AA50 Rules Errata and Q+A

[Yoshi]

The battle is still going on since there is still a sub in play ; so my understanding of the rule is that if you keep your sub and decide to retreat, than the tranny survives.

The only possibility I see to kill the tranny and retreat the sub would be that you go for one more round, the opponent sub stay fighting, both sub miss while at least one air hits ; then you’d have sub versus sub only, and you could retreat.

[gamerman01]

Yoshi is correct

[Rorschach]

@Yoshi:

The battle is still going on since there is still a sub in play ; so my understanding of the rule is that if you keep your sub and decide to retreat, than the tranny survives.

The only possibility I see to kill the tranny and retreat the sub would be that you go for one more round, the opponent sub stay fighting, both sub miss while at least one air hits ; then you’d have sub versus sub only, and you could retreat.

Correct.  Transports are not automatically killed.  Technically you still have to do another round of combat in order to hit it (or multiple rounds until you DO hit it).  If there was ONLY a transport left or you had no ships in the zone capable of hitting the enemy, then obviously you could forgo this technicality and presume that you would continue until it’s dead (unless you were insane and wanted to leave it alive in that instance).

[boldfresh]

@Krieghund:

@Boldfresh:

hmm, not sure why I thought this, but I thought transports took hits, just couldn’t fire back.

That’s true.

@Boldfresh:

so if there were 10 defending units, including 3 transports, and the attacker got 9 hits, I thought he could retreat to a legal zone leaving one transport alive.

so a sub against three transports could keep firing until he got 2 hits and then retreat was what I always believed.� please confirm because i have thought this way for a long time.

No.� Once one side (or both) is out of units that can either hit enemy units or retreat, the battle is over.� No retreat is possible, and defenseless transports are destroyed.

turns out it’s a moot point in this case since I am going to lose the british sub as a casualty in round 1 (brain wasn’t quite working this morning).  even if the transport survives round 1 that means the transport dies in round 2 to the planes and the battle is over.

but just for interest, i think from what krieg said before, the question of whether the transport survives round 1 or not is yes.  if the british keep a sub, combat could continue but the transport dies.  if the british lose the sub, the transport survives but is autokilled in round 2.

so technically, the only way the transport could survive the battle is IF the british keep the sub in round 1 and choose to retreat before round 2.  if the british lose the sub in the first round, the transport is instantly dead.  once again, what cannot happen is the british lose the sub and then pull out of the battle leaving the transport alive.

thanks

[boldfresh]

@Rorschach:

@Yoshi:

The battle is still going on since there is still a sub in play ; so my understanding of the rule is that if you keep your sub and decide to retreat, than the tranny survives.

The only possibility I see to kill the tranny and retreat the sub would be that you go for one more round, the opponent sub stay fighting, both sub miss while at least one air hits ; then you’d have sub versus sub only, and you could retreat.

Correct.  Transports are not automatically killed.  Technically you still have to do another round of combat in order to hit it (or multiple rounds until you DO hit it).  If there was ONLY a transport left or you had no ships in the zone capable of hitting the enemy, then obviously you could forgo this technicality and presume that you would continue until it’s dead (unless you were insane and wanted to leave it alive in that instance).

interesting that you posted this Rorschach, because this is what i always thought, but krieg informed me this is not the case.  it is not an issue of the transports taking a number of hits.  if there were 10 transports and I attacked them with 9 planes, it is not an option for the attacker to say i attack one round killing 9 transports and then retreat leaving one alive.

[Rorschach]

@Boldfresh:

@Rorschach:

@Yoshi:

The battle is still going on since there is still a sub in play ; so my understanding of the rule is that if you keep your sub and decide to retreat, than the tranny survives.

The only possibility I see to kill the tranny and retreat the sub would be that you go for one more round, the opponent sub stay fighting, both sub miss while at least one air hits ; then you’d have sub versus sub only, and you could retreat.

Correct.  Transports are not automatically killed.  Technically you still have to do another round of combat in order to hit it (or multiple rounds until you DO hit it).  If there was ONLY a transport left or you had no ships in the zone capable of hitting the enemy, then obviously you could forgo this technicality and presume that you would continue until it’s dead (unless you were insane and wanted to leave it alive in that instance).

interesting that you posted this Rorschach, because this is what i always thought, but krieg informed me this is not the case.  it is not an issue of the transports taking a number of hits.  if there were 10 transports and I attacked them with 9 planes, it is not an option for the attacker to say i attack one round killing 9 transports and then retreat leaving one alive.

Yeah, I thought about this a bit more after posting my reply.  lol.

So mostly correct … except that you CANNOT leave the defenseless transports alive and choose to retreat.  The wording in the rules (and sometimes the way Kreig words it even) can get a little dicey at times.

So in essence :

Attack a sub, 3 surface warships and a transport with a sub and 5 planes.
Score no hit with the sub and 3 with the planes
Defender removes surface warships
You no longer have any units that can attack each other
Transport is killed
Planes land in non-combat

Or any combination of units that results in attacking units that cannot hit each other thus leaving the defending transport(s) undefended = dead transport(s).

[boldfresh]

i think we are in agreement, but your example would leave a sub defending and a sub attacking (i think you mean the defense to score one hit with the sub, killing the attacking sub, in which case the transport dies and the battle is over), so a second round of combat is possible and the transport would indeed survive the first round of combat as i understand it.

thus, if the attacker were to retreat after one round in your example, if he still has his sub, the transport would live.

is that clear as can possibly be???  :lol:

[boldfresh]

"Quote from: Tyzoq on Today at 04:24:55 pm
Quote from: Boldfresh on Today at 12:54:42 pm
what i mean is there is no concept of transports taking X number of hits.  if a single transport is hit, all transports are hit.

I can think of 1 exception to this. 1 Heavy bomber vs 1 defender and X Transports.  If you’re playing heavy bombers can get multiple hits then you could kill a transport and be killed in the same round leaving all but 1 transport.

interesting thought and that could be, but i’m not sure if krieg would agree. "

Krieg, to me Tyzoq’s logic seems sound, could you comment?

thanks

[Krieghund]

Another example where only some defending transports might be sunk is similar to Rorschach’s scenario.  Five fighters and a sub attack three cruisers, three transports, and a sub.  If all five fighters hit and both subs miss and the attacker takes all casualties on fighters, two transports will be sunk.  With only a sub and fighters versus a sub and transport, the attacker could retreat.

Of course, there are any number of ways some attacking transports could be sunk before their fellows retreat.  One example is a cruiser and two transports attacking two destroyers.  If both destroyers hit, the cruiser and one transport are sunk, then the other transport retreats.

There are two important things to remember.  One is that hits are assigned to transports in exactly the same way as they are to other surface ships, except that they are assigned last.  The other is that a sea battle is over when all units on one or both sides that can fire or retreat are gone, which means that the attacker cannot retreat at that point.  If the attacker still has units with an attack value when the battle ends, all defending transports are sunk.  The reverse would also apply if the attacker can’t retreat for some reason.

[Guest]

I have a question about transports and other Allied troops. Can you load troops onto your transports then move to a different sea zone and transfer the troops to another Allied transport? I have never seen it done and wanted to verify. Thanks.

[gamerman01]

@Ol’:

I have a question about transports and other Allied troops. Can you load troops onto your transports then move to a different sea zone and transfer the troops to another Allied transport? I have never seen it done and wanted to verify. Thanks.

You can never move troops directly from transport to transport.
You must unload them to land and then re-load them to get onto a different transport.

Example:
UK transport could pick up USA ground unit from Western Canada.  You have USA transport in the Solomons you want to take the unit from there. 
1)  You must load onto the UK transport on the USA turn because it’s a USA ground unit
2)  Move the UK transport on the next UK turn (to zone 46)
3)  Unload USA ground unit to the Solomons on USA turn
4)  NEXT USA round, you can load the USA unit from the Solomons onto a USA transport and move as normal.

[Guest]

Thanks Gamer!

[gamerman01]

Any time

[Zhukov44]

Let’s say there is a sub and a transport in a zone where I want to make an amphib landing.  Can I attack the sz with airpower (to kill the transport) and also land my amphib (ignoring the sub)?

[Yoshi]

nope, you go for both or for none (of course, if you attack the sea zone without DD, you might get only one if the sub dives :) )

[boldfresh]

@Yoshi:

nope, you go for both or for none (of course, if you attack the sea zone without DD, you might get only one if the sub dives :) )

not sure what you mean Yoshi - a plane cannot hit a sub unless a destroyer is present?

[Yoshi]

just the obvious “a sub can dive if no dd there” (but might not if the attack is made only by air and trannies)

[gamerman01]

You can wait for Krieghund since it’s me you’re playing, by all means, Zhukov.

Yoshi, the plane would kill the transport, but without an attacking destroyer, the sub wouldn’t dive, it would sink the attacking transport in the first round.  Oh - I see that’s what you just posted.  Yes, the defender would not submerge the sub but would sink the attacking transport because the sub is invincible.  But it can’t be ignored.

Zhukov does not want that to happen, so as you said, you cannot attack the one and ignore the other. � It’s all or none. � Which is what Zhukov needed to know - so that helped.

Krieghund? � Zhukov is playing me, so could you please confirm the answer to Zhuk’s question? � Thank you.
Unless Yoshi and my answers are good enough for you?  It’s not like it’s significant in our game, especially because I’m generously letting you keep the cleared with no losses result without re-rolling.  If I was a jerk and a stickler, I could say your transport is sunk and it’s your problem for not knowing the rules properly.  :-D

It is a 12 IPC swing, after all!

[Zhukov44]

Yeah if both Gamer and Yoshi agree I’ll take their word for it.  Sounds like Krieg has already ruled on this and explained his reasoning–I just can’t find it via search…

This particular rule seems illogical…but I’m sure there’s a rationale.  Once again I’ve been playing the wrong way all this time  :-P

I like the sub rules for Global better.

[gamerman01]

This would be the same in global, except that you wouldn’t even have the option of ignoring both boats, you would need a warship  :-)