Cruisers and tac bombers new abilities

[LHoffman]

In my opinion, destroyers are already crap units and are only good as shield ships… absorbing hits. But for the fact that they are not at all useful offensively, I never buy them.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@LHoffman:

In my opinion, destroyers are already crap units and are only good as shield ships… absorbing hits. But for the fact that they are not at all useful offensively, I never buy them.

Except for subs, they are the most cost effective offensive naval unit. They are also the most cost effective naval unit on defense except a loaded carrier.

[LHoffman]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@LHoffman:

In my opinion, destroyers are already crap units and are only good as shield ships… absorbing hits. But for the fact that they are not at all useful offensively, I never buy them.

Except for subs, they are the most cost effective offensive naval unit. They are also the most cost effective naval unit on defense except a loaded carrier.

You mean cost effective as in least money for most hit points, or whatever term you use for that? That may be so, but they are utterly worthless except to help make your fleet unassailable by buying large numbers of them. They have no positive attacking qualities compared to other naval units (except subs-transp) and they cannot support naval landings. I prefer to buy for hitting power than die quantity… especially in this new game where carriers also take two hits to destroy… lots of carriers and BBs near a friendly naval base are hard to take out by themselves.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@LHoffman:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@LHoffman:

In my opinion, destroyers are already crap units and are only good as shield ships… absorbing hits. But for the fact that they are not at all useful offensively, I never buy them.

Except for subs, they are the most cost effective offensive naval unit. They are also the most cost effective naval unit on defense except a loaded carrier.

You mean cost effective as in least money for most hit points, or whatever term you use for that? That may be so, but they are utterly worthless except to help make your fleet unassailable by buying large numbers of them. They have no positive attacking qualities compared to other naval units (except subs-transp) and they cannot support naval landings. I prefer to buy for hitting power than die quantity… especially in this new game where carriers also take two hits to destroy… lots of carriers and BBs near a friendly naval base are hard to take out by themselves.

You can buy 2 BB or 5 DD. 5 DD have a 60% chance of winning.

[Imperious Leader]

You can buy 2 BB or 5 DD. 5 DD have a 60% chance of winning.

And 2 BB can hit and run and kill 2 DD and avoid any damage entirely. Each BB hit can cost you zero, while DD hits cost 8 per.

Of course getting the SB at 4 is pretty much an automatic hit too.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

You can buy 2 BB or 5 DD. 5 DD have a 60% chance of winning.

And 2 BB can hit and run and kill 2 DD and avoid any damage entirely. Each BB hit can cost you zero, while DD hits cost 8 per.

Of course getting the SB at 4 is pretty much an automatic hit too.

Assuming you’re one space away from naval base and the DD’s don’t attack you first.

[Imperious Leader]

BB’s usually are protected with other ships, so in combat usually the guy with BB will get some free hits that wont cost him.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Imperious:

BB’s usually are protected with other ships, so in combat usually the guy with BB will get some free hits that wont cost him.

So are DD’s.

[miragehunter]

I love all this discussion on the cruisers.  I would also agree on the historically accurate changes for the cruisers as well.  Being that cruisers could go 3 spaces at all times (so does that mean that cruisers would also gain the extra movement space from a NB?)  Plus I think that one round of AA fire is appropriate as well.  I pose a question to Kreighund.  Was this discussed as well in the development phase of the game?  Btw thanks for all your hard work that you’ve put in the game and for answering your questions.  I can’t wait to get my copy at the store. :)  Good gaming to all!

[LHoffman]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@Imperious:

BB’s usually are protected with other ships, so in combat usually the guy with BB will get some free hits that wont cost him.

So are DD’s.

Usually ALL ships are in fleets with others… but nobody buys a Battleship to protect destroyers… it is the other way around. If you have a decent fleet already and you are looking for some advanced firepower, I’d buy Battleships or Carriers over cruisers and Destroyers… they can take free hits AND they are more versatile in combat capabilities. I may be more dissuaded from attacking 1 Battleship and a loaded carrier than attacking 6 or 7 Destroyers… depending on my situation.

[GrizzlyMan]

I really like the idea of a first-round AA shot for cruisers. With the new destroyer abilities, I naver buy cruisers except for the occasional amphibious landing. I think adding the AA shot will make a cruiser a necessary addition to any mixed fleet.

I’m not sure how to improve the Tac Bomber, though. For only one more IPC than a fighter you loose a defense point and gain the possibility of having an extra attack point (if there’s an escort fighter or a tank). I’m afraid that the first-round targeting ability will tip the scale in the other direction and makes Tacs too powerful. Are there any other thoughts on other advantages? Or do you think that they’re balanced already?

[Imperious Leader]

Tactical bombers should have their original idea restored:

in land battles in the first round they can select land target
at sea in the first round they can select their own naval target

no other changes except allowing them to attack SBR at 50% effective rounded down.

5 becomes 2
3 becomes 1

[GrizzlyMan]

The problem with allowing Tacs to select their target is that it makes them better than SBRs. An 11 IPC unit that (when coupled with a tank or fighter) selects its targets on a roll of 4 or less. That’s less expensive for a unit that’s better than the SBR in all categories except range.

[Holden]

Walked into a local comic store on a lark and they had a copy sitting on the shelf. The clerk mused that I was buying the only copy they had recieved!

[Imperious Leader]

The problem with allowing Tacs to select their target is that it makes them better than SBRs. An 11 IPC unit that (when coupled with a tank or fighter) selects its targets on a roll of 4 or less. That’s less expensive for a unit that’s better than the SBR in all categories except range.

Remove the OOB rule of Tactical bomber paired with fighter at 4. I was not clear before. The rules i posted were the replacement rules

These are at 3. But with a tank they raise the tank to 4 if paired at 1:1 basis

tactical bombers raise tanks
Artillery raise Inf and Mech
First round only tac chooses land unit or naval unit it hits

[Tavenier]

In our house rules we let TAC bombers choose a target at -1 on the dice roll. He can chose to do so.

Cruisers defending can force their hit on an opponents aircraft (instead of, say, a hit on a battleship).