Tech Idea

[rockrobinoff]

I have an idea for a tech system that could be applied to Axis and Allies in some variant in the future, or perhaps applied to games today.

A power invests in tech as per normal, gets to use the tech straight away as in non tournament rules, and the techs have the same effects as described in whatever version you are playing.

However, when you have researched the tech, it becomes available to all powers in play for the price the originating power paid for it.

For instance, Germany buys two tech tokens and hits Radar on some turn. Russia goes next, and is allowed to just buy radar for 10 bucks and no die roll required. The same would apply to all other powers.

Such a system would allow for tech, but reduce the roll it plays because of the danger of the tech falling into enemy hands. An interesting element to weigh in a decision making process. Perhaps a superior game as a result.

[lozmoid]

Hey, that’s a nice idea. So if you spend, say, 15 IPCs on research over three turns and then succeed, all remaining powers would gain the said technology for 15 IPCs each, yes?

Or how about this: Research & Development is no longer random but incremental. All techs for each power in the game will be based somewhere on a scale from 1-10, with 10 representing that power having reached the tech listed. You can spend 5 IPCs per turn to increase as many techs as you wish by One level each. For example, Germany may begin the game with the Rockets tech at level 8. She could spend 10 IPCs over her first two turns to gain the tech. United Kingdom would perhaps be closer to gaining Radar than the other powers. Japan and Germany may have higher levels of Super Submarines. UK and US may be closer to getting Heavy Bombers. What about that?

I will see if I can come up with rough stats to begin with…

[rockrobinoff]

@Lozmoid:

Hey, that’s a nice idea. So if you spend, say, 15 IPCs on research over three turns and then succeed, all remaining powers would gain the said technology for 15 IPCs each, yes?

yes

Or how about this: Research & Development is no longer random but incremental. All techs for each power in the game will be based somewhere on a scale from 1-10, with 10 representing that power having reached the tech listed. You can spend 5 IPCs per turn to increase as many techs as you wish by One level each. For example, Germany may begin the game with the Rockets tech at level 8. She could spend 10 IPCs over her first two turns to gain the tech. United Kingdom would perhaps be closer to gaining Radar than the other powers. Japan and Germany may have higher levels of Super Submarines. UK and US may be closer to getting Heavy Bombers. What about that?

I will see if I can come up with rough stats to begin with…

Sounds plausible enough - though it is getting a bit subjective when we start deciding how close a power should be to certain techs. Also, while it would be perfectly normal to have a game the way you described it, what would be the advantage in it, over say, the way tech works now?

[zooooma]

I believe the World at War expansion by Xeno Games had a similar rule for tech.  I’m not sure about the price, but I do think it took a turn or two before it became available on th open market.

[idk_iam_swiss]

I just make tech rolls ten dollors a die you roll ONE dice. and you get whatever tech is the number. example roll a five, get radar.

[lozmoid]

Also, while it would be perfectly normal to have a game the way you described it, what would be the advantage in it, over say, the way tech works now?

Well, I suppose my line of thinking here was to do away with the random factor. By making the techs incremental, it means that as long as a power continually invests in a given tech, it will obtain it eventually. The limitation is that you could only invest in each tech once per turn. Again, it would be totally optional. And also, it could be more historically accurate, as opposed to any power being able to gain any tech (as it is at the moment).

[axis_roll]

@rockrobinoff:

I have an idea for a tech system that could be applied to Axis and Allies in some variant in the future, or perhaps applied to games today.

A power invests in tech as per normal, gets to use the tech straight away as in non tournament rules, and the techs have the same effects as described in whatever version you are playing.

However, when you have researched the tech, it becomes available to all powers in play for the price the originating power paid for it.

For instance, Germany buys two tech tokens and hits Radar on some turn. Russia goes next, and is allowed to just buy radar for 10 bucks and no die roll required. The same would apply to all other powers.

Such a system would allow for tech, but reduce the roll it plays because of the danger of the tech falling into enemy hands. An interesting element to weigh in a decision making process. Perhaps a superior game as a result.

This is a pretty cool idea.  It definitely reduces the randomness, and is fairly easy to understand and implement.

I have a question, what if it takes Germany 3 turns to get radar after only spending $10.  Is that ‘delay’ passed on to everyone else?  I mean, why should Russia be able to get rockets right away at the same cost as Germany who had to wait three turns for the weapon?  How about an additional 1 IPC for each extra turn it took for the original researcher to get the tech.  So in my example, Russia could get rockets for $12.

I also think the tech acquired by the ‘enemy’ (Russia in your example) should only be active at the end of their turn BECAUSE it is guarenteed.  Russia could ROLL for a tech in a normal fashion if they wanted the tech to be instant (active on their turn).

[rockrobinoff]

@axis_roll:

This is a pretty cool idea.  It definitely reduces the randomness, and is fairly easy to understand and implement.

I have a question, what if it takes Germany 3 turns to get radar after only spending $10.  Is that ‘delay’ passed on to everyone else?  I mean, why should Russia be able to get rockets right away at the same cost as Germany who had to wait three turns for the weapon?  How about an additional 1 IPC for each extra turn it took for the original researcher to get the tech.  So in my example, Russia could get rockets for $12.

I also think the tech acquired by the ‘enemy’ (Russia in your example) should only be active at the end of their turn BECAUSE it is guarenteed.  Russia could ROLL for a tech in a normal fashion if they wanted the tech to be instant (active on their turn).

Sure, there are probably lots of little wrinkles to apply - a couple of extra ipcs here, an extra turn to wait there. Probably all dependent on what version you are playing. The important thing is the basic concept.

IMHO, such a concept would be best applied to a Revised style of tech research i.e. being able to roll for specific techs.

[axis_roll]

@rockrobinoff:

@axis_roll:

This is a pretty cool idea.  It definitely reduces the randomness, and is fairly easy to understand and implement.

I have a question, what if it takes Germany 3 turns to get radar after only spending $10.  Is that ‘delay’ passed on to everyone else?  I mean, why should Russia be able to get rockets right away at the same cost as Germany who had to wait three turns for the weapon?  How about an additional 1 IPC for each extra turn it took for the original researcher to get the tech.  So in my example, Russia could get rockets for $12.

I also think the tech acquired by the ‘enemy’ (Russia in your example) should only be active at the end of their turn BECAUSE it is guarenteed.  Russia could ROLL for a tech in a normal fashion if they wanted the tech to be instant (active on their turn).

Sure, there are probably lots of little wrinkles to apply - a couple of extra ipcs here, an extra turn to wait there. Probably all dependent on what version you are playing. The important thing is the basic concept.

Agreed!  I AM trying to work out the details… I want to try out this idea.

@rockrobinoff:

IMHO, such a concept would be best applied to a Revised style of tech research i.e. being able to roll for specific techs.

yes, I think that would be true… because the techs themselves are not equal, but at least their COSTS will be very close to being equal for all.

[Funcioneta]

Automatic things are bad in A&A, we have enough of them with 1 sub killing infinite trannies 100% of times. Just give +1 bonus to tech roll for each power that has the tech and rolls normally

Example: Japan and USA have LRA. UK wants that tech, so UK must roll 4 or more to get it

However, it only works for Revised system, not for AA50. For AA50, maybe the option would be aim for the tech with the bonuses but lose the money if fails. A thought option

[rockrobinoff]

@Funcioneta:

Automatic things are bad in A&A…

Well, this isn’t really automatic. It is just as random as the old tech, but when the tech is researched it applies to all powers and not just one.

[axis_roll]

When modifying the rules (a.k.a. creating your own house rules), very seldom, if ever, will all people like the rule(s).

This is especially true when it comes to rules surrounding tech.

Rockrobinoff’s idea serves his stated/intended purpose:  to diminish all that damn variability inherent in tech rolls…. therefor his ‘automatic’ concept works very well in the context of the other aspects of his tech house rule, IMHO.

[johnmk]

If the rule is set up as suggested in the first post, then I think I’d hesitate to buy tech. I’ll wait for somebody else to make all the sacrifice.

[rockrobinoff]

@johnmk:

If the rule is set up as suggested in the first post, then I think I’d hesitate to buy tech. I’ll wait for somebody else to make all the sacrifice.

There is the advantage in getting to use it straight away. Also, some techs are more useful to some powers.

[gamerman01]

@rockrobinoff:

@johnmk:

If the rule is set up as suggested in the first post, then I think I’d hesitate to buy tech. I’ll wait for somebody else to make all the sacrifice.

There is the advantage in getting to use it straight away. Also, some techs are more useful to some powers.

I agree with Johnmk.  Why don’t you just put different price tags on each tech and any country can buy them at any time?
I also think Lozmoid has a good idea with his historically accurate tech.  I’ve thought about this before, as well.  I think it would be a good idea if the price of each tech depended on which country you have.  Example: Radar costs 5 for UK, but 25 for Germany.  Heavy bombers cost 25 for USA, but 40 for Italy (normally precluding Italy from ever getting them)  To me, this makes more sense than any power being able to copy tech for the same price (original power had to take the chance, wait the time, sink the money in…)

[rockrobinoff]

@gamerman01:

I agree with Johnmk.  Why don’t you just put different price tags on each tech and any country can buy them at any time?

Well, you could have a game like that. There lots of plausible ways of adjusting A&A. The way I have suggested maintains the ‘unknown’ element with all the risk assessment/ cost benefit analysis type reasoning (a huge part of A&A type thinking - for those who think LL is silly anyway).

My way is not necessarily better than your suggestion or an improvement on the original system, though I have provided reason why it might be, and i think it an original enough suggestion as well.

[gamerman01]

@rockrobinoff:

Well, you could have a game like that. There lots of plausible ways of adjusting A&A. The way I have suggested maintains the ‘unknown’ element with all the risk assessment/ cost benefit analysis type reasoning (a huge part of A&A type thinking - for those who think LL is silly anyway).

My way is not necessarily better than your suggestion or an improvement on the original system, though I have provided reason why it might be, and i think it an original enough suggestion as well.

OK, sure.  My suggestion might not even be any good.  It was just off the top of my head.  Thanks for getting our creative juices flowing, and facilitating our brainstorming.

[lozmoid]

Okay, here’s what I’ve come up with so far. This chart is for the Rockets tech. I have attached a picture I made; let me know if it doesn’t work or you can’t see it.


It could be that these figures are way off and I’d really appreciate your input here in order to get them more historically accurate!  :-)

[rockrobinoff]

cant see the picture.

[lozmoid]

Thanks rockrobinoff - no I can’t see it either, for some reason.

I followed the guidelines in the help section re posting pictures, but I don’t think it has worked. Does anybody know how to do this? The file is a drawing I did on paint, saved as a .bmp file. Does it have to be a .jpg file?

Any help would be much appreciated!  :-)