Presidential Election (as a current event- watch the tone or it's gone)

Really?

Have you SEEN how he has voted and SEEN what his stance is?

He’s for government living within its own means
He’s for no gay marriage (though he does not mind civil unions)
He’s for minimal government health care for the indigent, not for everyone
He’s for the eventual withdrawal from Iraq, but not over night
He’s for increasing Veteran’s Affairs funding and programs

Add to that his statements that all the ideas of the past 30 years has come from the Republican party and that Reagan was the greatest politician in OUR time.  Not verbatim quotes mind you, but he’s made those statements.

That sounds pretty gosh darn conservative to me.  Especially when it’s reflected against Hillary Clinton and John McCain.  (Of course, it is ACTUALLY moderate, but since McCain and Clinton are so blessed liberal it makes Barry look down right conservative!)

McCain’s only chance is if Hillary wins and people vote against Hillary.  McCain’s done if Obama gets the nomination because we are not afraid of Barry and Barry’s speeches and vote history are more in line with classic Republicanism then McCains.

yes indeed.  a brilliant move by republicans.

to get more voters for McCain.  let huckabee go around still creating momentum behind him.  that way when people in the south and other religious conservatives learn more about him and like him, then he can go with McCain.  its great, we win with moderates and conservatives.  perfect.

obama gets a conservative ranking of about 8 to McCains 82.  :roll:

jen, you would take a loss of iraq, and give victory to al-qaeda.  those murderers of ALL people, young old, black white, doesnt matter they will kill you people.

and you will give up on putting conservative justices on the bench so liberals stop legislating from the bench.

i’m just ashamed you even call yourself conservative.  we always make fun of liberals for being whiners, but how can we anymore, with the biggest one being “conservative”.

have you been implanted with a “hate McCain furiously for little reason” chip?

I would rather screw the Iraqi people over then screw the American people over.  You all know this about me.  My clan is more important then everyone else.  My family is more important then my neighbors, my neighbors are more important then my countrymen, my countrymen are more important then human kind, human kind is more important then animals, animals are more important then plants, plants are more important then other planets, etc, etc, etc.

Obama is getting a low rating from a biased source.  Look how they rate ALL democrats.  Not all democrats are single digit conservatives.  Obama’s stance on the issues is MORE conservative then McCain’s stance.  Likewise, Obama’s never stabbed Republicans in the back like McCain has done routinely and repeatedly since 2000.

I already listed out Obama’s platform.  It’s right out of the Republican hand book.  Smaller government, smaller taxes, more domestic defense spending, what I failed to mention is that he is ALSO against amnesty programs, he wants illegals to go through the immigration process legally to be here.  But he also realizes that a fantasy wall is not going to keep them out.  And why should it?  We have people fighting to get into a nation that is so affluent and so wealthy that our poor people have an obesity problem!  The poor in Mexico have a starving to death problem.  You are not going to keep people out with a chain link fence.  The better way, the Obama way, is to allow unlimited legal immigration to this nation from Mexico and Latin America provided you pass the immigration standards.

Honestly, he’s not as conservative as Reagan or Bush 41.  He’s not as liberal as Clinton, Bush 43 or McCain.  If anything, I’d say he’s kind of a cross between JFK and Nixon.

Jen’s personal “pet program” is becoming pretty obvious…

For Jen, it is Veterans Benefits that are a key voting issue for her (can;t blame her under the circumstances, but it is an obvious “personal benefit” prejudice when she goes to vote.)

And that is how ALMOST EVERYONE votes…  What is in it for me?
And that is why Medicare and Social Security are such popular election issues (among Dems)… there are a LOT of people who get something out of it for their own personal economic benefit. Or why “strong defense” is such a good issue fro Republicans… all those folks at Boeing and Lockheed who keep their jobs…

We are all Egoists when it comes to voting, I agree. (Egoist is someone who does what is in their own best interest and feels others should do the same.)  As much as I try to be a Utilitarianism follower (someone who does what is for the greatest good for the greatest number, even if it is to your own personal detriment.)

And yes, I have to admit, candidates that want to fill the coffers of the VA have a benefit to me.  I need those services to care for the injuries I took in the service.  I think it’s fair…though, I don’t think we need the housing benefits, etc.  Just the medical and schooling benefits, but that’s just me.

Anyway, I don’t think Obama or McCain will surrender in Iraq.  Hillary is anyone’s guess, she’s said it both ways from Sunday lately.  So national security isn’t really going to be an issue on the table if it’s Obama and McCain.

So what WILL be on the table?

Immigration (Obama’s stronger, McCain’s weaker since he proposed Amnesty twice since 08.)
Fiscal Conservativism (Obama’s stronger having voted for tax cuts AND worked for a balanced budget, McCain voted against tax cuts and has worked to make government bigger)
Gay Marriage (McCain from what I am told is neither pro or con; Obama has steadfastly been anti-Gay Marriage but willing to offer a compromise with civil unions)
Health Care (McCain’s offered universal health care in his speeches.  Obama has said that the government should provide healthcare for the financially impoverished only.)

In the most recent vote, the stimulus package McCain voted for everyone to get it (which would have included Illegals, though he probably didn’t know that at the time of his vote.)  Obama has voted to only allow Veterans and Senior Citizens get stimulus checks, Obama’s vote was on the winning side, btw.

In just about every comparison, Obama is the more conservative of the two.  I’ve yet to hear of a stance or vote that McCain has offered that was more conservative then the Democrat Obama.  In fact, I wonder if Obama is elected if the Democrats may once again become the home of conservatism while Republicans continue their march to the left becoming liberals?  It’s how it was before, it could be again.

The only immutable fact of politics in the United States is that we will always have conservatives and liberals.  Their party names may change back and forth or they may come up with new party names.  But we always have those two bodies of people.

Correcting 2 of your facts on McCain (and I am NOT a McCain supporter)

1.  He voted against Bush’s tax cuts only because they did not include corresponding spending cuts.  Thats makes him a Conservative in my book (reducing government spending is a conservative cornerstone)

2.  McCain did not vote on the stimulus at all (at least not the vote yesterday).  Hillary and Obama both flew back to Washington to cast votes to increase the stimulus package to $210B.  McCain stayed out campaigning and did not vote on it at all (not sure if he flew back to vote today)

point 1; thats his stance after critisisam. before that it was due to tax cuts don’t work.

point 2; most don’t vote durring campaighns, i don’t think he has really voted much in the last months.

Sorry, that statement about McCain and his spending reduction demand being the result of criticism will not fly.

He has been consistent on that front for more than a decade.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080208/ap_on_el_pr/conservatives_bush

Knew it…

GG

@ncscswitch:

Sorry, that statement about McCain and his spending reduction demand being the result of criticism will not fly.

He has been consistent on that front for more than a decade.

why won’t it fly? he said to begin with that his opposision to the tax cuts was because they don’t work.
there is records that the tax cuts are working to provide more revanue to the gov.
when McCain was confronted on this he changed stances on his “why” to be that it didn’t include tax cuts for middle class and that there was no spending reduction.

that is a flip by the standard that i know it. origonal stance was tax cuts don’t work, now it’s that the cuts were in the wrong place.
now i don’t mind the guy changing his stance, but it’s the “why”, and he dosn’t admit that he has changed stance. a simple “i have looked at the evadince and i was wrong, tax cuts do help” is all thats needed so long as it is done in a sonsear manner.
as it is, it shows he dosn’t fully understand the depth of the economic problem that the US faces.

on a diffrent note. hear in WA we are starting to get our political campaighn adds. how i hate them. if there is any reason to want to be deployed, that is deffinatlly near the top of the list.

CBS, yesterday, stated Rush was going to fund raise for Hillary Clinton.  Seems weird to me, considering his hatred for the Clintons, I woulda thought if he was going to endorse a democrat it would be Obama.  But it shows that radio talk show is still trailblazing new avenues if he is fund raising for Hillary.

Oh yea, and all the news medias on the Today Show, USA Today, etc, etc, etc, were just lambasting McCain.  The revealing of the true McCain by the media has begun, now that no one is actively running against him for the Conservative Nomination.

@balungaloaf:

jen, you would take a loss of iraq, and give victory to al-qaeda.  those murderers of ALL people, young old, black white, doesnt matter they will kill you people.

Just a quick comment … I need this “explained” to me. How is leaving Iraq giving al-qaeda a victory? There were no al-qaeda when we invaded, but there is now. I wonder if our presence there is enraging their citizens enough to join the movement against us.

I read through some more of this thread and I do agree with some things said: Huckabee will be McCain’s running mate … and they will beat Hillary if she is the nominee but they would lose to Obama if he is nominated. Just an opinion, obiously (but shared by others here)

Another comment… I disagree (as do others) with saying Obama is more conservative than McCain. McCain (even though I think he is a bloodthirsty wargomer maniac  :-D) is fiscally conservative. I accept his explanation of voting against the tax cuts. “You can’t give money away if you don’t have the money to give away.” HOWEVER, if absolutely forced to choose between McCain and Obama, I would choose Obama (and I do consider myself conservative). Here’s why: I believe Obama can change our foreign policy (IMO, for the better) by withdrawing from Iraq. Yes, I hate the idea of social healthcare, but the president isn’t the sole decision maker on the issue. Congress has to get it through … and I dont see that happening with a Republican senate.

But anyways … I wont be voting for either of those (insert bad word here)s. I will be voting Libertarian.

As far as I am concerned if it ends up with Obama vs McCain, it will be the first election ever in which I will be happy with whoever wins. Romney is out, good. Now if only Hillary bombs out, I will be celebrating a victory. It won’t matter to me who is elected between O and M. They are both good enough for me despite where I agree and disagree on their stances of various issues.

al-qaeda is there now.  and leaving gives them victory.  even though they have already conceeded defeat and are shifting focus to afghanistan.

the iraqi’s HATE al-qaeda.  without al-qaeda killing people for music, for art, cutting kids’ heads off in front of parents for eating american candy etc etc etc.

why would you even want to give them success.  thats just wrong.

@stuka:

As far as I am concerned if it ends up with Obama vs McCain, it will be the first election ever in which I will be happy with whoever wins. Romney is out, good. Now if only Hillary bombs out, I will be celebrating a victory. It won’t matter to me who is elected between O and M. They are both good enough for me despite where I agree and disagree on their stances of various issues.

I don’t like any of them but I doubt the republicans have a serious chance of winning. I mean maybe McCain can beat Hillary but i doubt that, and thats only if Paul doesn’t run as a libertarian. I think the real presidential race is between Hillary and Obama.

Now that Huckabee no longer serves the needs of his master, McCain, he will be thrown under the bus at the first opportunity it seems to benefit McCain.  He will NOT be his running mate.  Guilliani might be his running mate though.

Secondly, I think McCain is HOPING for Hillary to win.  If she wins, he might be able to terrorize Americans into voting for him out of fear of Hillary, not because McCain will make a good president.

If Obama wins, I think McCain may lose by a landslide.  Obama is touting a very conservative platform for a liberal democrat.  He’s pro-tax cuts, he’s anti-gay marriage, he’s for border security, he’s for a draw down in troops, not full out surrender; etc.  It’s a great platform to use in persuading conservatives to ditch McCain and go Democrat, especially now that the media is smearing McCain. ( no one is running against him, they don’t have to pretend to like him anymore to give him an edge.)

More on that point, no less then 3 television programs and one radio show in the past 24 hours that I normally watch/listen too has already started smearing McCain trying to drive Republicans away just as hard as they tried to drive Republicans towards him during the primary.  This is just the soft blows, they have to start to build up the repetition to drill it into our heads, but they can’t go too fast for fear Huckabee may win, or Romney may come back. (He’s just not campaigning, but his name is still on the ballots and he could, technically, still win - though the odds are almost nil.)

Evidentially, Rush is also hoping Hillary wins as CBS News says he is running a campaign fund drive for her.  Maybe she’ll raise enough from the ditto-heads to pay off her loan of $5,000,000.00 to herself?  I don’t know.  I thought McCain-Feingold took all the soft money out of politics.  :roll:  Oh yea, only CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS can’t have soft money, laws don’t apply to the Clintons, or evidentially, John McCain.

I, personally, won’t vote for Hillary.  However, I also won’t vote for McCain.  If I have an option for Obama, as a quasi-conservative as he is, I will vote for him against McCain.  If Obama is not an option, I’ll vote third party.  If no third party is on the ballot (a real possibility in Illinois, they don’t even want to put Republicans on the ticket here, guess that happens when you have 0 (yea, ZERO) elected Republicans at the state government level) then I will just not vote for President.  After all, the only REAL difference between John McCain and Hillary Clinton is that Hillary freely admits to being a communist.  John is pretending to be a capitalist and using his Vietnam record like a flag draped over his shoulder in a fake attempt at instilling patriotism.  Yes, he was a war hero.  Yes that was OVER 50 YEARS AGO.  Maybe if he was a war hero in 1991 or in 2003.  But Vietnam has been over for a VERY long time, can we PLEASE put it behind us and look at the real issues?

I want the next president to stop gay marriage.  I want the next president to appoint justices who hold sacred the value of life, liberty and property (or happiness.)  I want the next president to be for small government, strong state governments.  I want the next president to feel secure enough to speak softly and wield a large nuclear warhead, but use that warhead only when necessary.  I want the next president to be a man who has never supported amnesty for major portions of the population who have committed felonies, but rather to permit people to legally immigrate.

Basically, I want a Republican Obama, but I’ll take a Democrat Obama if it means not having a Republican Clinton like we’ll have if John McCain gets the nomination.  He’s basically a fanatic Bush Jr or a warmongering Clinton.

Guiliani as McCain’s VP makes no strategic sense.  McCain is already strong in New England, as strong or stronger than Guiliani.  And he would only gain Guiliani’s negatives.

McCain has been week in the south for the most part.  I hate to say it, but he NEEDS a Southerner on the ticket in order to help try to resurrect the Reagan Democrats and get victories in states like North Carolina (which is one of the larger electoral prizes now).

Huckabee is a natural… a Conservative, a Southerner, a proven winner in the Southern States, and a natural point of gravitation for disaffected Conservatives to salvage their egos and back McCain.

And I have to be honest, Rush and Hannity and Ingram are pretty much screwing themselves if they fail to start to back peddle from their current position over the next several months (which they are certain to do).  McCain will put a Conservative in the VP slot, and will probably make some pledges about taxes and border security, and you will end up in the last 90 days or so before the election having Rush et.al. “grudgingly” back McCain/Huckabee as a superior answer to Obama and/or Clinton.
The lynch pin for the Conservatives will be when a couple of SCOTUS judges announce their intent to retire over the summer…  They will have no choice but to go McCain in order to try to preserve their fight against Roe v. Wade (which is the cornerstone issue of the Religious Right, and is the majority of Rush’s listeners)

And Abortion is the A1 Prime issue for the HARD CORE right (those most put off by McCain on other issues).  And those Pro-Life folks are NOT going to risk Hillary or Obama replacing aging liberals with young liberals on SCOTUS (or heaven forbid an aging Conservative with a young liberal).

If they Republicans (with a Pro-Life candidate like McCain) LOSE in 2008, it will set back the Pro-Life movement 20+ years as aging liberal SCOTUS justices (like Stevens) are replaced with younger liberal justices who will be in place until around 2030.  And if even ONE Conservative is replaced, it could lock Roe v. Wade in for even longer.

THAT is the issue of the Religious Right.  And the will NOT allow the ground they have gained on SCOTUS over the past 30 years to be lost by avoiding voting for McCain.

Rudy will carry new york for McCain if Celery is the dems candidate. McCain will not win in the north east which makes me worry to no end because i keep seeing that loser Lieberman hanging around looking for a job in the background of McCain speeches and McCain may be stupid enough to pick him because he is one of few pro-war guys on the left.

Your thinking is flawed Switch. I am a member of the “HARD CORE” right yet I could give a flying fuck about abortion at the moment, because there are so many other important matters facing the nation.

Killing the defenseless is certainly a wrong that must be stopped, but frankly I’m more worried about my brothers getting killed here in Iraq than about babies getting killed in the states.