China wall strategy:

[Imperious Leader]

No other spots on the map are more fertile than in China. 2 territories get you 1 infantry. The Soviet player can effectively wall out the Japanese player, by seeding China with 2 infantry a turn to support the growth of Chinese infantry. They should send the eastern Infantry in a steady stream to western China.  Now Japan must go the long way ( by eastern Russia) or attack UK. If you decide to employ this idea the British player needs to forget Africa.

The Egypt forces move to Jordan and everything from that point shifts toward India.

The 3 UK infantry in S Africa are the african army now. You would hope the Italian player takes this bait and wastes his time taking Africa.

[FieldMarshalGames]

Sounds like a good plan to save CHINA.  Have you tested this out?  In the 1941 or 1942 set-up?

[Imperious Leader]

Yea is one game it seems like the Soviet player needs to seed the Chinese player…once it gets too strong for japan, the Japanese player cant really do well. This is much more feasible in 1942. Thats were i saw it.

[captainjack]

Can the Soviets afford to seed China with 2 inf (6 ipc) per turn?  It sounds like the US would also have to make a partial commitment to Germany or at least Italy then, right?

[Imperious Leader]

Its a great burden. but know that once the Chinese are fully grown, the Soviet can go back.

It would also depend on how well Germans did in Russia.

Its more of a long term strategy and great if your going after Japan first.

[captainjack]

@Imperious:

Its a great burden. but know that once the Chinese are fully grown, the Soviet can go back.

It would also depend on how well Germans did in Russia.

Its more of a long term strategy and great if your going after Japan first.

I wonder if Germany would “forget” that these Soviets are in China?  Later in the game, the Germans probably wouldn’t be expecting a wave of Russians to save the USSR’s rear from the German tank push.  It would be kind of an “Infantry Savings Account.”

[Imperious Leader]

Yes well like in all things the amount you can fund will have a direct result either on your backdoor, or if you fund it too well on your front door with Germany.

[Comassion]

It sure would be nice though, to give the Japanese problems in China.  Free infantry are a good thing for the Allies.  We’ll have to see if Russia can really afford to do this, but the payoff could be not having Japan launching a full-on Moscow assault for several extra turns.

I love the multitude of ideas this forum comes up with - it looks like all the nations in this game have a delicate balancing act on their hands.

[HolKann]

Aah, nice plan, but what if the Germans go all-out Egy on G1? 2 inf 2 arm 1 rtl 1 bmr vs 1 ftr 2 inf 1 rtl 1 arm, both Egy and Trj will be Axis at the end of round 1… Which means a lot of less units to defend India :(

[Gallo Rojo]

@Imperious:

No other spots on the map are more fertile than in China. 2 territories get you 1 infantry. The Soviet player can effectively wall out the Japanese player, by seeding China with 2 infantry a turn to support the growth of Chinese infantry. They should send the eastern Infantry in a steady stream to western China.  Now Japan must go the long way ( by eastern Russia)

and what would prevent Japan for doing so?  :?

[thrasher]

Last game I send some USSR infantry to China. This was combined by a limited US Pacific strategy. A bomber was send to Australia. Together with some naval units.
This hampered Japan a lot!

Still I lost because Germany was unstoppable.

But at the moment I am in favor of Soviet help for China!

[Cow]

with national objectives on the german territories are just worth too much to spare some men. without it I’d spare some guys easily no problem.

Although I got to be honest. I sacrifice moscow to japan so I can take berlin . I always go all out.  I know in end game uk / usa > Japan.

[Heavy Deed]

Yes IL,this works very well. Japan is more vulnerable than it looks. I did a similar strategy and it was very effective. I think it could be the dominant strat for the Allies in '41 once people give it a try and see how it stymies the Japs on the mainland. And as the Japs only get 17 IPCs on their first turn, and as they will usually buy a factory for Manchuria,this can work to the Allies advantage as they wont be able to make threats until J3. By this time,Russia has about 4-5 men in China with more on their way from the Soviet Far East.

[kendric]

In the few 50th games I have played, japan destroys almost all of china(Usually down to 3 territories on J1. Russias guys will be in the west most province on R1). That gives china 1 infantry on US 1. On Russia 2 I moved those russians to the province east where I had placed the chinese infantry. The japanese massed opposite to that. With all infantry and no russian fighters there was no way to attack. I was stuck then with only 1 Chinese infantry a turn until the Japanese took the province below where my units were massed. I then had to pull back to prevent them from sneaking past and I ended up stacking my russian troops on the west most province. That led to 0 chinese units a turn. I never got enough there to mount any sort of counter attack. How do you hold enough chinese territory when japan wipes out all chinese troops on turn 1?

[Funcioneta]

@kendric:

How do you hold enough chinese territory when japan wipes out all chinese troops on turn 1?

You can’t, 1941 favors axis (mainly Japan) by a big margin.

[a44bigdog]

Russia has to commit either a tank or a plane to this for it to work. It is also like Africa was in Revised if Japan wants all of China bad enough they will have. What you can do with the Allied wall is delay Japan some and make them work for that last little bit in China.

[Imperious Leader]

In 41 they have just like 1 tank. In 42 they have about 4, when does the tank commit to the ‘China wall’ in your opinion?

[a44bigdog]

Obviously after they have bought some  :-D

The games I have done this in are on the computer at my house where I don’t have internet so I can’t look at any battlemap files, but I think it was around round 3 or so. Again I equate this with the Axis in Africa. If Japan really wants China they will have China. However slipping a few Russian units that way can prevent an early shutdown of Chinese infantry and sometimes even expand a bit. Just the early infantry from Kazakh and Novo is enough to hold up the easy advance for the Japanese and prevent China from potentially not being able to even produce an infantry on round 2.

I also think this will be more effective early in the playing cycle of the game because I think too many people are trying to play the Axis like it is Revised or Classic. I just don’t feel the pressure with the Axis that I did in early games and I feel a slowdown of the Axis juggernaut could lead to some mistakes by overly hasty players.

[cond1024]

I have yet to try this out, but thinking about the China situation I think this would be delay Japan enough to get China going.

1941:
On R1 move all ERuss inf to Buryatia (manuchia border) giving a total of 7 inf on the boarder, move Moscow tank east and purchase 1 fighter on R1. Move Yakut inf east.  Inf in Eve N Okr and Novo head to China west most territory.

So at the end of R1 there are 7 inf on manchuria boarder, making Japan think twice about an IC in Manchuria.  They could still put it in Shanghi, but then can only produce 2 unit/turn instead of 3.  Also
if Japan wants to attack that stack they will need to bring a sizeable force to destroy it, thereby diverting units from other more importatn J1 attacks.  By leaving Soviet Far East open for invasion I am enticing Japan to go that way and waste time taking only 1 IPC per turn and drawing forces away from China.

On R3 attack Manchuria with 8 inf 1 tank (from moscow), 1 fighter (from R1 buy).  Depending on the Japan force in Manchuria it should be easy to take.  If a sizeable Japan force is in Manchuria then I would just hold the ground.

By having two sizeable russian forces on both sides of china it makes Japan work harder to take china, thereby delaying their advance into china.

[allies_fly]

@cond1024:

I have yet to try this out, but thinking about the China situation I think this would be delay Japan enough to get China going.

1941:
On R1 move all ERuss inf to Buryatia (manuchia border) giving a total of 7 inf on the boarder, move Moscow tank east and purchase 1 fighter on R1. Move Yakut inf east.  Inf in Eve N Okr and Novo head to China west most territory.

So at the end of R1 there are 7 inf on manchuria boarder, making Japan think twice about an IC in Manchuria.  They could still put it in Shanghi, but then can only produce 2 unit/turn instead of 3.  Also
if Japan wants to attack that stack they will need to bring a sizeable force to destroy it, thereby diverting units from other more importatn J1 attacks.  By leaving Soviet Far East open for invasion I am enticing Japan to go that way and waste time taking only 1 IPC per turn and drawing forces away from China.

I like the idea odf a russia bomber R1.  Keeps borneo somewhat protected as a solo tpt would be lost.  Plus the bomber can attack Manchuria with those 7 inf…. Japan would need to defend it or leave it empty.

Lots of units to keep Japan occupied.