Most over-rated WWII Leader

[Lazarus]

@Col.:

You posted what you considered to be their opinion,

No.
I posted the actual words. I did not adjust or paraphrase anything.
Your charge is baseless.

@Col.:

then turned there words to fit your cause

Simply untrue. I let he words speak for themselves.
Show me how the following is turned:

In a reference to the Allied commanders, Rundstedt said:
"Montgomery and Patton were the two best that I met

or better still explain how you read it.
Maybe you see something I missed?

[Col. Ty Webb]

“The puzzle for me is the complete inability of many to accept dissent from the herd mindset.”

No, not trying to convert anyone at all to your way of thinking. Once again doing a complete flip flop from one post to the next.

Please show me in that passage where “two best I met” implied any type of equality. See, you are adding your own opinion to their words. That’s like you asking me who were the two best basketball players I’ve ever met, me responding “Michael Jordan and Fred Smith,” and you assuming that they are both equal because I said they were the two best.

The two best teams in the NFL met in the Super Bowl every year, but sometimes those games aren’t all that close.

[Lazarus]

The quote is short and to the point.
Your have � deeply ingrained aversion to anything that puts Monty in a positive light � that drives you to ever more ridiculous claims � about ‘hidden meanings’ or unspoken codicils. � Semantics is not your forte so I advise you not to continue down this path.
The German Generals you put so much store in when they praise Patton are derided for expressing the same view of Monty, why?

Warning:
Edited to correct spelling mistakes. Conspiracy theorists please accept my apology if you have posted a reply in the last minute.

[Guest]

@Lazarus:

The German Generals you put so much store in when they praise Patton are derided for expressing the same view of Monty, why?

The correct form of the attempted sentence is:
Why do you put so much faith in the German generals when they praise Patton, yet you deride them when they express the same view of Monty?

There is to be NO TOLERANCE for incorrect use of the English language on AA.org.

EDIT: apology accepted.

[Gargantua]

@Lazarus:

@Gargantua:

Please specify some incidents.

I can think of several, but they are in the 20 to TOPS 100 people range.

Millions of POW’s were never shot.

See this link

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8034

Dr. Lazarus,

By your own link, the majority of crimes listed are well under the 1000 casualty mark,  and not the “Millions” mark you presented.

As well,  the bulk of them are considered to be soviet progpoganda,  fabricated to support the war effort.

The Finns were accussed of the same crimes, supposedly making slaves of people, and random executions etc, none of which seemed to be based on real incidents.

Have you found anymore information on these millions of deaths you are reporting?

[KurtGodel7]

In Operation Barbarossa, Germany experienced 200,000 killed or missing; as compared to 700,000 Soviet soldiers killed, and 3.4 million captured. In addition, Germany’s allies experienced 220,000 killed, wounded, or missing. Assuming the ratio of killed:wounded was about the same for Germany’s allies as it was for Germany, that implies that Germany’s allies lost about 55,000 men in Barbarossa. Total Axis losses for the operation were probably around 255,000 killed or missing, compared to 4.1 million Soviet soldiers killed or captured. That’s a better than 15:1 exchange ratio. (Though the ratio of wounded was only 2:1 in Germany’s favor.)

But once again I find myself drifting OT in an attempt to address the confusion Lazarus is attempting to sow. Speaking of which, the video Clyde posted was funny, and spot-on! :)

To return to the subject of most overrated leader, another person who deserves consideration is Mussolini for his role as commander-in-chief of the Italian armed forces. Institutionally, Italy was extremely unprepared for war–which is odd, considering Mussolini’s dreams of a revived Roman Empire.

Mussolini had referred to the Munich meetings as his greatest moment. At that time, Germany and Italy were not yet allies; and it was Germany that was the main beneficiary of the meetings. However, Mussolini spoke French, English, and German, and was therefore able to become the center of attention, especially as people began talking more hurriedly. He seemed more interested in building up his own ego than in exercising the discipline necessary to turn Italy into a real military power. His personality seems similar to Goering’s, in fact.

I realize Mussolini isn’t highly rated as a commander-in-chief to begin with. But is the assessment of him harsh enough?

[Lazarus]

@Gargantua:

The Finns were accussed of the same crimes, supposedly making slaves of people, and random executions etc, none of which seemed to be based on real incidents.

You could not have picked a worse example.
The Finish executions are well documented
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142778&hilit=

and for Finnish Concentration Camps
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=176121&hilit=

The disadvantage is that the victims were Soviet and thus ( in your eyes) liars about everything.
The truth is the Finish War Crimes are well documented
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=185050&hilit=

[newpaintbrush]

@KurtGodel7:

I realize Mussolini isn’t highly rated as a commander-in-chief to begin with. But is the assessment of him harsh enough?

In order to be over-rated, you need to be on the rating scale to begin with.

[Clyde85]

@Lazarus:

I assure you Lazurus did know.
However Lazarus was unable to see what bearing it had on Goering’s performance in WW2.
Perhaps you could establish the link so Lazarus can see his error?

Dear Cousin,
We could use a torch as bring as the sun and show you a mirror as reflective as a placid lake and still you would not see the errors of your ways. You display the same stubborn hubris that lead us to slaughter on the river Slaney! I’m afraid you leave me no other choice but to once again ignore you completely if we are to salvage any sort of meaningful conversation out of this.

I encourage the rest of you to do the same, to not play into his game, and do not lower yourself down to his level, continue the actually , meaningful, conversation some of us are maintaining and ignore the Trolls poo flinging.

[trackmagic]

This thread delivers!

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1014&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=pv4bjtPWHwFwpM:&imgrefurl=http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/&docid=2RvsTzIl1STTVM&imgurl=http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/1/normal_thisthreaddelivers1rk5.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=dZ6tT6_YJqqsiAKRwfGKBA&zoom=1

[Deaths Head 420]

for those that won’t use the link  :roll:

[trackmagic]

Thanks, I was trying to figure out how to post pictures (seems like it should not be that hard) I gave up and posted a link.

[Deaths Head 420]

to post a pic use [IMG]the pic location here and end it with [/IMG*] without the asterick

[strategic planner]

FDR was the most overrated. He sent 300ish soviets who fought in a nazi uniform to save ussr from the soviets BACK to Stalin and certain death. He was friendly with “Uncle Joe” and conceded way too much. I may would have been a proponent of continuing the war to Moscow to obliterate Stalin after 1945, so communism would be nothing but a fad and dead.

[CWO Marc]

@strategic:

I may would have been a proponent of continuing the war to Moscow to obliterate Stalin after 1945, so communism would be nothing but a fad and dead.

If I remember correctly, the USSR had something like 300 divisions in Eastern Europe at the time of the Potsdam Conference – a rather large figure compared to what the Anglo-Americans had in Western Europe.  I doubt the Americans and the British could have beaten those kinds of numbers.  I also don’t imagine that a radical move like expending one of America’s rare and priceless A-bombs on Moscow would have done anything other than get those 300 veteran Soviet divisions (who had just helped whip the Wehrmacht) really, really angry at them.  The US and the UK being democracies, they would have also found it a trifle hard to convince their war-weary voters and servicemen to start a whole new war against the country which had just helped them defeat Nazi Germany, and which was getting ready to help them finish off militarist Japan.

At any rate, if you exclude Cuba and China and North Korea, Communism today is in fact pretty much a dying fad…espcially when you consider the amount of free-market capitalism with which China has been flirting for the past decade or so.