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Defending sub surprise strike

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition

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general LD
last edited by

Does a defending sub get a surprise strike?

A. Attacker has surface ships and subs NO destroyer. Combat starts attacking subs roll surprise strike first for subs.
Now can defending subs get counter strike suprise strike?
After that normal combat continues.
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Witt Moderator 2025 2024 '23 '22 '21 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 @general LD
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@general-LD yes. The Sub would get to roll first and any hit would have to be allocated , before the attacker rolled his dice.
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Sub question

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• • • slo

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@s.farresque:

Hi,
I too have been searching for answers but in a simple sub vs. sub context. Manual, pg 18,“Step 2, General Combat…both attacking and defending submarines can choose to either make a Surprise Strike or Submerge…”,pg 30,“Submarines, Special Abilities, Submersible:…The decision is made before any dice are rolled by either side (the attacker decides first) and takes effect immediately.”, this is reasserted on pg 4 of the March 2009 FAQ, “Submarines Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines? A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire , and the subs submerge immediately. The attacker decides before the defender.”. “Decides” does not equate to “attacks”.
BGG Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition, Forum, Rules, Sept, 2009, “Can a submarine ever be attacked without a destroyer present because of the ability to submerge first”. Kevin Chapman ( Patron) answers,“…so a sub can only attack another sub if the defender chooses to fight (or there is an attacking destroyer)”.
BGG (as above), in " subs vs other naval units", has other useful comments by Kevin Chapman and Don Moody on this subject.
I like the imagery of this implementation. A lone sub,or two causing isolated mayhem before sinking into the depths or just driving for their pens, until, at the slightest indication of an attack,“Dive, dive dive”. What is wrong with that…until a destroyer turns them from buccaneers of the sea into desperate survivors hoping only to escape!.
Cheers.

Was there a question in there somewhere? You initially said you were searching for answers but never really asked any question(s). Just trying to end your search for answers
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Sub question

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • Commando Brado

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Also note that your british fighters dont get to shoot at the german sub at all, as you are not bringing a destroyer along with you.
A

Sub Suprise Attack vs Battleship rules clarification…

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • agutting

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Yup.
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Defending against Subs

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • Capt. Winters

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@claborne:

So…. when you have a fleet of mixed subs/surface warships being attacked by only planes, you CANNOT take the subs as casualties?

No, they can not be taken as casualties. Only if the attacker sends a destroyer with his planes can your subs be removed by air attacks.
A

Can a sub 'force' combat?

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • allies_fly

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@Krieghund:

Enemy subs can be attacked or ignored at will by the acting player. The only effects that a destroyer has are to suppress subs special abilities and to allow air units to hit them.

‘sub’ stall is not a term we’ll be using in this game.

The only way to force combat or make a fleet stay is to drop a surface vessel. Most likely a DD.

thanks!
G

Subs: question about ability and tactics

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • Gallo Rojo

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@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.a) they shoot before the attacker, and if roll at 1, if they score attacking unit sinks before having the chance of attacking – if attacking unit is a BB she can take the torpedo hit and attack anyway, but if it’s a Cruiser she goes to the bottom right there without dropping a single deep charge.

This is true if there’s no attacking desrtoyer. If there is an attacking destroyer, the sub fires at the same time as the attacker(s) and the results are simultaneous.

yes, as I’ve stated, I was assuming no enemy destroyer attacking.
buy what does it means that “the sub fires at the same time”?
1.Attacker rolls
2.Defender select casualties
3.Defender moves casualties to casualty zone
4.Defender (subs) rolls
5.Attacker selects casualties
6.Everybody removes casualties.

that’s how it is, right?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.b) can submerge after attacker roll

If there’s no enemy destroyer, subs may submerge instead of rolling. This can be done in any combat round, including the first, so a sub can submerge instead of firing before the attacker fires if desired.

yes, I’m always assuming no enemy destroyer attacking at this point…
but again, just to clarify:

If an attacking fleet with no destroyer moves into a sz defended by a submarine… the submarine can just choose to submerge without fighting? I mean: nobody fires? not even a first round?
Example: four British Battleships moves into a sz where there is just one single German submarine to attack it (I know that British can ignore it, but say that they want to sink that annoying U-Boat)… and the German sub can chose to submerge avoiding even the first attack?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

If there’s a destroyer present, subs can’t do their sneak-attack (2.a doesn’t work), and they can’t submerge

True. They then fire at the same time as everything else.

again, by firing at the same time you mean the 6 steps mentioned above, right?

Yes.
?

Defender picks deaths

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • mwindianapolis

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@TG:

@Romulus:

Casualty system in A&A is part of the success of the game.
Simple enough for not being too much time consuming but at same time allows for cannon fodder and protection of the expensive units.

If we condsider the real battle attacker do not “know” who are they firing. WW2 was not fought with Napoleonic style battles where 2 armies lined up one in the face of the other.
In WW2 units are camouflaged, entrenched and hidden. When and if a unit is discovered by the enemy it can be target of fire, but attacker is not “selecting” the target among all the defending unit, only the one that has become visible.
So to some extent is the defender, positioning an moving its units, that allow the attacker to fire.

The more “correct” way of picking casualties is the one used in Battle of the Bulge, random selection, with the possibility of overkilling one unit and totally missing another.

If we can not have random casualties then we should stay with the “defender pick the unit to be removed” mechanism.

I am Moses Obama and I endorse this message.

Thank you!

I think that in Anniversary it is the right system. House rule or other ruleset may use different casualties removal system but it is the right thing for the “standard” game.
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Rules Question: Can defending fighters kill subs?

Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
• • • CraigBee

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Opps for got the link.

http://www.uboat.net/fates/losses/cause.htm

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