After more playtesting I find this:
Naval port rules as outlined are perfect
Air base rules have issue which is this: Player with weak air forces will not use the air base because the stronger air forces can create kill squadrons. They will opt out of the defensive advantage of being able to scramble to adjacent territories and instead use the other units to help them defend from unilateral attacks.
The solution is this-
AS the other poster pointed out rightfully the air base should be a requirement to use fighters as offensive pieces in the combat move, but not on defense.
Second, this form of air attacks ( against air bases from planes only) will use the same combat values as SBR escort/ interception rules.
All Attacking bombers at 3, Fighters and Tactical Bombers are at 1, all Defending planes ( of any type) are at 2.
So again the air base allows this:
Is this good?
Does the cost of these need to drop to say 8 IPC?
@Imperious:
Does the cost of these need to drop to say 8 IPC?
I was thinking 5 ipc so they are not cost prohibitive, we want players to build and use airbases right? But, you need to spend an extra 5 ipcs to upgrade them to accept bombers. This would work especially well on pacific islands.
AAGGGHHHH!! screwed up that post, dont feel like rewriting, you get the idea sorry made my post look like your quote.
OK air base =5, naval base = 10? or 8?, or 12?
Need to playtest.
Naval probably need 10, or perhaps 6 for AB and 12 for NB?
do you agree with 5 ipc upgrade of AB to accept bombers?
I don’t see the realism in having an AB for fighters and paying extra to get bombers. It seems like splitting hairs. Rather one price for AB and another for NB
6 and 12 seem decent.
So let me get this straight you nee an airbase to land aircraft. :? :? Plus don’t you think that naval bases make it hard too attack coastlines. I mean attacking Japan would be impossible.
So let me get this straight you nee an airbase to land aircraft. :? :? Plus don’t you think that naval bases make it hard too attack coastlines. I mean attacking Japan would be impossible.
I think this means if you attacked Japan and Japan had ships in port those ships would not be able to defend with ground troops and aircraft. thats the trade off for the protection of a port, while in port ships cant respond to an immediate threat.
So let me get this straight you nee an airbase to land aircraft. huh huh Plus don’t you think that naval bases make it hard too attack coastlines. I mean attacking Japan would be impossible.
No you need an AB to make SBR or any combat attacks. The planes always defend even if they are not in an AB, and defend alone in an AB.
Naval bases have no effect on invasions of attached land territory. The option is with the naval defending: they can defend or they can just stay in port. That is the flexibility in being in port. Also, if the land territory is taken they become ‘dislodged’ and placed in the sea zone at the end of the turn. On their own turn they can move out or attack.
I already used the concept of ports stopping invasions and that didn’t work. It took too long to remove the ships.
Ok, if you dont like the upgrade for ABs to accept bombers. how about you require an AB to land a bomber?You already require one for SBRs, i dont think bombers should be able to land anywhere on the board that you own.
OK the requirement that all planes that want to perform a combat or SBR or airborne drop must start from AB. Lets just keep that.
To require them to always remain in AB is too limiting. They could not now even hope to move from continent to continent in NCM because you need a chain of AB. That is too limiting. I say just for purposes of combat movement you are required to launch from an AB. you can still land on a non-AB territory.
I already protected ports and some cash poor nations can’t be undermined by the AB requirement for all planes all the time.
Its like adding too much spice and ruining the flavor.
Just to clarify, i didnt say all planes need an AB to land, just bombers. With the amount of starting ABs and buying a few to connect to dots it might not be a bad idea. will leave it your way for now and will playtest in future.
How about you just use your 1939 paratroopers marines rules. Plus how much will tach bomders and bombers defend at during an air raid
How about you just use your 1939 paratroopers marines rules.
Yes that is the idea. You pay 1 IPC per paratrooper and they fight at 2. Its just how the bomber works is the new idea. It must fly from AB if its doing a SBR , Airborne drop, or combat move.
Plus how much will tach bomders and bombers defend at during an air raid
- If they go under attack the AA gun defends first and all planes defend at 2, while attacking bombers attack at 3, and other planes attack at 1. attacks in this manner are only one round.
Thats the original idea:
the new concept is more KISS:
all defending planes at 2
attacking fighters at 1
attacking tactical bombers at 2
attacking bombers at 3
all for one round and AA guns fire preemptively.
Special rules for Airbases:
Air Raid attack procedure:
A) AA guns fire preemptively if located in territory under attack.
B) Attacking fighters at 1, Tactical bombers at 2 and Bombers at 3
C) Defending planes all fire at 2
D) Combat is for one round only
Optional Rules:
Surprise Attacks for either naval port or air base:
Surprise attack is possible if you don’t have radar technology
Roll 1-3: Attacking planes get preemptive fire first round (survivors of this attack still get to fire back). Planes defend at 2 and naval defends at normal values.
Roll 4-6: Has no effect
Special rules for Naval Ports:
I think both bomber types should use an airbase.
Strat move rule I cooked up is unlimited move within friendly territory at a cost of 1 IPC per unit. With the number of units limited to 3 per industrial complex controlled. No sea moves.
How about surprize air attack on Naval Base? Ships docked in port, Pearl type situation. all fighters attack at 2 die @4 for one round after AAfire.
How about surprise air attack on Naval Base? Ships docked in port, Pearl type situation. all fighters attack at 2 die @4 for one round after AAfire.
Thats under the optional rule. It applies to both installations. But the attack values are the same 1,2,3 for attacker depending on plane type and normal naval values on defense and defending planes at 2.
Strat move rule I cooked up is unlimited move within friendly territory at a cost of 1 IPC per unit. With the number of units limited to 3 per industrial complex controlled. No sea moves.
Its a bit much. If Japan and Germany link the japanese army can get to say france from french indo china in one move. It also makes it too easy to kill russia.
This idea is only compensation for the extra land spaces and sea zones, while the units have the same movement points. That is only why the rule exists… to fix that so the game does not take forever to play.
Please clarify,
ALL aircraft cannot proform any kind of attack in combat move without it comming from an AB.
Fighters can only use a total of 2 moves to enter into combat over land territories but still have 2 moves left to land after combat is resolved.
Fighters can land in any friendy land territory per OOB but can only defend that territory if attcked and also cannot scramble without AB.
All of the above applies to Bombers except Bombers can move 3 territories over land into combat.
