or, is it more along the lines of as long as the UK player puts in a unit to fight at each blocking SZ, no matter how remote a chance there is for the attacker’s CV on its NCM to get through to the landing plane’s SZ, they can still legally put a fighter into SZ 113 with the intention of it landing on SZ 110?

Meh, I guess it could save Italy from the Taranto raid.

Yeah, UK can just attack each blocking Sea Zone and then kill the transports in Z113. The DD hits Z104, a ftr hits Z110, another ftr hits Z113. 28 ipcs for 28 ipcs. If the ftr vs Z109 DD leves that DD alive, it can his one zone instead of a ftr, and so can the Canadian DD if it survives

Well, at least we’re getting to equal numbers of IPCs being lost here.  Looks like the only way of realistically pulling Sealion off on G2 is with the 1 CV 2 TRN buy, but with only 6 land units going in against 11 + 3 planes, it doesn’t look good.  Pretty much only way of pulling it off is to strafe the UK G1 to get rid of its airforce with enormous casaulties, then its 6 land units + a few surviving planes vs. 9 inf and 1 TAC.  Still close odds.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SgtBlitz:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@SgtBlitz:

Meh, maybe one could block SZ 110 with the BB and 2 subs instead.  Yeah, that’s still not going to hold against 3 planes and a dd, if they’re suicidal.

I wonder if Germany on NCM sends the BB to SZ 104 along with a sub to block and sends the CA to SZ 110 along with a leftover sub or two.  Or, how about they send both BB, subs, and CA to SZ 104?  How would that work?  Or, is it more along the lines of as long as the UK player puts in a unit to fight at each blocking SZ, no matter how remote a chance there is for the attacker’s CV on its NCM to get through to the landing plane’s SZ, they can still legally put a fighter into SZ 113 with the intention of it landing on SZ 110?

Meh, I guess it could save Italy from the Taranto raid.

Yeah, UK can just attack each blocking Sea Zone and then kill the transports in Z113. The DD hits Z104, a ftr hits Z110, another ftr hits Z113. 28 ipcs for 28 ipcs. If the ftr vs Z109 DD leves that DD alive, it can his one zone instead of a ftr, and so can the Canadian DD if it survives

Well, at least we’re getting to equal numbers of IPCs being lost here.  Looks like the only way of realistically pulling Sealion off on G2 is with the 1 CV 2 TRN buy, but with only 6 land units going in against 11 + 3 planes, it doesn’t look good.  Pretty much only way of pulling it off is to strafe the UK G1 to get rid of its airforce with enormous casaulties, then its 6 land units + a few surviving planes vs. 9 inf and 1 TAC.  Still close odds.

If you attack the UK itself with 6 or 7 planes, at least 1 British BB will survive, and it can attack the German fleet in Z112 along with 3 ftrs, and a tac, DD, and CV if they’re needed

[Imperious Leader]

Pretty much only way of pulling it off is to strafe the UK G1 to get rid of its air force with enormous casualties, then its 6 land units + a few surviving planes vs. 9 inf and 1 TAC.  Still close odds.

HUH??

you might have something in that. one sec looking…

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

Pretty much only way of pulling it off is to strafe the UK G1 to get rid of its air force with enormous casualties, then its 6 land units + a few surviving planes vs. 9 inf and 1 TAC.  Still close odds.

HUH??

you might have something in that. one sec looking…

He means Germany sends 7 planes to attack England. ^ will survive, and against 2 inf and 3 ftr, will salvage 2 planes

[oztea]

The 104 block with a cruiser is a pretty big deal IL

I cant seem to counter it yet……

Other than the fact that the German fleet is now only a likeley damaged battleship, carrier and 2 planes

You might be able to attack the German Cruiser in 104 with a destroyer from canbada if it surivived with the gibraltar one, to use the Tacbomber on the german fleet

13 attacking 14, but the 14 has an extra hit to take on the carrier

[Imperious Leader]

The 104 block with a cruiser is a pretty big deal IL

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: yes finally i got a defence!!

I cant seem to counter it yet……

Other than the fact that the German fleet is now only a likely damaged battleship, carrier and 2 planes

UK cant sink it with the 3 fighters… main point. I hope :-D

You might be able to attack the German Cruiser in 104 with a destroyer from Canada if it survived with the Gibraltar one, to use the Tacbomber on the german fleet

Yes but know this: the CV takes 2 hits and my planes can land and still attack. This give me BB, CV and 2 fighters 5 hit fleet against 4 planes…

4/2/4/4 vs 3/3/3/4  i still think i win that, and keep a BB and he loses his planes in the attempt. Plus he still has to deal with my CA vs his last DD 2 against a 3? no way.

He might forget the CA and i got one SB back. The key is this forces the exchange and saves Italy from ruin. Thats all im trying to do. By hook or crook.

[SgtBlitz]

@Imperious:

Pretty much only way of pulling it off is to strafe the UK G1 to get rid of its air force with enormous casualties, then its 6 land units + a few surviving planes vs. 9 inf and 1 TAC.  Still close odds.

HUH??

you might have something in that. one sec looking…

Beh, I almost posted something really stupid just now, such as leaving the entire German fleet in SZ 113 so the UK carrier can’t strafe the new transports.  Except that it’s assured the UK is going to block a G2 Sealion with something if SZ 112 is left abandoned… real smart there.

The massive air attack G1 should be able to take out the UK air force with even dice, but will be left with squat planes for the invasion round on G2 (hopefully two).  Perhaps if we try mixing up the CA block in SZ 104 (kill the DD/BB in SZ 110 with 2 subs 1 FIG) with the London blitz, the most the UK can counterattack with is the CA/BB in SZ 111 plus the TAC from the CV against SZ 112’s 1 BB (prob dmged), 1 SS, 1 CV and 2 FIGs (or Tacs depending on what survived from England).  Germany will have the advantage (and 3 TRNS in range).

The UK could fall back to SZ 110 with possibly 1 DD, 1 CV, 1 CA, 1 BB blocking the Channel and 9 INF and 1 TAC on England at the end of UK1.  G2 should have several subs bordering the UK available for the attack on the fleet, including the newly repaired BB.  If the Germans can get at least 3 planes to the UK along with the 3 ARM/3 INF on the boats they should have an even shot.

Hell, I even looked at building a NB on Germany Round 1 but there’s not enough cash to build any more than 2 TRNS into SZ 114.