Honestly, and no offense to you classic strategy folks, but I really see no need to augment the Germany navy. I see a lot of strategic arguements AGAINST augmenting the German fleet, though.
For instance. If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers. Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)
Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway. The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe. But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.
On the flip side, with just a bid of 2 IPC to Germany, you are making 14 Infantry. That’s nearly double what Russia is putting down in Round 1, and added to your 8 armor you start with, is a significant punch to push on Russia early. Or, if you don’t have a build, 12 Infantry and 1 Artillery works nearly as well. Still 13 Units almost double Russia’s output that round (if they went all infantry, which I hardly see, so you most likely did double their unit production) and fairly safe.
After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks. It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean. That’s 3 to 5 rounds you have to maul Russia and keep her in the 150 IPC range on unit count while keeping the German unit count up in the upper 200s lower 300s. (Yes, roughly 2:1 IPC army values in your favor. Remember, I advocate a 3:1 ration if at all possible, but we’re talking 3 to 5 rounds, not a lot of time to get up to speed unless you’re NoMercy who, for some reason, whenever he plays me is capable of getting Germany to 50 IPC in 1 round, without cheating. :P )
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
Well it can’t be that much of a surprise - what with building 5 more TRNs on US 4…
Hans: Vy do yoo tink de Yankees bild soo many boots?
Frans: Ich don’t knoh. Vielleicht zey ah havink yacht races?
Hans: Ja das ist probably was es ist, Ja.
(conversation ends in deluge of Allied bombs and bullets…)
Also, that’s what I HOPE the US will do - CC may also decide to leave the British 1st Army out to dry and pursue other adventures… :(
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
I don’t understand your objection. I said it would take between 3 and 5 rounds for the Americans and British to get up to full speed and then you said you could do it faster and that faster pace is in 5 rounds?
Faster would imply you can set up an effective invasion force in 1 or 2 rounds and that, without a bid to be the allies, is impossible to my knowledge.
Taking and holding WEU is a little beyond “getting up to speed”, that’s all.
For instance. If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers. Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)
Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway. The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe. But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.
The single most common outcome of 2 Fig, 1 BMR vs. an unreinforced Baltic fleet is UK winning with 1 Fig and the bomber surviving. Though if Germany does not submerge the subs, taking them as casualties instead, he has a pretty good chance of nailing the 2nd fighter. But in any case, the Bomber survives 65%-70% of the time, so it’s not like the UK is down ALL its planes after the attack in most cases. And with the Baltic navy sunk, both the US and UK can start strong landings in Europe sooner, which is more valuable to the Allies than a couple of UK fighters.
After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks. It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean.Â
I’m not bringing the Indian Ocean navy up if I’m UK. That navy’s job is to hinder Japan as much as it can until it dies, and/or to help retake Egypt from Germany.Â
In most games where germany does not reinforce the Baltic fleet at all and I sink it on UK1, UK is landing three TRNs of stuff in Norway on UK2, 3-4 TRNs of stuff somewhere in Europe on UK3, and 4 TRNs of stuff from UK4 onward.  And since the UK and US combined dumped 4 TRNs of stuff in Algeria on UK1/US1, Africa generally stays in UK hands.
@Imperious:
details?
What turn?
What was used?
Did you get to shuck stuff to russia? did that work in your favor?
I did get to “shuck” stuff at russia which was nice, and the extra tranport helped infantry get online against russia alittle earlier. but I think a detroyer and a tranport would have had the same effect plus given me 6 IPC’s extra…sooo
I was destroyed on turn 2 or 3. i forget. I’ll look back at my notes.
a good german navy is a navy that destroys at least one RAF piece before it goes down.
What if you moved the baltic fleet to sz 7. UK can either do an all out attack with air and fleet, attack with just fleet or air, or just leave it alone (very doubtful). US can also bomb later if its worth it. The point being, this gets my fleet moving. Now if the “Average” result happens, then I pry took a fig and or Transport with me and I’m destroyed. Not too big of a difference than before, but if things go well for me than I have a real chance of unifying the fleet. If the fleet is unified, then I’d add maybe a destroyer and sub or something. Something to make the Allies not want to park in sz 12. Helps keep Afrika Deutschlands. And on the flip side, if my fleet gets destroyed, nothing new happend. If UK uses their fleet then I probably will get 1 trn and keep them from hitting Norway or Algeria first round anyways. I don’t use my transport that much either.
In conclusion, if things go well, then fleet unification and make some modest Navy buys.
If things go to crap, I say screw it and stay with my normal German strategy. For some reason, whenever I play, it always gets destroyed on UK 1 anyways. If its gonna be attacked, why not atleast give it some hope if it survives.
UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.
@Imperious:
UK is blocking at SZ#6… if the baltic fleet stayed in the Baltic for G2, then UK and USA catch up because your then dealing with 2 full turns of builds… Each turn the Allies get stronger, while the axis only bought the g1 fleet buys and spent 40 IPC (1 CV and 3 AP). Uk just gets in position to exchange AND gets the ability to kill one of your stacks at its leasure once the medd fleet moves out. They cant combine on the same turn of UK is in SZ#6 unless the baltic fleet decided to attack. If they stay put then UK and USA attacks anything moving out of the medd.
Not sure if you are replying to me, but if you are, Im suggesting you move out first turn thus UK is not blocking you and that you do not buy unless either you are not attacked or get lucky with the dice.
are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?
are you better off just buying infantry to defend your shore rather then buy navy?
That depends on the board position.
If the Allies have kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, newly produced German navy just dies, so infantry is the ONLY way to go.
If the Alllies haven’t kicked Germany’s ass in the Atlantic already, Germany can use its navy in various ways.
It’s not a matter of “infantry > destroyers zomg lolz” or “subs >> tanks HAHAHA”. Good decisions depend on the board position!
Would somebody be interested in writing an article for the main website about the German aircraft carrier purchase on turn 1 strategy?
Just looking for an article of any length that explains how-to, the benefits, the drawbacks, and when to use it and when not.
Thanks.
Would somebody be interested in writing an article for the main website about the German aircraft carrier purchase on turn 1 strategy?
Just looking for an article of any length that explains how-to, the benefits, the drawbacks, and when to use it and when not.
Thanks.
How to build: Well, you have these pieces of paper called “industrial production certificates” that you trade in to build units. These certificates are like money, see. But you can’t pay your rent with them, and most hookers won’t take them.
Benefits: Protect the German Baltic fleet. If Germany builds nothing in the Baltic, UK can send 2 fighters and a bomber to blow up Germany’s 2 subs, 1 transport, and 1 destroyer.
Drawbacks: You have less ground units produced in Germany that can threaten the Russian front on subsequent turns. The carrier can’t do much other than protect the Baltic fleet, and give German fighters a bit of extra effective attack range.
When to use it: When you’re feeling defend-y.
When not to use it: When you’re feeling attack-y.
Um, okay, that’s a good start. Why is it good that the German boats don’t get blown up. Basically, in the article you have to assume that the reader has played Axis & Allies maybe 5-10 times. Enough to understand the game and a few basic strategies but not enough to have considered this strategy.
Um, okay, that’s a good start. Why is it good that the German boats don’t get blown up. Basically, in the article you have to assume that the reader has played Axis & Allies maybe 5-10 times. Enough to understand the game and a few basic strategies but not enough to have considered this strategy.
I assume that the article is to use out of the box rules AND the FAQ that’s available on the Wizards site. (so OOB/FAQ). Also, I assume no preplaced bid.
Are these assumptions correct?
Any other things you want in the article?
Any other volunteers? (peering around)
It would be up to the person writing the article but yes. I think those criteria would be a good starting point. Maybe at the end of the article could be a quick mention of how things would change with a bid and also if you are using LHTR 1.3 instead of the OOB rules.
