Possible new rule book, and/or boxes with correct stuff?

[Viracocha]

@moompix:

The Errata for the Anniversary edition is bigger. Who’s demanding updated rule books for that?

The power of a little extra tartar sauce is amazing.

Yeah, a little.  But the errors (IMHO) are of a ‘lesser’ nature (we don’t use Fighter Interceptors = the math shows it isn’t worth the risk - makes sb’s pointless, and we keep the straits open so no biggy there, so this is arguable from others I suppose). And as another said, AA50 was just better quality all-around.

[Hobbes]

@Craig:

I am just talking about my perception of what is happening here.  I believe that we do a good job with our end of the process.

Again, we are not perfect, but we aren’t the problem here, IMHO.

@Craig:

I am just talking about my perception of what is happening here.  I believe that we do a good job with our end of the process.

Again, we are not perfect, but we aren’t the problem here, IMHO.

And all of you did a fine good job. :)

One way to look at all the criticism regarding the map/typos/etc. is that if the game was mediocre or even just good most people wouldn’t bother complaining so much about details but would complain about the game in general. AAP40 is my 6th A&A game and it is one of the best I’ve played so far.

[MaherC]

@Krieghund:

@Craig:

MaherC on January 25, 2010, 12:45:18 pm

Krieghund on January 22, 2010, 12:24:13 pm
Playtesters never test the final product.  Once it’s final, it’s a little too late for testing.  Once the game design is finalized, it’s up to the editors to make sure that nothing changes during the translation from prototype to final product.  There are many steps in which mistakes can be made.

Kreig you seem to be a decent guy, but I declare shenanigans on what you say here regarding the map itself.   Are you saying the map you played on had the lines for the sea zones correct?  That the names on the board were spelled correctly?   That the setup didn’t have misspellings?     How about the rule regarding IPC values for Maj ICs?  No one caught the issue in Australia?   Or the rule about IC’s on an island?  No one caught NZ?

I will let Krieghund answer these specific questions himself, but I will say that in working on AA50 and then AAE 40/AA40 Global, he is right in saying these issues (or the vast majority) are coming from the WotC side of the equation.

I am not saying that at all.  I cannot and will not comment on where in the process any particular error occurred.  My point was simply that there are many points in the process in which they may occur, and certain parts of the process may be beyond the control of any specific individual.  That being said, game design and production is a team effort, and we are all collectively responsible for the final product.  Anyone outside the process cannot possibly know which individual or individuals are to blame for any given error, and I’m not about to point fingers.

Again, to clarify.  Not attacking anyone, except WOTC.  Someone had said all the threads eventually reach the point where we bash WOTC.

I said that more eyes were needed on the game before it was released.  I asked if the map was “correct” in regards to sea zones before it went gold, because if you guys saw the same typos and map lines on your beta copies, then…you missed errors.

If you didn’t have these issues, If Palau was spelled correctly etc, and Sea Zone 5/6 touched the proper land borders and WOTC changed lines on the map for some reason, then they are deserving of our contempt.

I don’t want to drop another $90 on Europe without trying at the least to get WOTC to take a look at the way they do things.

Look at the forum thread on getting extra pieces.  How many people have posted that they are getting cut and paste replies with no sign of people actually reading their email?  I had this, I called them (literally) on it, and boom.  I’m supposedly getting more Tac Bombers.  We’ll see.

Calling them chimps on the forum does nothing, actually take the 6 minutes and CALL THEM.    Even if you think you aren’t getting anything across, I’m sure they have to log calls, and when they see the complaints about insufficient pieces they might do the math and see that including more plastic is more cost efficient than paying 10 people $10.60 and hour to answer complaint calls.  Ever have a problem with a cell phone company?  Keep calling in.  They think like this.  I get a new phone from Verizon YEARLY because I call and complain when mine breaks 3 weeks after the warranty runs out.  Keep calling.  They see you are tying up a Rep. multiple times a week, they write off a new phone for you.  Just to make you go away.

[Bube]

I have called WOTC reguarding all the errors and such.  I was told “If you have 6 Tac Bombers that is the number that was shipped with the game and were sticking by that number.”

Maybe WOTC thinks Customer Service is the customer servicing their needs ie lining their pockets.

[MaherC]

I’m hoping that if enough people complain they won’t make the same mistake w/Europe, or we’re all going to be back here in 4 months crying about Stukas.

Maybe that’s my stupid faith in humanity and the American worker…

[Stoney229]

@Xayd74:

In my request to WOTC, I asked for two new box lid stickers. Didnt really need the boxes.

You could scan the box tops and print your own stickers… just a thought.

[MaherC]

again, doing things on our own, homebrew to make up for their lack of quality control.

[Mino1124]

@MaherC:

I’m hoping that if enough people complain they won’t make the same mistake w/Europe, or we’re all going to be back here in 4 months crying about Stukas.

Maybe that’s my stupid faith in humanity and the American worker…

I agree. While I still hope to continue to keep calling and/or e-mailing, I do hope they at least learn for the next one.

[Imperious Leader]

Is Cal Moore still employed?

What happened to him? Did anybody have a ‘talk’ with him about the typos?

[Gargantua]

I have to give Krieghund an AMEN here.  He is one of the ONLY people involved in the game creation, who is reaching out to fans, to try and help them out, and support a product that was at some point improperly managed and sent to consumers.  Atleast HE is standing by HIS contribution to the product.

As for people who whine about the 6 tac bombers, You guys don’t have it bad at all.

After a month and a half I still can’t even play the game.  I opened my box to find 2 maps of China :S  I called, they shipped, then I called back and they said they screwed up the address, and they shipped it again.  But… who knows.

I’d bitch about my 6 tac bombers though too I suppose, if I had a board to put them on. I guess the end reality is mistakes happen.

[Guest]

Maybe WOTC should have more playtesters who don’t know the rules, that way when they try to understand their screwed up rulebook they can ask WOTC all the same questions before the game is released.

[MaherC]

@gargantua:  that’s why I buy from my local game shop.  return much?

I wouldn’t say we are whining.  I think we are trying to get WOTC to put out a better product.  You know, so things like that happened to you won’t happen again.  I would think that you would be all for a little WOTC complaining to get them to put out a quality game.  Hopefully you get your board, I hope that you are calling them daily asking for tracking numbers and the like.  Again, anyone who has purchased anything from newegg.com should know the level of cust serv that can happen out there, and they are an internet reseller, not a manufacturer like WOTC.

I think that there are many out there who slurp some of the members of this community, and don’t take the time to think for themselves.  There are people out there who can’t read the rulebook, or if they did, they missed major points of the game, yet they get on here and jump up and down and shout how this game is balanced because there’s no way Larry or Kreig would have let WOTC put out something so uneven…

And yet now i’m reading posts that ask if they can use Kamikazes on J1.  People don’t know when or how the US enters the war.

It is painfully obvious that WOTC has little in the way of quality control.  All I’m asking for is that we keep complaining, squeaky wheel gets the grease.  They don’t like to hear it?  Good.  I don’t know about you guys, but I spent a lot of $$ on this game to use as a source of repeatable entertainment.  Times suck, board game night is up all across the US.  Silver lining?  My friends are getting back into A&A.  But when the rules change weekly, or waffle from one way to the other and then back to the original form in the span of a week…it gets a little old.

The game feels rushed.  I was actually thrilled that Pac40 was coming out first, what with the lack of TV/MOVIE/attention paid to that side of ww2, but now I wish they had released Europe40 first (in June w/ DDay and such) and then follow on with Pac40 in December of this year.

Maybe the pushed it to cash in on the state of the economy?  Maybe it was the plan all along?  I don’t know.  Don’t care.  Either way, the game wasn’t final.  This is the equivalent to Microsoft Vista (which actually wasn’t that bad honestly) but it was pushed out early, and people complained and cried and they destroyed it in the media…and now we have Windows 7.  Hoping we can do the same to effect change on Europe40 and the Global setup.

Give some of us the rulebook early.  Open it up to more playtesters.  This isn’t Madden 11 we’re talking about here, you’re not going to see a torrent link on piratebay for the rulebook and map.  I mean really.

[Veqryn]

it feels rushed…. and it lacks polish… and it is missing things… and there are typos and a not very good rulebook… and the wrong battleboard…

but i have to say i do not think the game is unbalanced… or at least we can not tell yet…

i do think they need more playtesters in general for all their games,
but they did a good job with this one

now they just need better editors and publishers…

[lozmoid]

I wish Larry would take his great games to another company. I’ve had enough of COTC.  :-(

[Krieghund]

@Gargantua:

I have to give Krieghund an AMEN here.  He is one of the ONLY people involved in the game creation, who is reaching out to fans, to try and help them out, and support a product that was at some point improperly managed and sent to consumers.  Atleast HE is standing by HIS contribution to the product.

Thanks, but I’m just the “point man”.  Larry and WotC are behind this errata effort 100%, otherwise I wouldn’t be allowed to do it.