Conservative Germany

@axis_roll:

Thanks for clarifying the definition of ‘conservative’ for this thread.

I can see how this is a good way to play for Germany, especially in games that use N.O.s.

France is an 11 IPC territory.  That’s a significant enough number to cause a strategy to be built around holding it and not trading it with the allies.

If Britain captures France, it results in a 16 IPC gain by the Allies even if Germany recaptures it.

Of which, if you really wish to protect France, you can play Conservative Italy instead.  Italy grabs Egypt and its NOs, but beyond that, it protects France and Algeria from allied incursions by dumping Infantry into them relentlessly.

Then my standard opening is “conservative” since all battles have an 80% chance or better to win for Germany

That is: 
2 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Ukraine
2 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to East Poland
3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Baltic States
3 Inf, Art, 4 Fig to Karelia
2 Sub, Bmb to SZ 2
3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Egypt (retreat all but the Inf/Arm by transport when you want too, or duke it out forever.)

No undue risks there and it nets you all 3 National Objectives and a seriously weakened English Empire in Africa/North Atlantic. (PS: Sub to SZ 6 is a good idea too, but it’s 50/50 and might be classified as an undue risk.)

@Cmdr:

Then my standard opening is “conservative” since all battles have an 80% chance or better to win for Germany

That is: 
2 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Ukraine
2 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to East Poland
3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Baltic States
3 Inf, Art, 4 Fig to Karelia
2 Sub, Bmb to SZ 2
3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm to Egypt (retreat all but the Inf/Arm by transport when you want too, or duke it out forever.)

No undue risks there and it nets you all 3 National Objectives and a seriously weakened English Empire in Africa/North Atlantic. (PS: Sub to SZ 6 is a good idea too, but it’s 50/50 and might be classified as an undue risk.)

The only attacks in that Plan which aren’t conservative are the ones on Karelia and Egypt.  Karelia will probably cost you 1, maybe even 2 Fighters, and you will not have enough survivors to hold it. Egypt would also qualify, seeing  as you have a mere 30% chance of actually winning, though you will whittle down the forces enough that Italy will finish them even if it is reinforced by Jordan.

Here is an example of a more Conservative approach:
3 Inf, 1 Art, 1 Fighter to Ukraine
1 Inf, 6 Arm to East Poland
5 Inf, 2 Art, to Baltic States
2 Fighter,1 Sub to SZ 2
3 Inf, Art, 2 Arm, 1 Bmb to Egypt
1 Sub retreats to Baltic Sea to join up with other.

The following turn, you hit Karelia with enough force to capture it and keep it, then trade East Poland, Baltic States, and Ukraine as you see fit.

yeah karelia can be taken but not held ing G2 anyway ( with odds that allow a bad first round of rolling ;) whereas G1 Karleia if the first round goes bad, Germany is in real bad shape…

high risk high gain move ;)

About Karelia, I have already proven a year ago that you can take and hold it from G1.

The trick is to keep the 2 tanks in poland in reserve so that when you break the baltic states, you can move the 2 tanks trough to Karelia as reinforcement in the non-combat phase.

A44 -

I tried this strategy for my most recent game with a few variations.  I liked it a lot, but Germany still starts on mostly the back foot.  The difficulty is that UK brings a naval landing (doable since you leave two transports alive) at the same time Russia takes one or more territories in UK1 and Rus1.  I used the bombers and fighters to destroy the UK navy (so they couldn’t reinforce NWE) but had to leave NWE and Russia alone. Russia was able to shore up EPoland and Baltic States, eventually punching through to Bul with a stack of infantry and artillery.  This has made things increasingly difficult.  They take Norway/Finland and trade one of my states for their NO.

On the plus side, the UK navy (specifically the transports) is gone, so you’re able to focus on Russia, but there just aren’t quite enough infantry as Russia’s income matches/exceeds yours with their start.

As the game hasn’t finished yet, we’ll see how it turns out, heavy bombing has also put a dent in Germany’s infantry making  machine, but that has left Japan and Italy to grow big.  That may be the deciding factor.

I often like the idea of keeping the german transport, if for no other reason than to use it as an extra for Italy.  Problem is logistics…

I think on turn 1, a better German plane buy is the bomber over the ftr.

Range to hit sz8, sz12 or even transjordan if UK abandons and falls back.
UK can not just leave 1 inf in egypt as italy could easily clear that would allow tank blitz
This forces UK to leave egypt open so UK has to leave full force into TRJ.
Now Italy can walk into egypt, buy a tpt and inf for a strong fleet that can move next turn.

You advocated a ftr and 7 inf
I propose 5 inf, art, bmr.

Germany doesn’t need the defense so early round 2 (me thinks), you have enough ftrs already, especially when not over stretching by using the subs as fodder (versus losing a ftr) in sz2 and sz12.

Yeah, if one is avoiding the G1 Egypt attack, then another bomber is a pretty decent buy for Germany.

If playing tech, then after stock-pilling infantry units every turn, one should be buying bombers as the opportunity arises.  This forces the UK to build more fleet defense, and with Germany rolling on Chart 1 when Paratroopers finally comes up, then Germany is sitting pretty.  Even when not playing with techs, infantry + bombers is not a bad purchase plan when playing Germany a little conservatively.

I’d rather go with a carrier over a bomber or a fighter, I think.  Gives me 2 more fighters that can hit SZ 2 coupled with the fighter and bomber in Norway, I would hope.

This assumes you attack SZ 2 with 2 submarines, fighter, bomber to rid England of that pesky Battleship.

@a44bigdog:

The only problem I see with that axis_roll is that Germany may be a touch short on Infantry. Also by purchasing the fighter it helps to offset any Germany may have lost in the combats on the first round. I really think either one is workable though.

I’d rather forgo 1 inf for the extra range.
But as you say, either one works.

A44 -

I like the idea of attacking SZ2, but I’m running out of fighters to clear the oceans.  What do you think about this opening G1?

Sub SZ7-> SZ2
Ft Nwy-> SZ2  (land in Nwy)
Bomb Ger ->SZ2 (land in Nwy)

Ft NwE -> SZ12 (land in Alg)
Sub SZ7 -> SZ12
Ft Ger -> SZ12 (Land in Alg)

Sub SZ5 -> SZ6
Cru SZ5 -> SZ6

1 Inf Fin 1 Inf Nwy (via Trans) -> BSt
Ftg Pol -> BSt (land in Nwy)
2 Inf Pol -> BSt

2 Arm, 3 Inf, 1 Art Bur -> Ukr
2 Arm, 2 Inf, 1 Art Pol -> EPl

NonCom -

1 Arm, 1 Inf Fra (via transport) -> Lib
1 Inf NWE -> Fra
2 Arm Cze -> Fra
2 Inf Ger -> Fra
1 Inf 1 Art Ger -> Pol
1 Arm Lib -> Alg

The reason I have two fighters landing in Nwy rather than Fra is to protect my bomber.  The Arm is to help protect Alg from an invasion from US.  Just in case they feel like taking a pot shot at my planes.  Doesn’t cost you anything.

Next turn the plan is to take Egypt with Germany, two planes from Alg, 1 Tank 1 Inf from Ukr (via transport if UK moves infantry from Trans Jordan), and everything from Lib. and tank from Alg.  Russia will probably take Baltic states, and unless they do it with everything (in which case I let them have it), I’d counter with whatever infantry I have left and my planes.

Regarding the game, the Axis managed to win (first time ever in our group).  Britain and US bombed Germany so it ended up only playing defense, but Japan and Italy gained momentum and managed to 1-2 Moscow from Caucuses while Japan kept the US at bay for just long enough.  Fun stuff.

I dont think you need to put the extra ftr in nwy.  Even if you lose one ftr in z2 you can always protect the bom with inf from Fin.  the UK has too many targets that it needs to take care of to try a risky air attack into Nwy.  With your opening they have to take out the cruiser in z5, the trn in z6, possibly leftover subs…  Only way you are vulnerable to a nwy attack is if you lose in z2 in which case you have bigger problems to worry about.

Great idea this worked out very well Germany only took a couple places in Africa and Kerouac and east Poland at this point I put an IC down in France and Europe became very hard nut to crack and then japan did it’s thing the America went KGF so japan did what ever it wanted and took India Australia and Hawaii by this point Italy had Stalingrad so it was over only place allies landed in Europe was Norway but I pushed them back into the sea didn’t hurt that Germany had 10 figs and 6 bombers most of the later rounds I will keep playing a consertive Germany tilli see it fail