AAE Scenario: Europe 1939 (France, USA, Germany, Britain, USSR, Italy)

Admiral_Thrawn

Exactly, if you want some arbitary rule that the SU can never attack until the Axis attacks you need to keep the xenophobia mutual.

Admiral_Thrawn

The UK would never allow russian troops in London except maybe as a last resort against a German Invasion that might be succesful. This event would be very unlikely anyway. Then if the Russians did put there troops there it would like be an act of war anyway.

tekkyy

@Eschaton:

For one thing, what is going on in tekkyy’s game is just plain bad allied gameplay, not bad rules insofar as I can see. for one thing, there is no reason that one should not find a russian bomber in any area that the germans intend on attacking.

Is this regarding my idea of letting Russia play as a third side?

Eschaton

Well, of course the downside to having the USSR dump men and material in other countries in this game is the SAME reason Stalin never considered for a moment during the real war - it would be taking away communist troops from the defense of the motherland to defend a non-communist state. Such an action would not only have been against the communist doctrine of the time, but also against the common-sense idea of prioritizing your own safety over the safety of your neighbors. If Germany wants to discourage the USSR from engaging in this strategy, it need only park a sizeable army on the Russian frontier.

And let me put it to you this way - Britain felt that she needed aid badly during the Blitz and the U-boat blockade. I have little doubt that if Stalin had offered military aid in the form of weapons and/or vehicles, or even an expeditionary unit, Britain would not have declined the offer. The USA was essentially already providing the UK with the same, and simultaneously remaining at peace with Germany (despite the fact that her merchant marine was more or less openly at war with U-boats on the high seas at the time!). I can’t say as much for the USA, but I’m not willing to complicate the rules just for the sake of this small discrepancy. If the USA needs to worry about being invaded, then the histories have already gone so far from the beaten path that I’m willing to accept such a possibility.

If in gameplay this proves to be too much of a boon to the allies, I will strongly consider a xenophobia clause for Russia as well. This would not, note, stop her from going on naval maneuvers.

Admiral_Thrawn

Eschaton did you get Cyan’s ? about the scenerio?

Eschaton

In response to your playtesting and more of our own, we have decided to release a drastically different rule set, version 3, in order to address some issues brought up. Many things have been tweaked, changed, or added, so be sure to read the whole document before playing with this new rule set:

Axis & Allies Europe: 1939

VICTORY CONDITIONS: Control two enemy capitals (capitals are comprised of Moscow, Germany, Northern Italy, United Kingdom and United States) for one turn.

There are 5 playing nations: Soviet Union, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom (and minor allied and neutral countries), France/United States. Italy is played using Japanese pieces from one of the other game boards, and France/United States uses United States pieces.

Turn Order: Germany, Soviet Union, Italy, the United Kingdom, and France/United States.

SPECIAL RULES:

Additional IPCs on Turn 1: Germany starts with 15 IPCs to spend on its first turn.
Italy starts with an extra 6 IPCs to spend on its first turn.
UK and France start with an extra 10 IPCs to spend between the two of them.
NEW UNITS MAY ONLY BE PLACED IN THEIR PLAYER’S INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX OR ADJACENT SEA SQUARE. THIS NEGATES THE PACT OF STEEL RULE.

Soviet Union:

The Soviet Union must remain at peace until Germany or Italy initiates hostilities against the Soviet Union. Then it must declare war against both of these countries and no others.

Soviet convoy does not become active until Germany or Italy attacks the USSR.

The Soviet Union may only use half of their income, rounding up, until Italy or Germany initiates hostilities against the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union owns the pink territories and they are considered part of Soviet Territory.

Captured Soviet factories can only produce a number of units equal to that territories’ IPC value each turn.

France/United States:

U.S. convoys become active when the USA enters the war (i.e. France falls).

Maginot Line: French infantry in Eastern France or Vichy France defend on a 3 if attacked from Germany or Northern Italy, respectively.

The two British Convoys valued at 3 IPCs are French; if France falls they become British. If they have been occupied by Axis naval units, they will still need to be reoccupied by Allied powers.

Mid-East:

The total IPC value of the yellow Mid-East territories is counted to the end of each round. This money is divided between the French and British immediately for use on their next turn (in a fashion similar to British convoys in A&A Pacific).

The Industrial Complex in Egypt may only deploy 1 unit per turn.

Vichy France:

If France falls to the Axis, French IPCs are claimed by the conquering player and any French land or air units in Vichy France, the Middle East, or North Africa immediately become German (they may not move until the following turn). Any remaining French land or air units in Allied territories become British. French naval units are scuttled (removed from play). The French convoys become British (if under Axis control at the time, they must be liberated first). From this point forward the French player is now the United States; nothing special happens if France is liberated.

Plunder:

If the Axis conquer any of the minor allied powers (including Netherlands-Belgium and Corsica) or neutral territories (all of which are originally under the jurisdiction of the British player), that Axis country immediately gains “plunder” from the bank equal to twice the IPC value of the territory conquered to spend on their following turn (territories with no IPC value yield a plunder of 1). This only works the first time a territory of this nature is conquered.

Pact of Steel:

Axis powers can deploy units using each other’s Industrial Complexes.

Lend-Lease:

Allied units in Red territories can be absorbed by the Soviet Union during the Soviet’s purchase phase.

Other Rules:

Strategic Bombing raids can only destroy up to the IPC value of the territory in which they are conducting the raid.

Fighters cost 10, Carriers 16. Tanks defend on a 3.

Transports can carry any of the following combinations: 2 infantry, 1 infantry and 1 tank, 1 infantry and 1 artillery, 1 infantry, 1 artillery, or 1 tank.

Destroyers can bombard.

The United States gets an industrial complex. No new ones can be built.

Allied units may not enter Soviet territory until the Axis initiates hostilities against the Soviets.

If France falls, all Mid-East IPCs go to the UK by default. They may not be given to the United States.

The British marker is used on the side of the IPC chart to keep track of Mid-East territories.

UNIT PLACEMENT

GERMANY: 13 IPCs
Germany: 6 infantry, 4 tanks, 2 artillery, 4 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 Industrial Complex, 1 AA gun.
Austria: 2 infantry, 1 tank, 2 artillery.
Czechoslovakia: 5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter.
Hungary: 3 infantry, 1 tank, 2 artillery.
Finland: 2 infantry.
Baltic Sea: 1 battleship, 1 destroyer.
Danish Sea: 1 transport, 1 sub.
Denmark Strait: 2 subs.
Barents Sea: 2 subs.
Mid-Atlantic: 2 subs.
South Atlantic: 2 subs.

SOVIET UNION: 18 IPCs
Moscow: 1 infantry, 1 Industrial Complex, 1 AA gun.
Leningrad: 1 infantry, 1 fighter, 1 Industrial Complex, 1 AA gun.
Stalingrad: 1 infantry, 1 Industrial Complex.
Archangel: 1 infantry, 1 Industrial Complex.
Baltic States: 1 infantry, 1 artillery.
East Poland: 1 infantry, 1 tank.
(Bessarabia, Vyborg, Caucasus unoccupied).
Siberia: 1 infantry.
Turkestan: 1 infantry.
Ukraine SSR: 1 infantry.
Belorussia: 1 infantry.
Russia: 1 infantry.
Karelia: 1 infantry.
White Sea: 1 transport, 1 sub.

ITALY: 9 IPCs
Northern Italy: 5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 Industrial Complex, 1 AA gun.
Southern Italy: 2 infantry, 1 tank.
Libya: 2 infantry.
Sicily: 1 fighter.
Rumania: 2 infantry, 1 artillery.
Bulgaria: 1 infantry, 1 artillery.
Central Mediterranean: 1 sub, 1 battleship.
Tyrrhenian Sea: 1 destroyer, 1 transport.
(Sardinia unoccupied).

UNITED KINGDOM: 19 IPCs
United Kingdom: 2 infantry, 1 tank, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 bomber, 1 Industrial Complex, 1 AA gun.
Canada: 1 tank, 1 Industrial Complex.
Malta: 1 fighter.
Atlantic: 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 1 transport.
Celtic Sea: 1 transport.
English Channel: 1 destroyer, 1 transport.
North Sea: 1 sub.
Davis Straight: 1 transport.
Straight of Gibraltar: 1 battleship.
Eastern Mediterranean: 1 destroyer, 2 transports.
(Gibraltar and Iceland unoccupied; 2 convoys worth 5 IPCs).
Mid-East: (see special rules for Mid-East income).
Egypt: 3 infantry, 1 tank, 1 Industrial Complex* (see special rules)
Trans-Jordan: 1 infantry, 1 artillery.
(Syria, Iran, and Palestine unoccupied)
Neutral and Minor Allies: (do not contribute to UK income)
Yugoslavia: 2 infantry.
Greece: 3 infantry, 1 artillery.
Crete: 1 infantry.
Denmark: 1 infantry.
Norway: 1 infantry.

FRANCE: 17 IPCs
France: 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 Industrial Complex.
Eastern France: 1 Tank, 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 AA gun.
Vichy France: 2 infantry.
Tunisia: 1 infantry, 1 artillery.
Morocco: 1 infantry.
Algeria: 1 infantry.
Syria: 1 infantry.
English Channel: 1 destroyer, 1 sub.
Western Mediterranean: 1 destroyer, 1 transport.
(Corsica, Netherlands-Belgium are unoccupied; 2 convoys worth 3 IPCs).

Imperious Leader

thats pretty good. except id allow German rockets and jet planes tech after the late war, and also give Germans about 4-6 SS Panzerkorps which can be allocated (built) at the rate of only one per turn after a specific turn (attack at 5 defend at 4-5, cost 8). Perhaps the Soviets can also have 6 shock armies (same values) getting 2 in late 41, 2 in spring 42, and 2 more in fall 1942.

also soviet Siberian army rules like this:

Siberian Army:
Historically, the Russian position in the fall of 1941 was critical. German forces were approaching Moscow, encircling Leningrad, and generally overrunning and destroying all remaining European Soviet military power. The Russians however had an ace up their sleeve in the form of their Asian armies. These tough Siberian units had been held in Asia to guard against any aggressive moves by the Japanese. However, Russian intelligence confirmed that the Japanese had made the decision to attack the US and avoid conflict with Russia. This allowed Russia to transfer these formidable forces west. These units arrived in the Moscow area just as the German forces were appearing on the outskirts of Moscow. These forces, along with the Russian winter, finally stopped the Nazi advance.

At the beginning of the third Russian turn, the Russian player rolls a die. The result determines the size and composition of the Siberian reinforcements.

Die Roll: Siberian Reinforcements:
1 8 x inf, 4 x tank, 4 x arty, 1 x fighter
2 8 x inf, 3 x tank, 4 x arty
3 7 x inf, 3 x tank, 3 x arty
4 7 x inf, 3 x arty
5 6 x inf, 2 x arty
6 6 x inf

The resulting reinforcements are immediately placed in Moscow. If Moscow has been captured, the reinforcements are placed in any original Russian territory still under Russian control.

tekkyy

Thats a pretty big force. (Siberian army NA)

Imperious Leader

It does not show up until late 1941, so when you got the piece density at that level, i think the impact would just be enough to help the soviets stay afloat for 1-2 more turns or turn the tide just a bit.

Eschaton

That sounds like pretty cool stuff, but I don’t want to add any new units to the game. The object of this scenario is to provide an interesting 1939 scenario for beginners/casual gamers. I don’t want to make it too technical or anything like that.

Imperious Leader

oh come on…SS panzers and Shock troops can have the same value so its one unit and no more than 6 total can be built on one side.

The rule is a one liner at best:

“The Germans and Soviet player can build one elite armor unit at the rate of one per turn costing 8 IPC and attacks and defends at 5”

Nuclear

I know you guys want to just the use the same map as Axis and Allies Europe. But perhaps the game could be better if it was just a really big map of Europe. Here is what I mean:
1. Just have Europe and North Africa on the Map. USA enters like in Axis and Allies D-Day, via a force chart.
2. With just having Europe it shoud be easy to have a bunch of towns and zones. In fact you could just give the towns IPC values and make the other zones in between worthless to stimulate trench warfare.
3. Perhaps the map is hexagons at the front lines only. A mix of hexagons and zones/cities.

Kind of not want you are exactly trying to do. But starting with a different map could solve a lot of the problems that already exist from using a pre existing one.

Eschaton

I think the game works well enough without either of these exotic additions. But, this does sound like a good idea for another scenario.

Gewehr

@Nuclear:

I know you guys want to just the use the same map as Axis and Allies Europe. But perhaps the game could be better if it was just a really big map of Europe. Here is what I mean:
1. Just have Europe and North Africa on the Map. USA enters like in Axis and Allies D-Day, via a force chart.
2. With just having Europe it shoud be easy to have a bunch of towns and zones. In fact you could just give the towns IPC values and make the other zones in between worthless to stimulate trench warfare.
3. Perhaps the map is hexagons at the front lines only. A mix of hexagons and zones/cities.

Kind of not want you are exactly trying to do. But starting with a different map could solve a lot of the problems that already exist from using a pre existing one.

That would be perty sweet.

Admiral_Thrawn

@Nuclear:

I know you guys want to just the use the same map as Axis and Allies Europe. But perhaps the game could be better if it was just a really big map of Europe. Here is what I mean:
1. Just have Europe and North Africa on the Map. USA enters like in Axis and Allies D-Day, via a force chart.
2. With just having Europe it shoud be easy to have a bunch of towns and zones. In fact you could just give the towns IPC values and make the other zones in between worthless to stimulate trench warfare.
3. Perhaps the map is hexagons at the front lines only. A mix of hexagons and zones/cities.

Kind of not want you are exactly trying to do. But starting with a different map could solve a lot of the problems that already exist from using a pre existing one.

I agree. I am working on a hex based game that mixes BOTB and AAE using this map.
It’s SPI’s European Theater of Operations. Like many I think here, you want something more advanced than A&A but, you also want it not to be too complicated and also use the great plastic troops! It might be better if you could make your own specific map for a project like this but, I don’t have the money to print off a huge map of my design. ETO can be found for fairly cheap and can be easily converted to my game. I will be posting pictures and rules for this map soon.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Flashman

Can the USSR invade neutrals?

Remember that they invaded Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania before the Germans attacked them, not to mention various border skirmishes with Japan.

They should also be sending Germany IPCs while still at peace with them; this is historical and gives Germany a needed boost before the big expansions gave them a large income base. Without the security AND material income from the Hitler-Stalin pact the Germans could scarcely have embarked on their campaigns of conquest.

cyan

@Flashman:

Can the USSR invade neutrals?

Remember that they invaded Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania before the Germans attacked them, not to mention various border skirmishes with Japan.

They should also be sending Germany IPCs while still at peace with them; this is historical and gives Germany a needed boost before the big expansions gave them a large income base. Without the security AND material income from the Hitler-Stalin pact the Germans could scarcely have embarked on their campaigns of conquest.

they can invade nuetrals and SU is only collecting half of its income.

cyan

This is a great scenario and very realistic at the same time. It was long though so if you want to play it be prepared to play 6 years worth of fighting. I like it though. Many of the issues I had with this scenario have been taken care of. ( Italian navy etc) but the alliance structure should be alter to this
bitian and france are at war with germany.
Paris falls: Italy enters the war and 1 british destroyer is placed in the us convoy section.
Britian Falls: ussr enters the war (ussr defend on a -1 for all units before it enters the war)
us enters the war when 2 capitals are attacked.( note don’t have to be taken. this is because the us entered around the same time as the battle of Moscow)

Admiral_Thrawn

I agree with a lot of what Cyan is saying. The game was fun and different than the average A&A Europe game. I do have to point out that this wouldn’t be a very good 4 player game. If you are the Allies the most you should have is two people because it wouldn’t be very much fun if you played russia at the beginning because you are not at war for awhile. One person should play the U.K. and the other should play France, Russia, and US. The UK is always in the action and between playing the rest of the powers you shouldn’t be bored. When we played I was all the allies so I always had my hands full. There are some weird scenerios that come up when you play Russia. As Russia, once you build up your power you are trying to get in the war by forcing the Axis to attack you.(At least thats what happen with our game) I think instead of Russia not joining the war until attacked there maybe should be a time limit. Like so many rounds if you have not attacked Russia can attack you. Also, it is definitley cool to have Italy as a second Axis power. Watch out on the Russian Front for the one, two, punch that you don’t get in having just one Axis power. Still fun and very playable.

Gewehr

:lol: Those one, two attakes must have sucked for you! :lol:

AAE Scenario: Europe 1939 (France, USA, Germany, Britain, USSR, Italy)

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