The Afrika Korps

[Afrikakorps]

@WILD:

Afrikakorps just reading through your last couple post I think you can probably get Egypt on G3 if Italy opens up the Turkish straights (although I havn’t ran the numbers w/possible UK movement, builds and reinforcement). If the Germans fail to take it down, the Italians will finish it off on Ity3 (they must be at Alex Ity2 w/Luftwaffe backing them up). The one hitch that I can see (as remote as it might be) is that the French dd moves to the Red Sea on F1 (normal), and got really lucky and managed to sink your Italian cruiser/transports in sz99, survived the battle to block out the Germans (which is a possibility lol)

As the allies seeing you built that Romanian Major I will feel all warm and fuzzy inside as UK (no Sea Lion), but see it as a threat to the Russians. Egypt and Persia would be my focus for UK (which I realize could work right into your hands). Might build a minor IC on Egypt UK1, and/or a carrier or transport for S Africa?. I also sometimes build an an air base for Egypt which would force you to account for my scramble on G3 (ties up some of your German air power). The UK Med fleet would probably be gone (Taranto), but the UK Pac fleet would defiantly be heading that way to take its place (possibly joining a new carrier built in S Africa?). With most of your emphasis in the Black Sea G2/G3, Russia will get aggressive. If you split your starting ground forces to go north and south you will find more Russian resistance then you are used to, and a series of counter attacks. Leningrad won’t be a cake walk, and you may find yourself having to defend your own assets up there.

The thing is that the Western allies would love to get into a naval race with the Euro twins, because that means they aren’t building troops to take Moscow early on. Both London and Moscow will feel safe for at least the first 8-10 turns. As soon as you drop those expensive capital ships in the Black Sea G2/G3, the allies will make them a target (thinking they are trapped). The western allies will see this as a challenge and w/o much resistance in the Atlantic the US very well may build up fleet in DC, which will end up being the Spanish Beach Head after the Turkish assault. Don’t think the Euro axis can defend a landing in Spain (Germany would have to kill off the 6 free Spaniards in the 3rd turn if the Japanese attack J3) and push into Northern Africa, Middle East and Southern/Northern Russia all at the same time.

Interesting take though, imagine if the Allies were planing a neutral crush as well lol

Great you see it. Germany will have a tactical in Rome so I can sacrifice the sub and the tactical when France get lucky and two hits.

Yes thats de he thing, the UK thinks: yes he is all Russia and might invests in Cairo. At the other hand Russia thimks oh shit, he comes for me, and buys + plays with defensive mindset. Second turn can still be Russiam focused. Maybe UK builds another factory in Iran. Now I2 I play my trump cart with Turkey, and G3 I take unsuspected Egypt (that I weakened with I2 Africa attack). In the meantime 3 tanks and 4 mech from the Afrika Korps roll in the ME. Both fleet + armour can take Iran next turn, eliminating the UK while possibly giving me two more production zones against Russia.

Yes Russia will have easier time at the beginning. However I hope by my first 2 buys he will think and play defensive (therefore lacking counter-attack builds and options). Especially with the fleet in SZ100, he is not able to hold it, so might withdrawn to Stalingrad or Moscow.

Leningrad is difficult, especially because of Sweden crush. Therefore the Baltic Fleet buy, to get those troops to Leningrad G4 after they crushed Sweden G3.

[WILD BILL]

If the french dd gets to sz 99 on Fr2 and survives you can’t use the German 100 fleet to hit Egypt period  (French dd is in the path). Yea you can easily kill the French dd on Germany’s turn, but you can’t move past the French dd in the combat move phase to get to Egypt. This would delay your attack on Egypt for a turn maybe allowing the UK some breathing room.

I think that the Russians will believe Germany is gunning for them if you drop an IC (major or minor) on Romania, however UK will be aggressive in her builds. I also think the Reds would still build some art for Ukraine R1. After your G2 naval purchase they will see it kinda bitter sweet because you could have dropped a bunch of art and marched straight for Moscow. Now they see it as a ploy to capture Ukraine and/or Caucasus quickly through the Black Sea. R2 they probably retreat to Braynsk and Vologograd for a counter attack being you would only be landing 6 units max w/o air cover (3 transports). After the Italians attack Turkey and the Germans leave the Black Sea the Russians will be more aggressive in their buys.

Yea I think that the axis have a good chance to get Egypt on the 3rd turn. I also believe that the amount of income spent on the major IC and fleet the first 3 turns will cause the Germans to stall out once they  have to deal with the US shuck-shuck to Spain, and the angry Red Bear from the east.

[Afrikakorps]

You are right that the USA will using the Spanish beachhead and Russia will have enough forces to either counter-attack or at least not be being crushed yet.

However by killing the UK in the Middle East and taking over both the gold as the oil (it does not matter that Caucasus is skirmishes instead of absolute control around this time) you have changed the situation for the Axis drasticly.

Germany is a juggernout with 70/80+ IPC and two strong strategic fleets difficult to snipe with bombers. Italy has its NO’s and therefore very healthy, able to defend Italy on its own and maybe even strong enough to man Fort Europa, allowing Germany to focus on the offense only. I do not need Spain retaken every turn, I can even lose France if I must. It will not matter, I will have the IPC to spawn infantry and artillery in Western Germany against UK/USA and Romania against Russia.

Normally you need to have a clear advantage against Russia in G4, because if you don’t, the Western Allies come and break you down. You only have enough IPC to focus on 1 side at a time. My suggestion is that when you captured the oil and gold, this is not the case anymore. You can take it steady but slowly, as your internal logistics and economy is very well organized.

PS. Ah I see what you mean with the French! Yes indeed they must not be allowed to flee in F1 to block in F2 to Italy.

[Afrikakorps]

Also, the current plan and build assumes the highest possible reinforcements and focus of the UK in the Middle East and Egypt. It assumes the Toronto attack. All other options will benefit me and I will be able to devote less to the UK there and more to Russia. Keep in mind that Japan will threaten India from its first turn, so it is unlikely that the Indian airplanes come to the Middle East.

Then more personal based. We have never done a Neutral Crush so early and it is very rare, so my opponents will be deceived and surprised this first time I use the strategy. Secondly, I have punished them several times of not defending London, so sort of auto-buy has become the fighter and 6 inf give me 1more turn

[Maxiheimer]

Hi Africakorps,

I have followed this thread with great enthusiasm, and think its great when somebody tries to re-think the way this game is played.
I would really like to give this strat a go my self.
Is the game plan in your initial post updated according to all the input other players have responded with?

[Afrikakorps]

@Maxiheimer:

Hi Africakorps,

I have followed this thread with great enthusiasm, and think its great when somebody tries to re-think the way this game is played.
I would really like to give this strat a go my self.
Is the game plan in your initial post updated according to all the input other players have responded with?

Great! I also can not wait to finally test it out myself.

No not yet, I will update it the following days. Now it is still the old version, although the theory has remained the same.

[Omega1759]

@Afrikakorps:

You are right that the USA will using the Spanish beachhead and Russia will have enough forces to either counter-attack or at least not be being crushed yet.

However by killing the UK in the Middle East and taking over both the gold as the oil (it does not matter that Caucasus is skirmishes instead of absolute control around this time) you have changed the situation for the Axis drasticly.

Germany is a juggernout with 70/80+ IPC and two strong strategic fleets difficult to snipe with bombers. Italy has its NO’s and therefore very healthy, able to defend Italy on its own and maybe even strong enough to man Fort Europa, allowing Germany to focus on the offense only. I do not need Spain retaken every turn, I can even lose France if I must. It will not matter, I will have the IPC to spawn infantry and artillery in Western Germany against UK/USA and Romania against Russia.

Normally you need to have a clear advantage against Russia in G4, because if you don’t, the Western Allies come and break you down. You only have enough IPC to focus on 1 side at a time. My suggestion is that when you captured the oil and gold, this is not the case anymore. You can take it steady but slowly, as your internal logistics and economy is very well organized.

PS. Ah I see what you mean with the French! Yes indeed they must not be allowed to flee in F1 to block in F2 to Italy.

You can achieve the income with the Germans without attacking through Turkey. If you can force Russians to retreat from Bryansk as expected, you’ll be in Volgorad/Caucasus in no time.

[simon33]

That’s my problem with the idea too. You can achieve the same things, a few turns later, without the real problem of turning the neutrals against you.

[Afrikakorps]

Is this really true? Imagine turn 6 that Germany has Caucasus in Russia Crush

Germany has around +75 with Afrika Korps
Germany has around +53 with Russia Crush

Italy has around +20 with Afrika Korps
Italy has around +3 with Russia Crush

Germany + Italy have around +95 with Afrika Korps
Germany + Italy have arouns +56 with Russia Crush

Nearly twice as much!

Yes, you have to kill a lot more non-Allied infantry to achieve this, but you can achieve this nonetheless (if it works). Besides that, you have your 7th VC, so when you take Moscow you win the game. Around the time that you take Moscow with Russia Crush you face a heavily reinforced Middle East and possibly being supported by the USA.

The only thing that gives me difficulties is Spain! It is absolutely not a place where I want to send initial troops to take it G3, Italy is to weak to do it after Turkey I3 and nothing stops the UK or USA from taking it turn 3 when I want to do India Crush J4.

There is one big upside though, I personally think Spain is a trap for the Allies. Nothing within reach of importance and enormour production output for the Axis to defend against it. Much better USA focuses on holding / expanding Spain, than infesting the Med, amphibious assault on Rome or Egypt and convoying Italy to death. After all, Spain can maximally just produce 3 units + landing troops of which 1 infantry per transport.

I do find my France attack risky, with only 7 infantry, 3 artillery and 6 tanks? With the Romanian buy the UK might full scramble so need all Luftwaffe. I might send in the German Tactical? Do you think it is enough?

[Omega1759]

@Afrikakorps:

Is this really true? Imagine turn 6 that Germany has Caucasus in Russia Crush

Germany has around +75 with Afrika Korps
Germany has around +53 with Russia Crush

Italy has around +20 with Afrika Korps
Italy has around +3 with Russia Crush

Germany + Italy have around +95 with Afrika Korps
Germany + Italy have arouns +56 with Russia Crush

Nearly twice as much!

Yes, you have to kill a lot more non-Allied infantry to achieve this, but you can achieve this nonetheless (if it works). Besides that, you have your 7th VC, so when you take Moscow you win the game. Around the time that you take Moscow with Russia Crush you face a heavily reinforced Middle East and possibly being supported by the USA.

The only thing that gives me difficulties is Spain! It is absolutely not a place where I want to send initial troops to take it G3, Italy is to weak to do it after Turkey I3 and nothing stops the UK or USA from taking it turn 3 when I want to do India Crush J4.

There is one big upside though, I personally think Spain is a trap for the Allies. Nothing within reach of importance and enormour production output for the Axis to defend against it. Much better USA focuses on holding / expanding Spain, than infesting the Med, amphibious assault on Rome or Egypt and convoying Italy to death. After all, Spain can maximally just produce 3 units + landing troops of which 1 infantry per transport.

I do find my France attack risky, with only 7 infantry, 3 artillery and 6 tanks? With the Romanian buy the UK might full scramble so need all Luftwaffe. I might send in the German Tactical? Do you think it is enough?

Do you want to try your strategy? I’ll take allies and we’ll see how it goes.

[PainState]

@Afrikakorps:

Afrika Korps focuses on getting Egypt and Southern Russia fast because of the $$.

I like how you talk in the 3rd person about your plan….reminds me of the Rock.

[Afrikakorps]

@Omega1759:

@Afrikakorps:

Is this really true? Imagine turn 6 that Germany has Caucasus in Russia Crush

Germany has around +75 with Afrika Korps
Germany has around +53 with Russia Crush

Italy has around +20 with Afrika Korps
Italy has around +3 with Russia Crush

Germany + Italy have around +95 with Afrika Korps
Germany + Italy have arouns +56 with Russia Crush

Nearly twice as much!

Yes, you have to kill a lot more non-Allied infantry to achieve this, but you can achieve this nonetheless (if it works). Besides that, you have your 7th VC, so when you take Moscow you win the game. Around the time that you take Moscow with Russia Crush you face a heavily reinforced Middle East and possibly being supported by the USA.

The only thing that gives me difficulties is Spain! It is absolutely not a place where I want to send initial troops to take it G3, Italy is to weak to do it after Turkey I3 and nothing stops the UK or USA from taking it turn 3 when I want to do India Crush J4.

There is one big upside though, I personally think Spain is a trap for the Allies. Nothing within reach of importance and enormour production output for the Axis to defend against it. Much better USA focuses on holding / expanding Spain, than infesting the Med, amphibious assault on Rome or Egypt and convoying Italy to death. After all, Spain can maximally just produce 3 units + landing troops of which 1 infantry per transport.

I do find my France attack risky, with only 7 infantry, 3 artillery and 6 tanks? With the Romanian buy the UK might full scramble so need all Luftwaffe. I might send in the German Tactical? Do you think it is enough?

Do you want to try your strategy? I’ll take allies and we’ll see how it goes.

Yes love to, but travelling until end March currently and last time I tried to play online it was frustrating and could not figure it out yet.

[Omega1759]

Ok. You’re spending quite a bit of time thinking and writing, might as well play if you want to prove your point.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I would play a friendly game of Afrika Korps plan if somebody else wants to try it out.  I am fine playing either side.

[Afrikakorps]

General Hand Grenade made an excellent video about the strategy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxSfedTpnbI

Cool the Afrika Korps is still kicking ass!

[squirecam]

@afrikakorps said in The Afrika Korps:

General Hand Grenade made an excellent video about the strategy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxSfedTpnbI

Cool the Afrika Korps is still kicking ass!

If you are going with a middle east strategy then I think the best way is to use Japan to force the US into building in the pacific. This allows the axis to take africa without the neutrals or if so, with less risk as US cant get Spain easily.

[Argothair]

@squirecam I’m late to this thread, but what’s the importance of taking Sweden before you take Turkey? Wouldn’t it be better to just let Sweden be for a turn? If you’re building a second carrier to hold the Baltic and putting pressure on Leningrad, it’s quite hard for the Allies to get any troops into Sweden; Sweden doesn’t have a coastline on the White Sea. I’d much rather risk the Allies getting control of Sweden around turn 6 than risk having the Russians reinforce Turkey on turn 4. If you lose Sweden it creates moderate economic problems later in the game; if you lose Turkey the entire strategy falls apart.

[squirecam]

@argothair said in The Afrika Korps:

@squirecam I’m late to this thread, but what’s the importance of taking Sweden before you take Turkey? Wouldn’t it be better to just let Sweden be for a turn? If you’re building a second carrier to hold the Baltic and putting pressure on Leningrad, it’s quite hard for the Allies to get any troops into Sweden; Sweden doesn’t have a coastline on the White Sea. I’d much rather risk the Allies getting control of Sweden around turn 6 than risk having the Russians reinforce Turkey on turn 4. If you lose Sweden it creates moderate economic problems later in the game; if you lose Turkey the entire strategy falls apart.

If I were to attack the neutrals then I would be planning it from the start, or at least planning that I might be. Which means I’d be planning on taking all 3 neutrals on the same turn.

Let’s say G4. In that case, Italy would attack USSR I3. Germany would not declare war but simply reinforce the Italy territory. Then Germany takes all 3 neutrals so that it keeps the bonuses, both for Sweden and not attacking USSR.

Italy should have troops in Greece to follow Germany into Turkey. If the USSR had too many forces to somehow threaten Turkey then you wouldnt attack the neutrals but would move into Ukraine.

All of this depends upon Germany supporting Italy from the start. Which is why attacking the neutrals needs to be somewhat planned instead of a spur of the moment idea.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@squirecam have you done this strategy in a play-by-forum match before?

[squirecam]

@arthur-bomber-harris said in The Afrika Korps:

@squirecam have you done this strategy in a play-by-forum match before?

Yes. My typical opening is purchase of the German fleet (carrier either with transports or sub/des) and moving J1 fleet to Caroline Islands.

This doesnt mean I’m moving into the med with the fleet, or intent on attacking the neutrals, or that I won’t attack J2 into the money Islands. It’s simply a round 1 placement that allows me options and the knowledge of what the allies are doing before I strike.

If you attack J1 the allies know where you are going and that India is the target. India can still be the target from my placement but so can Australia or Hawaii.

Likewise I can have options for the med or a sea lion or attack back into Lenningrad.