How to cut Germany's economy over half in three turns

[mikecool70]

UK 1: Build 3 bombers and don’t lose that first bomber you start with (do something safe like kill remnants of German fleet)
USA1: Move the two bombers to England

UK 2: Build 4 bombers (with the 8 IPCs you saved from turn one you should be able to do this)
Use all six bombers to bomb Germany.  Statistically, you will lose one but you’ve built four more so who cares).

UK 3:  Keep bombing the hell out of Germany and build at least one bomber to replace your losses.  Or build two more in case you have an unlucky turn or if you want to also start pounding Italy to -6 every turn.

Of course, the benefits of the above are tremendous for Russia.  Russia builds mostly tanks and Germany can’t compete with that since he’s at about 20 IPCs once making repairs.  Russia can at least take Norway and Finland while USA sends in forces into the Med to take out the Balkans.  That is 10 more IPCs for Russia.  Of course, if NOs are not being played with, then Germany and Italy are even more screwed.

Of course, Japan is a monster and can start doing the same thing to Russia but it will take longer to set it up and Russia can still hold off Japanese forces long enough for Italy and Germany to fall once USA gets and IC built in Europe or captures Italy.

Any thoughts?

[Jennifer]

Pretty standard.

Which is why I like to get technology.  Radar and or Improved Factories really kill this plan.  But over all, it’s pretty good.  You forgot to take into consideration German and Italian SBRs on England / Russia however.  Also, if America’s going that strong with bombers, you might have issues with Japan SBRing W. USA as well.

[mikecool70]

Yes, radar and improved factories would be bad for this plan.  Of course, Germany better get it quick or it might be too late, especially if USA starts landing troops in France every turn while Russia sends all his tanks towards Germany and Italy.  Plus, the more money Germany puts into technology each turn, the less land units to defend from Russia and USA.

USA would only use the starting bombers to bomb Germany and/or Italy.  Actually, now that I think about it, those USA bombers may be better used doing something different.

[Jennifer]

Yes.  Which is why I said it was a good plan.  I was just pointing out some things to consider.

Also, you should bear in mind that Italy is not sitting around doing nothing.  Your plan calls for an all out attack on Berlin, so I’ll assume you are not attacking Rome.  That means you should start expecting an Italy in the 30+ IPC range and England with no Victory Cities. (America will have 1, it will be the one in North America.)

[axis_roll]

@mikecool70:

Any thoughts?

yes, how about a nice game of Yahtzee?

We’ll modify it slightly, If I roll a bunch of ones, I can stop you from scoring.

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Alot less set-up than AA50, and about just as much fun  :-(

[Count_Zeppelin]

UK 2: Build 4 bombers (with the 8 IPCs you saved from turn one you should be able to do this)

UK starts with 43 IPC; 3 Bombers is 36 IPC, 7 IPC remain.
UK loses 10 to 13 IPC on its first round, depending on egypt; remaining IPC (loss = 10) 33 + 7 = 40 IPC
(Borneo, East Indies, Burma, Egypt, Trans-Jordan)

[a44bigdog]

Count_Zeppelin already touched on one problem, that being the money is incorrectly figured.

Here are some others. Since England is buying all bombers, what is preventing the Germans from throwing everything they have at Russia? Who is keeping Italy from having all of Africa? What happens when the AA guns  shoot down all your bombers? What if the bombers roll all ones and twos? Who is keeping Japan company? They might feel left out and seek someone to play with.

Strategic Bombing campaigns are useful, I have used them in Revised by both sides, however, they are not the easy automatic path to victory every one assumes they are. Also a problem with this strategy as laid out is one I find with many. It assumes a static and willing victim for it to succeed and if your opponent is that bad, then do you even need a real strategy?

[tcnance]

yep dog is right, what if germany buys an ac and tranny for sea lion, uk is sitting there with 4 bomber 2 fig and  a couple of infantry for defense?

[mikecool70]

@a44bigdog:

Count_Zeppelin already touched on one problem, that being the money is incorrectly figured.

Here are some others. Since England is buying all bombers, what is preventing the Germans from throwing everything they have at Russia? Who is keeping Italy from having all of Africa? What happens when the AA guns  shoot down all your bombers? What if the bombers roll all ones and twos? Who is keeping Japan company? They might feel left out and seek someone to play with.

Strategic Bombing campaigns are useful, I have used them in Revised by both sides, however, they are not the easy automatic path to victory every one assumes they are. Also a problem with this strategy as laid out is one I find with many. It assumes a static and willing victim for it to succeed and if your opponent is that bad, then do you even need a real strategy?

England is not building only bombers every turn.  They do that the first couple of turns only.  Then on turn 3, maybe 1 per turn or (if they get heavy bombers) 2 per turn.  They should definitely build up a small fleet with at least one transport just to bleed off some German/Italian forces.

England is the only one doing this.  The USA is building just enough fleet to keep Japan from attacking USA.  The USA is also building enough fleet and air force to take out the Italian navy and maybe threaten Italy itself (depends on how much of the UK air force survives and if they are also bombing Italy each turn).

You ask what happens if UK loses all of its bombers or if it rolls low numbers.  Well that depends on what turn it happens.  If it happens on turn 2, then sure, the Axis will probably win the game.  But if happens on turn 5, when Germany is already on the defensive, then the Allies can probably survive it.  By the same token, I could point out that the German air force could get unlucky and be completely destroyed on G1.  Wouldn’t that give the Allies an advantage at winning the game?  Others have been saying that this game seems to be decided in the first few turns, so what difference does it make if the Allies lose because the UK loses all of its bombers on UK2?

What is preventing Germany from throwing everything at Russia?  Uh, the SBRs perhaps?  If Germany repairs the damage, then they have less money to spend on troops.  The SBRs will most likely put their spendable money down to about as much as Russia’s spendable income (assuming that they don’t repair ALL of the damage each turn; but this would allow UK to use less bombers on their next turn and therefore less chance to get shot down, so it balances it out). Plus Germany might be spending money on technology, trying to get radar and/or improved production.  Each 5 IPCs they spend on that is one less tank going towards Russia.

[mikecool70]

@tcnance:

yep dog is right, what if germany buys an ac and tranny for sea lion, uk is sitting there with 4 bomber 2 fig and  a couple of infantry for defense?

If Germany builds a navy to invade UK, then UK has achieved its purpose: to take pressure off of Russia.  Then all those bombers, fighters and remaining UK navy can destroy the German fleet and Russia is in even better shape.

[kendric]

Atleast japan can only bomb moscow for 12 a turn instead of the 20 on germany :)
One counter to thsi might be for germany to repair only 12-13 (from -10 to 2-3) and build only fighters or something. And just turtle till japan gets there.

[gebs99]

like the idea, i usually play the game with 3 players, 1 Rusia, 1 UK, and both handling USA. 1 for the whole axis (im RUsia). The axis player usually forgets completely about africa, focuses germany and italy on attacking Rusia and expands japan as much as he cans in asia. This strategy could surely make germany much more weaker. However, perhaps i would go with a more long term sbr strategy meaning that i wouldnt buy 3 bombers for UK but maybe only 2 or even 1  and do that per turn.

[tarkonis]

How is it that you can use all your bombers you just built in turn 2, when you cant deploy them until the end of your turn?

[Fenian]

@mikecool70:

If Germany builds a navy to invade UK, then UK has achieved its purpose: to take pressure off of Russia.  Then all those bombers, fighters and remaining UK navy can destroy the German fleet and Russia is in even better shape.

A baltic navy serves to shorten supply lines to russia so i am not sure you actually have relieved pressure.  Also you may have succeeded -too- well if England actually falls to the Sea Lion it would pretty much be game over even if Russia is doing well.

[tin_snips]

SBR’s are fairly effective, but i don’t think your stratagem is as effective as you think. i only need three turns as Germany to get enough forces to defeat Russia (obviously it still comes down to luck, just talking generally though). and considering Germany goes before the UK, that means two SBR’s on me in that time. the first one won’t be overly effective as you don’t have a large enough force of bombers, and there will be enough IPC’s gained from NO’s and territory captures to let me get the forces i need still

SBR’s aren’t something that can be relied upon as a single strategy. bombing AND building up forces for an invasion is always the way to go. it just may take longer to invade if you focuse more on the SBR’s

[Jennifer]

I reject the notion that three turns with Germany is enough to defeat Russia.

Sorry, but 3 turns is a maximum of +30 units and you’re bleeding units taking and defending territories during that time.

[tin_snips]

you can reject it all you want, but if the UK is only building bombers, then the US has to focuse completely on Japan so that’s less defences to the shoreline yet again. and if the US splits its attention between Europe and Asia, then Japan can help with Russia. it all works out

AND don’t forget Italy. what will they be doing while un-checked?

[tin_snips]

i just feel that, like any strategy employed in this game, you cannot pick one and go with it. you need a spread of them, and be ready to change in your next turn if an opportunity presents itself  :-o

[Young Grasshopper]

@tin_snips:

i just feel that, like any strategy employed in this game, you cannot pick one and go with it. you need a spread of them, and be ready to change in your next turn if an opportunity presents itself   :-o

This is most true, If the UK builds only ships or only planes around London than by round 3…… London might be the only thing left.

[alwayswin]

The UK must get an Atlantic fleet going. You can’t keep building planes without any IPC’s to work with. I would welcome any opponent who focused solely on strat. bombing. And what happens if Germany gets radar? Then what?

I almost never strat. bomb in my strategy, it’s too expensive and too risky. The only exception is a powerful Japan doing it to Russia later in the game when the bombers may be heavy and they can afford to replace them.