Its also much safer to just play defense than to take a huge risk with the fleet unification idea… Its only pertinent value is the threat turn after turn to come out, while Id rather be better off in the mean time shucking men to Moscow.
I hate this idea that Germany goes after UK first rather than the Soviets, so to keep the fleet in being i really am going after russia and threats on UK. Kinda of a 2 for 1 deal.
If the Allies try and tek me out they will suffer horrible loses which essentially does the a better job of exchanging the pieces then a german confrontation with UK directly.
And of course the las tmatter with the baltic Fleet…
So long as it lives, any threat by UK on Germany is a slow-motion threat that has to come via either Western, or from Karelia. Slow motion threats allow Germany to moilize a LOT of force for defense and interdict the enemy as they advance. Also, if Germany still has their AF and Baltic Fleet and UK tries to come in via Western, Germany can choose to take out the UK Fleet with the Baltic Fleet plus AF… IF UK has lost a lot of income so that fleet replacement would be a very slow process this can be devastating to the Allies and effectively removes 1 Ally from the game for several turns.
Remember, it is not just the Allies choosing KGF or KJF. The Axis has probably chosen KRF, and so long as the Germans can block major quick developing threats from UK, then their focus can be much stronger on Russia.
When playing as Germany I have never really focused on a navy. Like switch said the Baltic navy is a great blockade for UK. However as UK if Germany doesn’t make any additions to the Baltic I am happy.
Yea Thats an important point Switch…
That Baltic fleet is like a get out of jail card in case the Moscow assault is in its closing stages… the German player has another trick to pull even if by Leaving the Baltic he will often lose more than he gained… but he exchanges that last tempo to finish off Moscow and keep the French landings away.
I have more and more swinged in Favor of Getting a nice German Navy the reasons are as follows. (if it´s a KGF of course)
1.UK/US assult on Western is Greatly slowed (if i build atleast 1 Naval unit/turn), it won´t happen untill Turn 6 atleast, 10+ if i kamikaze attack it with Fleet+AF.
2. Japan Has free reign in the East.
3. I can threathen UK, and transport Infs to the Russian front quickley.
And the best part is that Russia doesn´t have the strength to break germany alone, so germany sits tight in easter untill Japan marches on Moscow, then a 1-2 hit on Moscow and it´s all rosy…  :wink:
I always just aim to maintain witht he german navy. simply rebuilding what is lost. Until Russia is under control I think navy is a waste of money.
@Imperious:
Its also much safer to just play defense than to take a huge risk with the fleet unification idea… Its only pertinent value is the threat turn after turn to come out, while Id rather be better off in the mean time shucking men to Moscow.
I hate this idea that Germany goes after UK first rather than the Soviets, so to keep the fleet in being i really am going after russia and threats on UK. Kinda of a 2 for 1 deal.
If the Allies try and tek me out they will suffer horrible loses which essentially does the a better job of exchanging the pieces then a german confrontation with UK directly.
fully agree in every way.
Thank you sir.
@Imperious:
Thank you sir.
may I have another?
As I mentioned in another thread…
My 1 AC, 1 TRN purchase on G1 placed in SZ14 has worked very nicely for me in my current game (UK is in the mid teens income).
Of course, the US went into the Pacific in force, so not a really valid test for its value in a full KGF…
I tried the ac and transport in my game and my opponent did a KGF strategy. My navy was destroyed under a wave of destroyers and fighters. Although there were numerous lucky rolls but I should have still lost.
details?
What turn?
What was used?
Did you get to shuck stuff to russia? did that work in your favor?
I think what IL is really saying is details man, give us details! Ain’t that right IL? :wink: :-D hehehe
Honestly, and no offense to you classic strategy folks, but I really see no need to augment the Germany navy. I see a lot of strategic arguements AGAINST augmenting the German fleet, though.
For instance. If you do not purchase a navy, England is extremely tempted to hit SZ 5, but all they have are expensive fighters and bombers. Those are fighters and bombers they will NOT have after the battle and will either have to rebuild (tough if they are down Africa) or do without (more likely, assuming Africa is gone.)
Meanwhile, Germany’s out a couple of submarines and a destroyer they most likely never would have used anyway. The transport is a shame, since it does add flexibility to your troop movements in Europe. But even the loss of that vessel isn’t going to make or break you.
On the flip side, with just a bid of 2 IPC to Germany, you are making 14 Infantry. That’s nearly double what Russia is putting down in Round 1, and added to your 8 armor you start with, is a significant punch to push on Russia early. Or, if you don’t have a build, 12 Infantry and 1 Artillery works nearly as well. Still 13 Units almost double Russia’s output that round (if they went all infantry, which I hardly see, so you most likely did double their unit production) and fairly safe.
After all, it’s going to take America 3 to 5 rounds to set up her infantry stacks. It will take England 3 to 5 rounds to get up to optimum production as well, assuming she wants to bring the fleet up from the Indian Ocean. That’s 3 to 5 rounds you have to maul Russia and keep her in the 150 IPC range on unit count while keeping the German unit count up in the upper 200s lower 300s. (Yes, roughly 2:1 IPC army values in your favor. Remember, I advocate a 3:1 ration if at all possible, but we’re talking 3 to 5 rounds, not a lot of time to get up to speed unless you’re NoMercy who, for some reason, whenever he plays me is capable of getting Germany to 50 IPC in 1 round, without cheating. :P )
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
Gee, Frood, thanks for the free preview of the U.S.'s turn. :-D (Too bad I didn’t check this before turning in Japan’s fifth turn. :|)
And Switch, umm, why do you think the US went KJF when it saw all that Germany Navy? :lol: Maybe 'cause Germany was sucking wind for a few rounds?!
Well it can’t be that much of a surprise - what with building 5 more TRNs on US 4…
Hans: Vy do yoo tink de Yankees bild soo many boots?
Frans: Ich don’t knoh. Vielleicht zey ah havink yacht races?
Hans: Ja das ist probably was es ist, Ja.
(conversation ends in deluge of Allied bombs and bullets…)
Also, that’s what I HOPE the US will do - CC may also decide to leave the British 1st Army out to dry and pursue other adventures… :(
@froodster:
It doesn’t have to take UK/US that long - me and CC are playing a team game right now where UK has taken WEU w/ 3 Inf 6 Arm in UK 5, and US will be landing 5 Arm 5 Inf and perhaps a few Ftrs to reinforce.
So that’s what UK/US can do in 5 rounds.
I don’t understand your objection. I said it would take between 3 and 5 rounds for the Americans and British to get up to full speed and then you said you could do it faster and that faster pace is in 5 rounds?
Faster would imply you can set up an effective invasion force in 1 or 2 rounds and that, without a bid to be the allies, is impossible to my knowledge.
Taking and holding WEU is a little beyond “getting up to speed”, that’s all.
