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Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised)
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In Axis & Allies Revised:
1- If a carrier of the turn power having fighters of the turn power as cargo starts the turn inside a hostile sea zone and neither moves nor launches any fighters, during Combat Move, can the fighters remain as cargo, not participating in the battle, and, then, be launched and move, during the subsequent Non Combat Move?
2- If the previous is positive, how about if the same zone is entered by other sea units, during Combat Move, and, during the battle, the unmoved carrier with the cargo of fighters retreat. Would the fighters be able to be launched, during Non Combat Move, and move of their full 4 zones mobility (without any weapons developments), thus possibly entering a total of 5 zones, from their start turn position, by the end of the Non Combat Move phase?
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@Cernel Fighters belonging to the Power are not cargo. Both the carrier and fighters would be in combat if they stay in the hostile sea zone.
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@Cernel BTW this is true whether or not the carrier is the same as the Turn’s Power. Fighters belonging to the Turn’s Power are always considered to be in the air. Only Fighters in a different Power’s carrier during that different Power’s Turn are considered cargo.
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I’m under the understanding that launching fighters from a carrier is always an active choice of the owner of the fighters (no matter the carrier ownership), just like offloading land units from a transport, except that it has to be taken before moving the carrier (you can offload your units after moving your transport, but you can never launch anything after moving the carrier). Am I right?
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@Cernel Sorry nope. Fighters belonging to the active Power on any carrier at sea are always considered already launched. That is why their movement is determined separately from the carrier.
From the Revised Rules LHTR 2.0 Page 28: (BOLD added by me)
Special Abilities:
Carry Fighters: An aircraft carrier can carry up to two fighters, including those belonging to
friendly powers. Fighters from friendly powers can take off and land from your carriers, but only
during that power’s turn. Any fighters belonging to the aircraft carrier owner move independently
of the carrier. These fighters can make a combat move from the carrier’s original sea zone, or they
can remain in the original sea zone until the noncombat move phase. Fighters belonging to
friendly powers on attacking carriers are always treated as cargo, as it is not their turn. Your
aircraft carrier can move to or remain in a sea zone where one of your fighters will end its
noncombat move (and in fact, it must do so if it is able). -
Sorry, I forgot to clarify that I was actually thinking to Revised OOB only.
Still, it would be interesting knowing the answer for both that and LHTR.
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AndrewAAGamer is correct regarding LHTR, but it’s different in OOB.
In scenario 1, you may legally do as you propose. There is no rule that would prevent it. Of course, the carrier must survive the battle, or the fighters will be lost.
In scenario 2, the fighters may not move in noncombat movement after the carrier retreats. In order for a fighter on a carrier to move in NCM, it must launch before the carrier moves. Retreat is a type of movement. Normally, if fighters on a carrier want to move in NCM when their carrier makes a combat movement, they must launch in CM and remain in the sea zone, but in this scenario if they did so they would participate in the battle and would not be eligible to make a noncombat movement (though they could, of course, still land after the battle).
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Thanks Krieghund! I guess that is why you are the rule guy because you probably would have asked what version before responding. I just assumed the latest version; I did not even consider that people might still be playing OOB.
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@Krieghund said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
Normally, if fighters on a carrier want to move in NCM when their carrier makes a combat movement, they must launch in CM and remain in the sea zone, but in this scenario if they did so they would participate in the battle and would not be eligible to make a noncombat movement (though they could, of course, still land after the battle).
You mean they could still move, of up to their full 4 spaces, during the “Press Attack or Retreat” step (regardless if retreating or winning the sea battle) (sort of anticipating their Non Combat Move movement during Conduct Combat)? Referring both to case 1 (the only attacking units started their turn in the zone and didn’t move) and to case 2 (also some sea units moved into), except that now we would launch all fighters we can.
Also, am I fully right in saying this:
launching fighters from a carrier is always an active choice of the owner of the fighters (no matter the carrier ownership), just like offloading land units from a transport, except that it has to be taken before moving the carrier
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@Krieghund said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
AndrewAAGamer is correct regarding LHTR
As well as all strategic WW2 rulesets from Revised LHTR onwards?
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@Cernel said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
@Krieghund said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
Normally, if fighters on a carrier want to move in NCM when their carrier makes a combat movement, they must launch in CM and remain in the sea zone, but in this scenario if they did so they would participate in the battle and would not be eligible to make a noncombat movement (though they could, of course, still land after the battle).
You mean they could still move, of up to their full 4 spaces, during the “Press Attack or Retreat” step (regardless if retreating or winning the sea battle) (sort of anticipating their Non Combat Move movement during Conduct Combat)? Referring both to case 1 (the only attacking units started their turn in the zone and didn’t move) and to case 2 (also some sea units moved into), except that now we would launch all fighters we can.
If fighting in their original zone, they would still have their full movement to either retreat or complete their move.
Also, am I fully right in saying this:
launching fighters from a carrier is always an active choice of the owner of the fighters (no matter the carrier ownership), just like offloading land units from a transport, except that it has to be taken before moving the carrier
Yes.
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@Cernel said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
@Krieghund said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
AndrewAAGamer is correct regarding LHTR
As well as all strategic WW2 rulesets from Revised LHTR onwards?
Yes.
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@Krieghund said in Fighters Non Combat launching from unmoved carriers that took part in battles (Revised):
AndrewAAGamer is correct regarding LHTR, but it’s different in OOB.
In scenario 1, you may legally do as you propose. There is no rule that would prevent it. Of course, the carrier must survive the battle, or the fighters will be lost.
In scenario 2, the fighters may not move in noncombat movement after the carrier retreats. In order for a fighter on a carrier to move in NCM, it must launch before the carrier moves. Retreat is a type of movement.
And I assume I can never launch fighters (that I kept as cargo during the battle on a carrier participating in it as an attacking unit) during the “Press Attack or Retreat” step of the Conduct Combat phase?
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Correct.
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