Japan Basic Strategies, Concepts and Ideas

Doesn’t mean I’d go out and buy 8 submarines a round for 10 rounds though.

But it does mean that they arent useless, which was your earlier position that drew the response. I believe it was something along the lines of ‘use them for toothpicks’ or ‘build anything but’ or ‘they are completely laughable’.

If you are having to build the early DDs and worrying about getting the DDs to your fleets then they are provoking a response. And they can continue to do that all game depending on circumstances. Yes, if someone drops 5 DDs on turn 2 or 3, its prolly time to stop making them.

There is a world of difference between ‘useless, never build more than one or two’ and ‘build 8 a round for 10 rounds’. Somewhere in that difference is their true utility and it will vary from game to game. They are more situational units than some, but that doesnt mean that they cant be extremely useful in the right game conditions. I’d say I build 1 or 2 many games (just to force the DDs), but I rarely build a pile. In the right situation, they can be game-breakers or at the very least, keep your opponent off balance for a round or two. In the wrong situation, continuing to build them can be folly.

I’d like to try and maintain a sub fleet of between 6 and 12 subs they work well for me.
Pity I couldn’t try that strategy against you sometime Jen as I might be able to show you how it can work or vice versa. I’ve read a lot of your posts and you are quite knowledgeable but I do have to disagree with you here. Cheers!

The sad thing is, until triplea a supports the new sub rules, I won’t be able to test this out :) I like the live action playing of triplea. I should just offer to code it for them or something heh. Does anyone know if the engine is being modified for anniv? I know the map files are out already but not the engine mods.

Its a shame a good discussion of Japanese strategies got derailed by an argument about subs. Let me see if I can’t throw out a few things to get us back on track.

Where should Japan position the sea zone 57 carriers and why?

When do you build an IC, where do you put and why then and there?

What are your responses to US naval builds and why?

Its a shame a good discussion of Japanese strategies got derailed by an argument about subs. Let me see if I can’t throw out a few things to get us back on track.

Not really, because subs can or cannot make a big difference in Pacific (and thus Japanese strategy).

Where should Japan position the sea zone 57 carriers and why?

Depends on my build and whether I lost any Fighters, but usually 1 goes to Japan and 1 to Okinawa. That leaves them close for mutual support but gives them both a slightly different range of operation on J2.

When do you build an IC, where do you put and why then and there?

That completely depends on the Allied response. If they go KGF or even dont make 100% commitment to the Pacific, IC goes in Manchuria on J2 to crush the Chinese and any remaining Russians. A second IC will likely come down in India or Burma depending on the situation.

What are your responses to US naval builds and why?

More or less depends on what the US does build in SanFran, but usually I’ll go with CVs and Fighters (and some throwaway DDs). They give the greatest range of operation and they can combine up the most firepower in an area efficiently. Add some Fighters to island bases if the US is serious about fighting in the Pacific. Usually Bombers are a pretty safe bet because if you win the sea, they can quickly shift to wrecking Russia’s factories.

In general, I’ve found Okinawa to be a key point for Japan to station a few ships. It allows you to block off the SoPac from the US if need be by dropping a ship at Pearl. This can often buy you a turn to get moving from Japan.

I’ve found that so far, the US pretty much has the initiative in the Pacific. Japan has to split her time and attention for the first few turns giving the US some time to start mucking around. That draws Japanese resources away from the continent and buys Russia and maybe the Brits some time. Japan cant ignore a US presence or she will quickly start losing large chunks of income. This means that the battles should not stagnate between experienced players. Our first few games has the big standoffs and arms races but since then its been all fluid battles where smaller fleets are sparring rather than massive fleets going for win or lose battles.

going all out tank war into Asia Minor.

back to square one huh? some strategy… :|

@a44bigdog:

Where should Japan position the sea zone 57 carriers and why?

I like to position the sea zone 57 carriers in 51. This allows the aircraft on them to take down Australia on J2. Even if the US Flies the Hawaii fighter and the sea zone 44 fighter to Australia these fighters with the sea zone 37 fighters (from sea zone 35 attack) will be enough to take Australia. I will also sacrifice fighters to take Australia if necessary for 3 reasons. 1.) It is a 5 IPC NO so 2 rounds of the NO will replace a fighter. 2.) It removes the UK NO whether Egypt falls or is liberated. 3.) It is a good ways from Japan to Australia so I think it is best to get the job done from the start rather than have to try and come back latter.

@a44bigdog:

When do you build an IC, where do you put and why then and there?

I build a Japanese IC turn 1 and save 2 IPCs. This allows my carriers to be off projecting power and not at home protecting transports. On turn 2 I can produce with this IC the 1 or 2 transports I need to start emptying Japan into sea zone 61 so that the transports are again safe from American air. On turn two either the sea zone 37 carrier or one of the sea zone 51 carriers can move to sea zone 61 to join with these transports. I build a second IC in Manchuria on either turn 2 or 3 depending on what the Russians have done. Remember Russia can only liberate Chinese territories, Russia itself can gain no benefit from them. Any Russian force that comes south from Buryatia can be dealt with at my choosing. My primary immediate goal in Asia is to eliminate the ability of China to produce infantry by the end of J2. Remember Chinese infantry are free. All others have to be paid for and shipped to Asia.

@a44bigdog:

What are your responses to US naval builds and why?

I have been counter building against the US navy once they start to match my fleet in size. I am beginning to think this is no longer entirely necessary or even the best course of action.
One mus task oneself what are Japan’s goals, and are my actions contributing towards those goals. I think America makes too much money for Japan to take down in AA50. So that basically leaves Russia. With that in mind I am thinking Japan should do as Jenn stated after the initial land and money grabs in the Pacific. Pull the fleet back to Japan and start dumping 8 units a turn out of Japan and 5 Armor a turn from the 2 ICs. The transports at Australia and New Guinea at the end of J2 can be used to grab remaining money islands without being protected. They are too far from Japan to return home in much time to be of much use and the money they earn through captured can go to their replacements if any such are even needed.

Has anyone ever had the UK send there destroyer to SZ 48 to block forcing Japan to choose between India and Australia?  Would it slow you down in the Pacific? Also, how likely would you be to strike the US carrier/ destroyer if they took position in SZ 46 or 53 assuming a large US naval purchase? Would you be more likely to attack them if they also landed there two bombers on the respective islands?

Has anyone ever had the UK send there destroyer to SZ 48 to block forcing Japan to choose between India and Australia?  Would it slow you down in the Pacific?

No, and i would not recommend it, as it would remove a threat to the 4 IPC islands from the area. and a destroyer is not exactly block for the japanese ambition for australia. Better to keep the transport out of combat range but make sure the japanese has to keep ships / aircraft in the area.

Also, how likely would you be to strike the US carrier/ destroyer if they took position in SZ 46 or 53 assuming a large US naval purchase? Would you be more likely to attack them if they also landed there two bombers on the respective islands?

Thats a more difficult question. First, from japanese view i like the american to build ships, as it takes up large amounts of IPCs and does not directly threaten the mainland or fleets, as they require time to utilize. It also frees up the german. On the other hand, if no measures are to be taken to deal with it, it will become a problem earlier or later. Therefore I suggest the following: If the american only builds a token force, attack it and free up your IPCs for a land campaign; if the american goes all out fleet, reinforce yours so that the american has to build another round. Then decide how to deal with it accordingly.

fast way to russia for japan is india

BUY:

1 bmb, 1 arm

CM:

sz57 4ftr to sz53 1BB
sz61 2ftr to sz35 1DD, 1TN
sz61 1BB, 1CA and sz51 1DD to sz50 1DD, 1TN

sz61 1TN(2inf) to sz49 take Borneo
sz51 1TN(2inf from Carolines) to sz38 take East Indies
sz51 1TN(1inf from Carolines) to sz48 take New Guinea

Kwangtung 1inf
-sz62 1TN(inf/arm from Japan) to sz61 assault
-1ftr Formosa

Burma 1inf
-sz61 1TN(inf/art) to sz37  assault
-3inf FIC

Suyian 1inf
-3inf, 1ftr Manchuria

Fukien 1inf

• 3inf Kiangsu, 1ftr Japan

NCM:

sz61 1CV, sz35 2ftr to sz37
sz57 2CV, sz53 4ftr to sz51
3ftr(Suyian, Fukien, Kwangtung) to FIC

IPC: 31+10  BUILD: 1bmb, 1arm Japan

Has anyone ever seriously considered ignoring china and india and SE Asia and directly going for America. WUS can be taken J# if America is not careful.
Yes its a high risk strategy… you do not gain IPCs quickly but you have a huge starting force advantage. this means a lightning raid on America can really press them

why ignore it when u can bash it without yout navy?

@alvn78:

Has anyone ever seriously considered ignoring china and india and SE Asia and directly going for America. WUS can be taken J# if America is not careful.
Yes its a high risk strategy… you do not gain IPCs quickly but you have a huge starting force advantage. this means a lightning raid on America can really press them

The problem with that is China can “re-take” Manchuria, Kiangsu, and Kwangtung which would really hurt Japan.

@a44bigdog:

[…]
I like to position the sea zone 57 carriers in 51.
[…]

Do you position that CV/fighters without additional naval units? Seems a bit to risky.

US can attack there with 3 fighters and bomber. Normally you lose only three fighters, but what if US get three hits at first round? Tricky question: Lose two fighters, one CV? Lose three fighters? You have to choose your losts before you know your hits. Lost three fighters may risky if you only get two hits. And if you lose the CV as third and an additional fighter later, you have lost 44 IPC and US lost only 42.

thats a very risky attack. (87% attacker looses all its unis) normally there would be

2CV 3ftr vs 3 ftr 1 bomb.

also the US will loose the carrier too next round…

if japan looses 2 fighters round 1, you can always put the CVs at okinawa

@atarihuana:

thats a very risky attack. (87% attacker looses all its unis) normally there would be
2CV 3ftr vs 3 ftr 1 bomb.

I know.
But if 3ftr 1bomb vs. 2CV 3ftr is 43% chance to lose one and 29% chance to lose two CV, if I interpret frood.net correctly. Economical benefit, as the US have more IPC than Japan and can replace that lost units easier.

Nevertheless - I have an unpleasant feeling to give my opponent the chance to attack a CV which have no naval support.

also the US will loose the carrier too next round…

Not necessarily. If US lose two ftr, the CV could move to sz 56 (pick up two new ftr there and meet with new naval units) or to the east coast via sz 20.