Out of curiosity. If there were an air transport aircraft what do you think the value and stats should be?
Here is my idea.
IPC 10
Att 0
Def 0
Range 4 (maybe 6?)
Can carry 1 infantry or 1 artillery.
Can deliver 1 infantry for airborne assault.
i dont like units that dont kill things, you should just pay to do airborne attacks, then put a little chip under paratoopers to show they are equipped for an airborne assault
I revise my airborne rule:
These are new units costing 5 IPC, move 1
On first round they are 2-2 units (preemptive) and 1-2 units after that. You can only drop as many Airborne as you have bombers and follow all OOB rules.
Air transport:
if you get such a unit it cant be an attacking unit. it just has to be a air transport (like a transport for air)
IPC 8
Att 0
Def 0
Range 4
takes one art or one infantry ( mech, airborne, or regular)
must have a zero defense because that wont make it a cheap soaker. If its attacked and its alone in the space they are destroyed like transports alone in SZ.
You can only drop as many Airborne as you have bombers and follow all OOB rules.
IL are you also implying that they have to be delivered by Bombers or you can only buy as many as bombers as you have?
Also, what are OOB rules?
Thanks
OOB is out of the box rules
Also, if the new pieces dont include a transport plane, the airborne have to be limited to something or Germany will try Sealion and buy a million airborne ( perhaps by saving 10 IPC a turn for 5 turns, then landing like 30 of these out of the blue) anytime UK forgets to leave 30 infantry to defend. This creates lame playing conditions like some kind of ICBM threat. Plus the bombers limit the capabilities of these elite troops and place some limits on huge flying armies against capitals. I have played house with this and what im saying does happen and it ruins the game and turns WW2 into some kind of buck rogers thing.
NO BOMBERS TRANSPORTING SOLDIERS! THAT IS JUST STUPID!
They are not doing it physically. Its just that im representing the total glider and transport forces as limited by the total bombers because we have no other corresponding unit that fits. You have to have some limits because these elite trained forces are hard to produce it takes time and they dont fly like birds… they need planes and not fighters…
whats wrong with just paying ipcs
whats wrong is: no limitations on builds creates armies of flying airborne used like aircraft and costing 5 IPC. Players will make armies of these suckers and take the entire airforce and kill anything built behind the lines every turn and turn the game into buck Rodgers. This is nothing like WW2 and a mockery of warfare….all because its not balanced.
Think of it as 5 IPC fighters attacking at two. Now it becomes the old rehash of: 2 destroyers or 1 Battleship and people buying airborne as ‘aircraft’…for 5 IPC
You NEED limits based on capacity to transport and the unit that best fits this mold is the bomber.
Second thing is if you lose your capital you never get it back, because the capturing player just buys tons of airborne and retakes UK or Moscow or Berlin by dropping them in faster than moving tanks or transporting by sea. It imbalances the game.
when my friends and I play, our rule is a bomber can drop one infantry as a paratrooper, and if you have heavy bombers you can drop 2 INF or 1 ART or 1 ARM. if you use a bomber as a carrier, it can’t bomb that turn. I’ve used this to capture Stalingrad, Iceland, and India on different occasions. It also helps you get behind enemy lines and break defenses
MadMc, I have thought about using the heavy bomber as extra cargo capacity. A regular bomber drops 1 bomb & 1 para oob rules. HB drops 2 bombs & para, or 1 bomb & 2 para.Maybe only allow bombs to drop 1st wave of battle when carrying ground units or paratroopers. You can also load up to 6 ipc worth of ground units, 2 inf,1art,1arm,or 1AA gun. The bomber/ air transport would have to land and unload on friendly soil. Only inf can paratroop. Not sure if you should allow bomber to attack (1 bomb dice) when it is carrying ground units other then paratroopers. Also thought about allowing bomber/ air transport to be used to lend lease ipc’s to Russia or China. I’m not sure if I like using a bomber this way or if we really need an air transport unit as talked about before. How did the games you played work out. Was it used a lot. Did it affect the out come, and balance. WB
i don’t have a problem with bombers (HB or otherwise) also representing transport aircraft for paratroopers, provided they are not allowed to bomb ALSO. without a specific transport piece they just have to represent more than bombers, like current armor units represents more than just tanks…
limits, whether per turn or per number of bombers sounds fine. I’m sure someone would buy 30 at once, but at least if you saw the buildup you had some balance of warning.
i would think air transports of ART could not drop with paratroops, but could certainly move to friendly territories…
Getting back to the new inf units, or special forces(SF). Cost $4. Maybe allow upgrade of inf for $1 call it training. Pay for upgrades in purch units phase get them during mob units phase @ IC. Give them +1 on attack for the 1st round of battle only. Could be preempt so enemy casualties don’t fire back. I think selective hits would be to much for $4. This could symbolize Commandos, Marines, or Imperial banzai etc. You could also extend +1 to defense for 1st round only to represent Atlantic wall, dug in defenders or just boost the def of a capital. These units could still get support from art oob rules. Could limit SF to the amount given to us (no chips). These SF could be used as paratroopers w/ bombers oob. You could however buy fly tokens instead. Tokens would be $1 each. Think of the SF unit as you would any other air unit when it flies. The further you want to go the more $ it costs with a max of 3 tokens per SF unit. You could attach fly tokens to the SF unit in order to use it or keep them @ your capital. If stored @ capital you could use them for any SF unit giving it the element of surprise. Once you use a fly token its done you must re-buy them. You could also use fly tokens to move regular inf or SF in non combat, but only SF unit can be used as a paratrooper in an attack. Maybe allow movement of other ground units @ 2x cost?
Example 1: Say Germany has 5 SF on East Poland through purchases or upgrades (cost $20).
It wants to attack Moscow 2 spaces away. To fly them in would cost $2 each ($10). If those SF were on Warsaw cost to fly them in would be $3. each ($15)
Example 2: Say Germany has 5 SF on France through purchases or upgrades($20 invested). It wants to attack the UK 2 spaces away across English Chanel. To fly them in would be $2 each ($10). Total spent for attack =30 ipc’s.
Cost of an air transport would be around $8 (IL) with limited cargo, but you could use it over & over again. Air tokens could limit themselves depending on where you wanted to go because of cost. You could also place a limit on them, or link them to the # of air units you have as discussed earlier. Island hopping would be expensive at $3 per guy. Maybe you could base them off an AC.
The best way to represent Air tranports in with a chip you put under a paratooper unit to show it is ready to be paradroped up to 2 spaces away. After the paradrop you can save the air transport chip and put it next to your tech tokens and equip it to an infantry unit or paratooper unit. If it is equiped to an infatry unit it can only be transported 3 spaces to a friendly territory and with research you can get heavy tranports which can transport an artillery or tank.
transport chips are also subject to AA fire.
I dont like having a tranport peice because they are really big and take up space but they dont even kill anything. If I were to add a new air unit it would something that kills stuf like a Heavey Bomber/Jet fighter/ light bomber/torpedo bomber
yes we don’t need a piece for transport… just a token thats stocked in your home territory ( capital). These planes should not even be able to be killed and if they are left in some faraway territory and its taken you just stick it back in your home. Just limit the total number of transports so we don’t get the “flying shock armies scenario” ala buck Rodgers.
The reason I said air transports should be subject to AA fire is that I remember reading that the Germans lost alot at Crete and that ended up hurt them in Russia.
Yes and once they were gone Germany could not replace them because the specialized training required, a small fraction of what was left was used in Dec 44, but these were scraps. This means limitations must be in the rules to limit quantities.
So, how do you suggest transport chips are destoyed?
And why not just price tranports right so flying armies are impractical? Did tranport planes really require more speacilized training than aircraft carriers?
they should be destroyed only if you lose your capital. Transport planes are not military planes and the enemy does not have fighters patrolling vast tracts of enemy territory looking for planes to shoot down. Transports are infrastructure.
flying armies should be limited to transport tokens and the transports should cost like at least the price of a ocean transport
I think perhaps 12 IPC is fair.
@Imperious:
they should be destroyed only if you lose your capital. Transport planes are not military planes and the enemy does not have fighters patrolling vast tracts of enemy territory looking for planes to shoot down. Transports are infrastructure.
flying armies should be limited to transport tokens and the transports should cost like at least the price of a ocean transport
I think perhaps 12 IPC is fair.
yes, 12 dose seem fair if they allow are allowed to transport a paratooper 2 spaces for an attack, and can transport infantry 3 spaces in the non combat.
but like i said earlier, transport planes should be subject to AA fire becasue they were on Crete to a point that it hurt the German later on in the war.
