what Hobbes is saying is 100% true. But, where tanks become a real problem for the allies is on Persia. Stack 8+ there and use German force to open Kazhak. Even if the Allies know to look for it, the mere threat of it is often enough for them to give up the Caucausus complex.
When to stop ignoring Japan?
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Hey, first time posting.
I recently starting playing AAR by e-mail after not playing for several years. So far, I mostly play as the Allies, and I’m not trying to do anything crazy until I can get the tried-and-true strategies to work for me. Hence, I usually go KGF. My question is what to do about Japan?
Before I go on, there’s another thread from a few months ago which digressed into how to pull off the KJF. I want to go for Berlin while at the same time protecting Russia’s back door.
Last game I played, I focused entirely on Germany, meaning all American forces moved east and I hustled my Pacific fleet through panama. This freed Japan up to invade Persia leaving the Soviets to clean up. Moscow fell on G-3. There were a few other tactical blunders I made (bad UK purchases and a very accurate Japanese BMB), but I really believe that I can’t let Japan run willy-nilly through Asia.
Basically, when do the other allies pitch in to take some heat off Moscow? I thought initially that I’d want to build up my US pacific fleet after an initial effort in Europe/Africa, around US-3. Then I realized that the US BB isn’t going to do anything in the atlantic until US-3 at the earliest, so may as well leave it in sz55 until I’m ready to steal islands.
So what do you do in the first 2-3 rounds to distract Japan?
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Wow, Moscow on G3. In a game like that, Japan is the least of you problems right?
I’m certainly not a pro, but what did you do as the Soviets? I can’t imagine losing Moscow so soon.
Oh and for the USA, I recommend not building a Pacific fleet at all in a KGF game until your cycle of transports in the Atlantic are useless, meaning Berlin, France, and Italy have fallen. After the USA has laid the foundation with enough transports, they can buy ground troops and the occasional fighter until the Allies own Europe.
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Once, my precious Moscow burned on G1.
AND I play very conservative. Bell & WR.
Very rare dice for this to happen though. On WR i saw nothing but white, then on G1, when Moscow was attacked, nothing but white dice again.
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Make sure you build plenty of infantry for Russia. Japan can be ignored for awhile. If you have US land in Africa, then Japan income will hit a max of about 50.
There are some pretty decent strategies at the following link, http://www.gametableonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=36.
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Wow, Moscow on G3. In a game like that, Japan is the least of you problems right?
I’m certainly not a pro, but what did you do as the Soviets? I can’t imagine losing Moscow so soon.
Like I said, tactical blunders. I think I played Russia pretty well, but I didn’t back them up with the UK.
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I landed my BMB in East Italian Africa alone to reclaim Egypt, where it was subsequently shredded by the German Bomber.
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I left the UK/US transports unattended in sz 12 where the Luftwaffe sunk them all.
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I spent most of the UK’s treasure building the sexiest navy with 2 BB’s and a fully loaded AC. It was like I was more concerned with capturing the Baltic than Moscow.
Oh well. Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement, so live and learn.
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Personally, I don’t like to ever abandon the Pacific with the US. I want to keep something there to keep Japan’s focus divided. You’re right, the Pacific fleet can’t do much for a couple turns, and it takes a couple to even get into position. As Japan, I love that because i have the Pacific to myself and can focus on swallowing up India and onto Moscow.
I think a big part of KGF is to keep Japan from helping Germany as much as I can. Sometimes the Axis will fly Jap fighters to Europe and then there is the African landing by the Japanese. I see these as less of a possibility when Japan has the potential of US attack much closer to home.
I may spend the majority of money in the Atlantic in KGF, but I’m always squirreling something away for the Pacific even if I’m not dropping it straight in, and I think that that helps to keep them a bit more honest.
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The key to a KGF is to eliminate Germany’s ability to get to or partake in a 1-2 attack on Mos. This is best done if you can maintain a massive Allied (all 3 Allies participate) stack in Wrus with UK/US landing through Kar. From here you can send Russia after Japan, while UK/US finish off Germany. This assumes you have the ipc lead. And of course can be easier said then done.
The first thing is don’t over extend with Russia or waste units.
I like to attck Wrus only and bring in overwhelming force, but a case can be made to attack Wrus and Ukr. A 3 inf, 3 arm buy is usually pretty solid. This can establish a solid base in Wrus and prevent Germany from stacking Ukr or Kar on G1. It also gives the UK/US time to land in Afr and set up their Atlantic fleets. On the Eastern front I’ll fall back. Maybe keep an early Yak stack, but retreat before Japan can attack.Likewise I’ll retreat any US inf and get my bomber to Mos/Cauc ASAP. This allows the US two turns of attacking the forward J inf. 1 inf, 1 bom in 1 rd and 1 inf, 1 bom in another.
I also like to retreat the UK inf in Trj/Per/Ind before they can be attacked and again once you get your UK ftrs to Wrus (UK 1) and bom to Mos or Yak you can chip away at advancing J inf or even hit Ukr if you moved 1 inf to Cauc.
If you can land in Alg in Rd 1, then great, but if you have to do it on rd 2 that is fine. you can usually hit with 4 UK units and 4-6 US in Rd 2.
The benefit of the slightly heavier landings in rd 2 is it may scare the Germany player to slightly over protect WE or even SE and that means less units for Russia. Your goal is to lenghten the game (typically the longer the game the better it is for the Allies), so you don’t need any foolish attacks or gambles, you are just playing the numbers. And If Russia holds Wrus when UK/US start landing in Kar (~rd 5) then I’d be willing to guess that the window on the German threat to Mos has closed and now you can shuffle troops to Mos if needed against Japan or press on Belo then EE and completely shut Germany down.
I consider WE an afterthought for the Allies. It is nice to have but it keeps UK/US troops away from Russia. If you can trade it then great but you shouldn’t try to hold if those units would be more valuable in defending Wrus/Mos/Cauc.
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I was gonna write that same thing Darth, but then the carpal-tunnel set in….
jk-- great post.
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Good post DarthMaximus.
The most common mistake I see when playing Axis is the Allies leaving infantry behind to be eaten by Japan. When pursuing a KGF strategy, you may want to attack Japanese units if they are overextended. But you don’t want to let them attack you unless you have the odds…and when you figure the odds, you have to take all those Japanese planes into account.
So generally in a KGF I’m leaving some units in India/Bury on Turn 1 to tempt Japan into overextending itself…but after that I retreat to Moscow. If possible, try to keep an infantry stack in Novo with some tanks to back it up to trade Yakut and Sinkiang, but not at the risk of allowing Germany to stack critical territories like Karelia.
You may also want to try some kind of naval gambit (Borneo and/or attack the sub and land the fig on the American carrier) on Turn 1 with United Kingdom in order to slow down Japan’s development. It’s your call–if you don’t plan to use those units against Germany somehow it’s usually better to hit Japan.
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I agree with Zhukov and Darth.
To echo Zhukov’s point, you’d rather be attacking (or threatening to attack) Japan then having them attack you. Typically in the first 3-4 rounds at least, Japan has a very thin infantry front with a crapload of planes behind them. If you trade their front-line territories you can slow them down a round, but if you put your forces where they can attack you then you’d better be able to survive against their air force.
Typically I’ll retreat my forces along the top (Bry/Yak/Nov/Mos) route, and ideally try to find one turn in their to stand still. For example, if you retreat to Yak the first turn, you may be able to stay in Yak for one turn before you have to pull out (depending on how they do J1). It’s all about finding a few well-chosen stands to make to slow things down.
Darth’s advice about using the two American inf is excellent. With air support they can clear two whole territories. UK inf similarly if a couple survived.
One other thing, if you accumulate some tanks in Moscow then they can be useful on both fronts. They can contribute to making deadzones out of both Sin/Yak on the eastern front, and Ukr/Kar on the western front. So the same units can be preventing both Germany and Japan from advancing their stacks. Of course planes can do the same, but you generally can’t afford them. Anyway, one thing that can help keep a buffer against Japan is having some tanks in Moscow–say, 5-8 if you can get them–and a handful of inf in Nov. This should buy you at least a couple turns in which Yak and Sin are traded rather than defended by the Japanese.
However, in KGF defense against Japan is secondary. I’ve lost a number of Axis games against opponents who did squat to stop Japan. Remember that if both Moscow and Berlin fall it’s almost always an Allied victory. I’d be more concerned right away with your Allied game against Germany. The three errors you mentioned are all worth correcting, especially (2) and (3). There are a number of ways to set up the transport system (US can focus on the Mediterranean or follow the UK into the Baltic; UK can operate in the Baltic or go north to SZ 4 and drop troops in Arch; etc) but getting an efficient transport chain set up is the single most important component of an Allied KGF game.
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Thanks! :-D
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