Does the 1941 scenario even work without the NOs? I solitaired it for a bit once and the board seemed almost empty of units after about three turns. Germany collapsed because its lost income from the rather easy NOs really makes a difference. Japan seemed rather irrelevant since it takes longer to gain momentum without the NOs, and Germany falls sooner to a KGF.
The 1942 scenario seems better suited for a non-NO game because it´s got more starting units and the theaters are better balanced. Germany is stronger so a KGF will take longer and Asia has got more options since India won´t fall as easily, China is tougher and the US Pacific fleet is stronger.
AA50/41 Japanese strategy
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Much to the chagrin of others i purposely made what i think is the best Japanese move for the first turn.
The British no longer really have any kwangtang bang or any gambits that we saw in revised.
UK can send 3 infantry and art against your 3 infantry in Indo… and thats a bad move. They have no fighter and the DD has no SB. nothing to worry.
Purchases: Buy Japanese factory in the southern original occupied territory below Manchuria or 2 transports. You only got 17 IPC. If you go for option 1 the territory in question needs to be 3 IPC or its not an option ( its hard to see what the value is)
Moves: You have 5 fighters and 9 infantry. Your targets are 4 Chinese territories each with 1 infantry and one with an additional fighter. The british player will bring his Burma infantry to support the Fighter and infantry combo.
ON your end you can get 2 infantry and 1 fighter to each of the 3 Chinese lone guys, and 2 fighters and 2 infantry against the Chinese fighter. You will need all 3 infantry from Indo so one of your Chinese attacks may be not attempted ( risking 1 inf+1 fighter against 1 inf) so you can bring in the extra fighter giving you 3 and 3 infantry.
The transport off Japan takes 1 tank 1 inf and the other transport takes the art and infantry to Philippines.
Your BB fights the DD+ transport
The carrier goes to japan to protect your transports if you went with that option ( US bomber in range of killing the transports) Bring at least one fighter to protect carrier.
You got 2 carriers and 4 fighters north of Hawaii. Send 1 against the west coast USA fleet ( 3 vs 2) and 3 fighters against the Battleship at Hawaii. ( 9 vs 4) . The carriers goto SZ 52 and are supported with your cruiser from SZ #61
You basically land the fighters on the carriers. The USA player cant counter it, but you may lose a fighter on the BB attack.
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@Imperious:
Much to the chagrin of others i purposely made what i think is the best Japanese move for the first turn.
It’s ok, I’m here to poke holes in your strat once again :P
@Imperious:
UK can send 3 infantry and art against your 3 infantry in Indo… and thats a bad move. They have no fighter and the DD has no SB. nothing to worry.
That’s 70% victory for UK, at risk of his fleet, yes, but saves the Chinese fighter.
@Imperious:
You got 2 carriers and 4 fighters north of Hawaii. Send 1 against the west coast USA fleet ( 3 vs 2) and 3 fighters against the Battleship at Hawaii. ( 9 vs 4) . The carriers goto SZ 52 and are supported with your cruiser from SZ #61
You basically land the fighters on the carriers. The USA player cant counter it, but you may lose a fighter on the BB attack.
It seems there’s actually a good chance you’ll lose 2, possibly even 3 fighters (bad luck) doing this. ~50/50 on whether you’ll kill the BB in 1 round, if you don’t there’s plenty of chance that you’ll lose 2 fighters in that battle. And losing your fighter vs. the Destroyer off WUS is 50/50.
And in sz 52 your (possibly) 1-2 fighters + 2 carriers can be hit by 3 fighters and 1 bomber. Even a 1/4 chance that the Destroyer survives, adding that to the attack. I personally don’t like dice so I’d prob go with a safer attack of 4 fighters vs. the battleship. Maybe.
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I know that staying in the Hawaii SZ with 4 planes and 2 carriers ( or whatever is left over after you take out the Hawaiian BB and the West coast DD/Transport) is not a good idea.
Thats why i went where the carriers goto that SZ in range of her cruiser support to avoid any counter. And yes if your 3 fighters don’t get a hit on the first round and the BB does hit, then i advise you leave the BB alone. But taking out the BB for the 2 fighters is probably a good exchange.
The Americans cant have both carriers and BB in the pacific or its too much pressure.
Its pretty simple on the attacks because Japan only has 4 planes and 2 carriers.
I guess you can take a chance and leave the west coast stuff alone, using 4 fighters on the BB, but it seems like over kill, when you can kill 15 IPC with one fighter on the west coast.
I just remembered: transports cost 7 IPC, so with 17 IPC japan buys 2 Transports and 1 INf, or 1 transport and 1 fighter
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That’s 70% victory for UK, at risk of his fleet, yes, but saves the Chinese fighter.
70%? Japan has 6 vs 3 ones and a 2=5. Id say its less than 50%.
If they won that, Id go 3 fighters on the allied fighter and infantry and leave out one attack on the other Chinese battle.
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yeah, I just deleted my post because I realized that I left out the part where you move the cruiser up with the carriers : /.
But, I think we both also missed the fleet/troops at Caroline Islands. Hard to pick out exactly what’s there but it looks like 2 transports and something else. Seems you could take Philippines, Borneo, East Indies, and New Guinea or Solomons all on J1 depending what the Brits do.
As far as hitting the west coast, it depends on the exact rules I think. If taking out the Destroyer automatically kills the transport also then I’d say yeah it’s worth it. But if your fighter has to survive to carry out a round of combat against the transport for an auto-kill then I’m not so sure. Guess it’d still be worth it. 50% to kill 15 IPC of units losing none, 25% to kill 8 IPC losing 10, 25% to kill 0 IPC losing 10. Overall net of +5 IPC-worth in kills with the second version. So, yeah, looks good.
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@Imperious:
That’s 70% victory for UK, at risk of his fleet, yes, but saves the Chinese fighter.
70%? Japan has 6 vs 3 ones and a 2=5. Id say its less than 50%.
If they won that, Id go 3 fighters on the allied fighter and infantry and leave out one attack on the other Chinese battle.
It’s actually 6 vs. 6 (art bringing one of the 1’s up to a 2). And the UK has an extra casualty to take. 70%
3 1’s and a 2 vs. 3 2’s would be right at 50%, though. Amazing the difference 1 die point can make, esp. in a small battle.
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The territory below Manchuria has a value of 2. Manchuria appears to be the only mainland area with a value of 3. India has a value of 3, French Indo-China and Burma are both 2.
Second, in one of your other posts, you claimed the following:
**"The rules say you cant bring in allied junk into China. So you cant do that.
The allies can land in Soviet Union but the Soviets are denied their bonus if this occurs.
So no non-Chinese units cannot fly over or into china."** see China as a new sub-player.
You have the British units in Burma entering China to assist the Chinese fighter. How is this possible based on your other comments? One statement contradicts the other. Which is correct?
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Also the Japan bonuses might have a strong impact on turn what to do on their first turn.
If possible, I would try to go for one of the bonus first to get +5IPC, which Japan realy need. -
Second, in one of your other posts, you claimed the following:
"The rules say you cant bring in allied junk into China. So you cant do that.
The allies can land in Soviet Union but the Soviets are denied their bonus if this occurs.
So no non-Chinese units cannot fly over or into china." see China as a new sub-player.
Then bring that up in those threads. This is about Japanese strategy.
and BTW I got that from reading another post, so ill find it and support it when i do.
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I saw another picture were the japanese have 3 more ships and 3 more infantry, so ill incorporate them into attacks in the Hawaii group, perhaps an invasion of Hawaii. and removing the threat of counterattacks because Hawaii is occupied.
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@Imperious:
I saw another picture were the japanese have 3 more ships and 3 more infantry
What are these 3 ships? 2 Trn and a destroyer or is it 3 trn?
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I cant tell, but id say at least 1 tranny and 1 dd… 3 infantry and the 3rd ship i have no clue.
If its 2 transports 3 men and 1 dd, ill bring it all to Hawaii and invade with 2 CV and 2 fighters, 1 on Hawaii, and 4th fighter on west coast dd/transport.
USA loses 5 IPC and has no counter attack against Japanese carrier fleet.
Then on turn 2 i bring it to threaten Australia, west coast, and the islands that i need for bonus
The other 2 transports that used in Philippines take Borneo and dutch east Indies.
Japanese builds in view of 2 extra transports are now 1 bomber, 1 art. This will be used to invalidate any factory built in India by UK or a Soviet factory in range.
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@Imperious:
If its 2 transports 3 men and 1 dd, ill bring it all to Hawaii and invade with 2 CV and 2 fighters, 1 on Hawaii, and 4th fighter on west coast dd/transport.
USA loses 5 IPC and has no counter attack against Japanese carrier fleet.
You might be forgetting air from EUS, which can now reach your navy if you station it at Hawaii. He can bring 2 bombers, 3 fighters, 1 carrier, 2 DD vs. your (assuming you kill his BB and only lose DD and don’t lose your fighter to west coast) 2 carriers, 4 fighters. A very favorable fight for him that gets rid of half your transports and most of your carriers/fighters.
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yes but now i am taking Hawaii by invasion, and also of these E USA planes only the bomber can participate because remember the map has central USA. So thats Carrier, 1 fighter, 2 bombers against the new fleet consisting of:
4 fighters, 2 carriers, and Destroyer
I figure i will lose the Destroyer against his Battleship but score 2 hits with the three planes 2 carriers and 1 destroyer, but hes also got more expensive units to exchange ( my fighters vs his bombers or carrier or fighter).
Of course we are just making some preliminary ideas, so i expect some flaws.
Next we consider the bonus IPC situation and to deny obtain that for japan.
according to the current information:
Met goals in BOLD
Japan
Manchuria+Formosa+French Indo-China=5 IPCs
Kwangtung+Netherlands East Indies+Borneo+Phillippine Islands+New Guinea+Solomon Islands= 5 IPCs
Hawaiian Islands+Australia+India=5 IPCsUS/China
France = 5 IPCs(Phillippine Islands=5 IPCs)
(Italy= 5 IPCs)
(Hawaiian Islands+Midway+Marshall Islands+Wake Island+Okinawa+Iwo Jima=5 IPCs)
I am denying USA both Pacific opportunities of getting pacific bonus and thats the only thing Japan can do.
I am also on my way of getting parts of 2 other bonuses . I got one in the bag. I dont think any strategy can actually obtain anything better for japan on J1.
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@Imperious:
yes but now i am taking Hawaii by invasion, and also of these E USA planes only the bomber can participate because remember the map has central USA. So thats Carrier, 1 fighter, 2 bombers against the new fleet consisting of:
His fighter from EUS can land on the carrier, his fighters from WUS and sz 44 can both land back in WUS.
Other than that it looks decent, but I really don’t think I like taking Hawaii and planting your fleet there. Unless I’m looking at the movement wrong. I would probably take E Indies + Borneo with the Caroline inf instead.
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Fun to discuss strategy. Just some observation on the -41 J1 moves: they have 2 TRS and 1 DD at Marshall Islands. You can invade Netherlands East Indies with 1 TRS and 1 DD, but that is very vulnerable to attack from the UK India fleet. I guess the best way is to sink the India fleet with an attack by 2 FTRs from your CV off Formosa, and then send that DD into action at Hawaii. Then take NEI w. 1 TRS. Then you could send 2 FTR vs. Hawaii and 2 vs. West Coast. You would have 8 attack, 3 hits vs. 1 BB, 4 defence, 2 hits, OK odds. And the odds vs. West coast are good. Leaving your carriers off Hawaii is insane I think, you must send them to Marshall Islands. J1 strategy is to get as many IPCs as possible and not lose too much, and I think sending too many FTRs vs. China is dangerous. Phillippine Islands needs 1 BB, 1 CA and 2 TRS w. four land units to take with good odds, and even a FTR to be completely sure.
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I see. righto!
I guess then i have to go to plan B… which is carriers not involved and placed one space back, but using the cruiser as soaker for BB hit and 3 planes ( 4 threes against -1 four). Then if my cruiser survives and he counters i got him.
I now send the 3 infantry and 2 transports to those lone islands.
I will revise the strategy and repost it completely in light of this new info.
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Then you could send 2 FTR vs. Hawaii
hows this?
A battleship against 2 fighters? or 2 fighters and destroyer?
I like the other moves. I will incorporate and update.
Each picture we create is a better focus. good.
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silly you, cruiser can’t reach hawaii, unless you meant DD from the other island
corrected from next post :-D
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Climb Mt. Niitaka: Japanese J1 turn strategy for AA50-41
Considerations:
- get maximum jump of Chinese territories and prevent a long protracted campaign in China
- Destroy allied fleet units in range to as much a degree as possible and minimize loses
- Capture main island chains with plan to to deny American pacific bonus and obtain Japanese bonus
- Set up final position to avoid counters and further targets of Australia, remaining Chinese territories, and remaining island groups including Hawaii and others.
- safeguard against KJF by US player by destroying enough of his forces, so he goes to Europe as his main effort.
Plan:
Purchases: 17 IPC to be spent:
1st choice: 2 Transports, 1 Inf ( 14+3)
2nd choice: 1 Transport, 1 Fighter
3rd choice: 1 Bomber, 1 ArtCombat moves:
- Capture THREE Chinese territories adjacent to British infantry and one west of Manchuria with:
3 infantry 2 fighters ( against 1 fighter 1 Infantry), 2 infantry 1 fighter ( against 1 infantry next to Hong Kong), 3 infantry ( against Chinese territory south of Mongolia) The extra infantry goes north to Manchuria for defense with fighters.
You have 3 fighters and 9 Infantry. ( japan, Manchuria, and 1 plane with Carrier group)
Note: UK plays after Japan in 1941.
Option:
you can elect to leave one Inf in Manchuria to defend or 1 Inf to Indo-china to defend, your fighters can mostly land in these territories and defend against UK/Soviet attacks. I prefer this if possible to keep Soviets from Getting 3 IPC.
or UK from taking Indo.Naval attacks:
2 fighters attack UK transport and Destroyer off India ( carrier parks off Burma)
Sea invasion of Philippines:
1 Transport off Japan brings 1 tank 1 infantry, and second transport off China brings 1 inf and 1 Art to Philippines.Invasion of Borneo and Dutch Indies:
Using the transports from Marshall Islands bring 1 Infantry to Dutch Indies and 2 infantry to Borneo. ( note: change due to information that Dutch Indies are in reach of Marshall)Attack US Philippine fleet with BB.
Bring Cruiser to protect the Borneo transport from UK ships off Australia.
Use the destroyer at Marshall and bring to Hawaii with 3 fighters to sink Hawaii BB, Bring 4th fighter to attack west coast DD and transport. Bring the 1 carrier to Japan. Your fighters land safely and the carrier protects the transports you built.
The second carrier moves in a sea zone south so it can be used against Australia and also be out of the way of US Bombers and Carrier based planes.
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