Sub Question

[Krieghund]

In your example, the sub can’t submerge at all, since there is an enemy destroyer present.  However, let’s assume that the attacking force consists of a battleship and a sub.  In LHTR, the attacker’s choice to retreat is made before the defender’s choice is made to submerge.  In the box rules, the choices are made simultaneously.  In either case, the defending sub may not disallow the attacker’s retreat by submerging.

[Amon-Sul]

@Krieghund:

In your example, the sub can’t submerge at all, since there is an enemy destroyer present.  However, let’s assume that the attacking force consists of a battleship and a sub.  In LHTR, the attacker’s choice to retreat is made before the defender’s choice is made to submerge.  In the box rules, the choices are made simultaneously.  In either case, the defending sub may not disallow the attacker’s retreat by submerging.

thank you for correcting me

and clearing things out

i get it now :wink:

[axis_roll]

@Krieghund:

In LHTR, the attacker’s choice to retreat is made before the defender’s choice is made to submerge.  In the box rules, the choices are made simultaneously.

how does THAT work?

Do you each write down your attack/withdraw perogative on paper and show it at the same time… I mean, how ELSE could you do it simultaneously?

[TimTheEnchanter]

It’s not so much that the OOB rules specify that they are similtaneous, it’s just one of the vague rules in the OOB that doesn’t specifically dictate the order so you’re left to wrangle it out with your opponent.  LHTR specifies the order as Attacker, then defending subs.  I just found out a few minutes ago in the Unbaltic thread that CSub’s rules say the sub submerges before the attacker, so it all depends on who you’re playing.

[Amon-Sul]

i see your point Axis roll

we should now who goes first

the attacker with his retreat or the defender with its sumbergance

or is it done simultaniously as you ve mentioned

anybody which can clarify this ˝frickin subs˝ issue  :? :?:lol:

[Lili Marleen]

LHTR: In step 7, combat continues unless one of the following conditions occurs (in this order of sequence):

Condition A) Attacker withdraws all attacking units;
Condition B) Defender withdraws all submarines by submerging, leaving no other defending units in play;
Condition C) Either or both sides lose all units.

So the attacker may withdraw before defending subs submerge.

Another nice tactic especially for Germany: If UK (or in same cases US) has a lot of BB (or even combined bombardement), doing attacks (opening fire) like 1 INF + many BB vs. GER or EEU. So GER normally loses a bunch of INFs every round with a value of over 8 IPCs. Then GER should build a SUB in BAL, in order to avoid this opening fire (sub-stalling). The BBs have to fight against the SUB an can´t do their opening fire for the battle in EEU or GER.
I don´t know whether this was already mentioned.

Bye,
Lili

[Krieghund]

@axis_roll:

@Krieghund:

In LHTR, the attacker’s choice to retreat is made before the defender’s choice is made to submerge.  In the box rules, the choices are made simultaneously.

how does THAT work?

Not very well.

@axis_roll:

Do you each write down your attack/withdraw perogative on paper and show it at the same time… I mean, how ELSE could you do it simultaneously?

That’s about the only way I can think of.  As TimTheEnchanter pointed out, this is an ambiguity in the rules.  There is no FAQ entry, and as far as I know no “official” ruling on this, and that’s why I answered the way I did.  My personal inclination would be to follow the “natural” order of things and let the attacker decide first, as in LHTR.  If anyone cares enough, I can ask Larry Harris, though I suspect his answer would agree with LHTR (for obvious reasons).  Just one more reason to use LHTR rather than the OOB rules.