Nuclear Tech

@Black_Elk Good luck! Let me know how it works out.

I’ve played some games where we roll for a free tech which seems like a good way to get tech into the game.  I’m a fan of this idea.

@toblerone77:

I’m just going to say something here. Excluding your math Baron. The whole point of this rule was to open up a way for SBR against ICs with a loose historical basis. The loose historical depiction of night bombing was to give the attacker a less risky SBR but the penalty was less risk=less reward.

Given the basic concept, I think it is viable. I liked the idea of night fighters but thought it best to drop them. That’s my POV. An SBR that drops interceptors/escort could simulate this simply.

I encourage everyone to post as they like. Personally I like the idea of simply eliminating escorts and interceptors for night raids and reducing AA fire 1@D12. Damage totals are halved. That’s just what I like.

Everyone else, carry on.

Hi Toblerone77,
I don’t know if you play 1942 second edition, but within the optional rule for SBR escort and interception it becomes viable to have such thing as StB playing a role as Night-fighter, because the odds are clearly different from G40 during the regular SBR with escort: all Fgs and StB A1 first strike, while Fg D2.

All you have to do to implement a 1942.2 Night bombing & Night Fighter HR is this when playing with escort and interception optional rule:

Day SBR damage on IC becomes 1D6+2/StB, instead of just D6.

During 1942.2 Night SBR, the damage becomes D6-1/StB (or D6+2 halved rounding down, if you prefer).

In addition, all attacking StBs and defending StB Night-fighters roll a regular A/D@1, same as G40 SBR escort and interception rule.

The AAA fire @1 in both cases, Day or Night SBRs.

These 2 things will make all the basics 1:1, StB vs Fg/StB Night Fg, balance.

Day SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage + 4.583 - casualty 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB
StB vs Fg+AAA,  damage + 4.977 - casualty 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

Night SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage +2.083 - casualty 2.0 = +.083 IPC damage/StB
StB vs StB NF+AAA, damage +3.736 - casualty 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

So, Night SBR is better when there is more than 1 Fg defending an IC, and it is still an even match for both sides (near 0 IPC) to throw 1 StB against a StB NightF.

But, if there is only 1 Fg on the IC, the Day SBR is still positively better (.2 vs .069).

In addition, there is less StB and money in 1942.2 compared to G40, so there is lesser chance that StBs presence will forbids any Night SBR.

To summarize the viable SBR tactics with this 1942.2 HR:

No Fgs on IC, go for Day-SBR 2 or more Fgs on IC, go for Night-SBR unless there is more than 1 Night-Fg for 1 StB raider. Keeping a 1 Fg + (1 StB :1 Fg) advantage for Day bombing is better. Or staying within the 1 StB and 1 Fg vs 2 Fgs is the lower limit, it is still viable around 0.00 IPC/StB run.
So, going 1:1 vs Day or Night is almost the same risks involved, but with less damage & casualty in Night SBR.

What do you think of this?

Now, Night Bombing can be viable in both games.

Here is the calculation basis for this 1942.2 Night bombing with Night Fgs House Rule:

OOB 1942.2: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.9 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 2.9 - 2 = +.9 IPC damage/StB

OOB 1942.2 SBR with D6 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+6) IPCs)/2= +3.5 IPCs) = 2.107 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs

Sum: 3.774 - 4.777 = - 1.0 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 HR damage D6+2 : 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 4.583 - 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 SBR HR with D6+2 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+2) + (6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 3.31 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs
Sum: 4.977 - 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

HR for 1942 with StB as Nightfighter interceptor all A1/D1 as in G40 interception rule, damage at D6-1:

1 StB A1 vs 1 StB D1 doing interception

StB roll /Fg roll / AAA roll

116= 6/216 1 StB killed by StB NF vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.78%
151= 5/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.31%
155= 25/216 no casualty vs 1 StB NF killed: 11.57%

516= 30/216 StB killed by StB NF: 13.89%
551= 25/216 StB killed by AAA: 11.57%
555= 125/216 both survived: 57.87%

Results:
69.44% * ((0+5) IPCs)/2= + 2.5 IPCs) = 1.736 IPCs
16.67% killing StBNFg *+12 IPCs = + 2.00 IPC
30.55% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 3.667 IPCs

Sum: 3.736 - 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

1942.2 HR damage D6-1: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 2.5 IPCs = 2.083 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: +2.083 - 2 = +.083 IPC damage/StB

1942.2, damage D6+2: 1 StB & 1 Fg A1 first strike doing Day-SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D2

StB+Fg rolls/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds   casualties

1/3636/361/6   = 36/7776      1 StB killed by AAA vs 2 Fgs : .5%
1/3636/365/6 = 180/7776      no casualty vs 2 Fgs : 2.3%

10/3612/361/6 = 120/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 1.5%
10/3612/365/6 = 600/7776    1 Fg  vs 1 Fg : 7.7%
10/3624/361/6=  240/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 3.1%
10/3624/365/6 = 1200/7776   no casualty vs 1 Fg : 15.4%

25/364/366/6   = 600/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty : 7.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776  1 Fg vs no casualty : 25.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776   no casualty at all : 25.7%

Results:
Bombard on IC: 76.8% * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 4.224 IPCs
Killing 2 Fgs: 2.8%+20 IPCs =   + 0.56 IPC
Killing 1 Fg: 27.7% +10 IPCs =  + 2.77 IPCs
Fg killed: 33.4%-10 IPCs =        - 3.34 IPCs
StB killed: 8.8%-12 IPCs =       - 1.056 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 14.4%*-22 IPCs = - 3.168 IPCs

Sum: 7.554 - 7.564 = - 0.01 IPCs damage/StB

ttt, discussion about tech over at AAMC.

you have to build bombers to carry paratroopers and you only carry one of them and that can only be dropped 2 spaces away from friendly forces. The bomber commitment alone precludes the issue of “flying shock armies from buck rogers”.  Unfortunately some feel that you should be able to build and use them w/o bombers and i know 100% that this is a broken game, however, the OOB is somewhat balanced.

but if you feel its not balanced you can impose a “training cost” of 1 or more IPC every time you drop airborne, paid to model training of these elite specialists. Also, limit the build of one airborne per turn ( example: if you build 3 bombers in a turn you only can use 1 additional airborne drop the turn following placement and 1 each following turn for the next 3 turns)

This would preclude the really stupid and impossible idea of Germany building lots of bombers and thinking they will have an immediate Sealion because they didn’t buy anything for 5 turns and all of a sudden spurged on bombers as some kind of trick.

@oztea:

Interesting Idea fighter commander, a re-worked tech system with a 3rd and 4th chart, only open to the axis or the allies respectively.

Ive been dabiling with a tech system that locks each country onto a tech tree. It doesnt have to roll for resarch, it just has to pay an R&D fee, as much as it wants each turn, to consistently recive tech.

For example, Germany: for each  3 IPCs germany devoted to R&D, place a tech counter on germany

2 tech counters - Advanced artillery, to represent 88’s
4 tech counters - Rockets, the V2
7 tech counters - Jet Fighers, the Me-109
and so forth

I havent fleshed it out yet, or even gotten anywhere near doing all the other nations.

mmmm personally I think that Wpns Development the general type of breakthru should be elective but the timing of the breakthru should be largely random rather than budgeted

but that’s me… :-D 
And I will confess: I also don’t like NAs unless there’s a reason beyond a strict replay of WW2 (e.g., no Japanese rockets or Russian marines etc.)

From the future AA50He project.

Tech Tree:
Procedure: Same as AA50 except you assign your researcher to one of the following three categories: Land, Sea or Air. Further, you can only assign up to one researcher per category at a time. Germany and USA can assign up to two researchers per category. All other OOB rules are in effect.

Research & Development
In this phase, you may attempt to develop improved military technology.  To do so, you buy researchers that give you a chance for a scientific breakthrough.  Each researcher token will grant you one die that provides a chance for a breakthrough.

Research & Development Sequence
1. Buy researcher tokens
2. Roll research dice
3. Roll breakthrough die
4. Mark development

Step 1: Buy Researcher Tokens
Each researcher token costs 5 IPC’s.  Buy as many as you wish, including none.

Step 2: Roll Research Dice
For each researcher you have, roll one die.

-Success: If you roll at least one “6”, you have successfully made a technological breakthrough.  Discard all your researcher tokens and continue to step 3.

-Failure: If you do not roll a “6”, your research has failed.  Keep all your researcher tokens and continue to the Purchase Units phase of the turn.

Step 3: Roll Breakthrough Die
If you rolled a “6” on any research die, choose one of the two breakthrough charts and roll a die to see which technological advance you get.  You can only receive one advance each turn.  If you have already received the same result on a previous turn, re-roll until you get a new technological advance.  Once you have received all the advances on a chart, you cannot gain any more advances from that chart.

Step 4: Mark Development
If your research was successful, place one of your national control markers inside the appropriate advancement box on the research & development chart.  Your development becomes effective immediately.

Any number of powers may develop the same technology, but powers cannot share their technology.

Land Technology:

Tier #1:
• War Bonds- add one die to IPC total each turn.
• Elite Armor- You can form elite armor forces by converting one tank each turn for 1 IPC or build one from scratch for 6 IPC attack at 4 and defend at 5, move 2
Tier #2:
• Improved Flak Battery’s- AA guns fire at planes at 2.
• IC Repair- (one IPC allocated removes two points of damage)
Tier #3:
• Underground factories- SBR hits count at ½ value rounded down.
• Heavy Artillery- Your artillery rolling a 1 can choose the land target on either attack or defense.

Sea Technology:

Tier #1:
• ASW- your fighters and bombers can now negate the submarines first strike on the second round, plus perform ASW search and attacks. They can also attack subs without having a Destroyer or Cruiser present.
• Shipyards- subs, transports, destroyers cost one less IPC, all other ships cost two less IPC.
Tier #2:
• Improved Carriers- if you pay 4 IPC per carrier they now take 2 hits, plus have a 3 fighter capacity. New Carriers of this type can also be created and they costing 4 IPC extra to purchase.
• Super Battleships- your existing battleships attack and defend at 5 and they always fire preemptively in combat each turn (loses removed before they fire back) for either attack or defense.
Tier #3:
• Super subs- Your subs now defend at 2 and attack at 3.
• AA cruisers: your cruisers get an AA roll if any planes attack hitting at 1 prior to the first round of combat. Each plane is rolled and if hit is removed before shooting back.

Air Technology:

Tier #1:
• Radar- any fighters you have defending and not under attack can assist adjacent territories prior to the start of combat rolls.
• Long Rang Air- fighters and bombers now move 2 extra spaces.
Tier #2:
• Heavy Bombers- roll one die= lost IPC, roll second die = damage to factories capacity to place new units.
• Rockets- Your antiaircraft guns are now rocket launchers. In addition to its normal combat function, during the strategic bombing raid step of your Conduct Combat phase each turn, each of your antiaircraft guns can make a single rocket attack against an enemy industrial complex within 3 spaces of it. This attack does 1d6 damage to that complex.
Tier #3:
• Jet Fighters- The attack value of your fighters is now 4 and the defense is 5, also they don’t get rolled at by defending AA guns.
• Atomic Bomb- one bomber per turn can perform one SBR run where the damage is permanent reduction in capacity to place units. The first turn this can be developed is turn 7. Prerequisite: Heavy Bombers technology.

Procedure: allocate researcher to develop a tier #1 technology in any of three categories. Once you have developed a technology you can choose one of the two choices. If you elect to develop further research in the same category and succeed, you may then either elect to choose a Tier #2 technology or pick something from a LOWER tier technology.
Eventually, you can get to a tier #3 technology and chose any lower tech.

Spies: These cost 10 IPC each and can be assigned in secret to any specific enemy player’s technology category (land, sea or air). If that player decides to develop a technology in this category and it succeeds, the spy may be revealed and the spy gets to roll obtaining technology on a roll of 4-6. Note: the Soviet player is the only player that can send spies to his own allies and they cost 5 IPC.

Counter Spy: Each player may buy a super spy which can be used to eliminate the enemy spy but this is also assigned to a specific technology category (land, sea or air) to any technologies that can be developed.

It all seems pretty fair to me except for maybe the Russian industrial technology. However, I’m not sure.